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Continuation Part Seven: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

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What part of her story do you find absurd and deceptive bolint?

That she spent almost two hours there just to have a shower and drying her hair.
That she did not look into Filomena's room.
The bathmat boogie,
That she called her mother shortly after noon, of which there is no trace in the phone records.
etc ...
 
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That she spent almost two hours there just to have a shower and drying her here.
Where does she say this?

That she called her mother shortly after noon, of which there is no trace in the phone records.
Prosecutor Comodi said that it is in the logs. It's in the trial file. You don't believe Comodi told the truth?
 
I'm not dealing with that Nigerian widow again.... ugh. Last time it took forever to get the money she promised me. Come to think of it... hmmmm:(

You've missed your chance. Haha. She's now emailing me. In fact, the widows of 3 Nigerian generals emailed me in the past 24 hours asking for my bank account details. I'll be rich! Thank you, Marriott! :p
 
Simply by claiming that she was there and participated in the murder.

Why would she worry about that? I thought you said she didn't participate in the murder? That she was "just there" in the cottage?

I don't think she asked permission, but don't exclude it either.
We know that he liked her, he may have kid himself.

So you believe that Rudy murdered Meredith while Amanda was in the cottage and let Amanda a woman who could identify him just walk away? Seriously?

Is it not to worry about? She got indicted for much less accusations.

Actually, this is different, One, Amanda only came forward with Patric's name under interrogation.

Amanda would have been on the phone with the police the second after she got away from Rudy. Amanda comes from an environment where the police are there to help and protect. She may be frightened of Rudy, but she and Raffaele would have both been on the phone with the police after this happened. After all, Raffaele's own sister is a member of the Carbinieri.

What you are ignoring is the fact that there isn't a shred of evidence of Amanda being in that bedroom. Which even if there was, wouldn't necessarily be evidence of her involvement since one would guess that Amanda would have legitimate reasons to be in her roomie's bedroom.

You explain this by saying Amanda wasn't in Meredith's bedroom during the murder. (Well, at least we agree on that). But you have her in the "hallway? her own bedroom?? Where is Amanda and what is she doing during the murder?

And somehow Amanda knows that Rudy is there killing her roommate, and she is willing to keep her mouth shut about a guy she doesn't really know, and can't communicate with since Amanda's Italian is poor and Rudy's English is non-existent? And Rudy is going to let that same girl go because he "likes her" even though a word out of her will put him in jail for 30 years?

Think about it Bolint. Not only doesn't it make any sense at all, there isn't a shred of proof to support it. Is that enough to "convict" anyone for a crime? A theory without a shred of evidence to support it?
 
That she spent almost two hours there just to have a shower and drying her hair.

That she did not look into Filomena's room.
You would go snooping in your roommate's bedroom? Why??

The bathmat boogie,
That she called her mother shortly after noon, of which there is no trace in the phone records.
etc ...

What are you talking about? Amanda called her mother at 12:47, 1:24. 1.:27. 1:58 and 1:59.

Out of curiosity, how is a single point you have mentioned evidence of ANYTHING? While you may find it curious, how is any of it remotely worthy of being considered as incriminating? Would you honestly convict someone of murder based on this?
 
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You would go snooping in your roommate's bedroom? Why??[

If I find the entrance door open and nobody answers my loud call? Surely.
Especially if the bedroom door is open, anyway.

What are you talking about? Amanda called her mother at 12:47, 1:24. 1.:27. 1:58 and 1:59.

In her book she claims that leaving the house she first called her mother.
 
Bolint, You seem to have missed the salient point. It wasn't the case closed remark that I was asking about as a stand alone phrase but rather in combination with the "what we knew to be correct" and the "buckled" points of emphasis.

Besides the fact that the statements are totally vague and aren't really either an accusation or confession, why do think it would come into the chiefs head to make those remarks? Do you think he just felt the need to brag that they had figured out the case before Amanda told them what was correct?

Had he not made those remarks I would still be suspicious of how the interrogation went down as no recording or transcription has ever been produced. I also think the notes she gave the cops in the next two days made it very clear that she was disowning the statements.

If you were convinced that the statement was what the police asked her to say, what then would you believe?
 
If I find the entrance door open and nobody answers my loud call? Surely.
Especially if the bedroom door is open, anyway.

Maybe not everyone is a snoopy as you. And maybe Amanda's mind was "elsewhere"?
In her book she claims that leaving the house she first called her mother.[/QUOTE]

Maybe she's mistaken, that things are mixed up. Maybe she imagined it and that her mom's voice in her head telling her what to do and later she is sure that she actually talked to her mother that morning. Surely you can understand how with all that happened that morning that some of the details might be fuzzy or maybe not in the right order.

You still haven't addressed my point and my question. How is any of this actually incriminating? And would you seriously convict and send someone to prison for 30 years based on this?
 
Bolint's theory is that Knox finds out at nearly the last minute that she doesn't need to go to work so she goes to her apartment instead to cooperate in a murder with somebody for whom there is no significant evidence of any kind of significant acquaintance?

Or is Bolint's theory that Knox finds out at nearly the last minute that she doesn't need to go to work and she goes to her apartment where a murder (that she doesn't cooperate in) ensues by a man with whom there is no evidence of significant acquaintance and she makes the decision to not call the police and not to name the man when she talks to the police? And the murderer is so sure of Knox's loyalty that he decides to stick around town because he knows Knox won't tell the police about him?

And with either of these scenarios, after the murder Knox goes back to her boyfrend's place that she's been with for a week or so and gets him to cooperate in a conspiracy to protect a murderer by lying steadfastly about the alibi that results in his incarceration for years?
 
Antony, thank you for adding the above paragraph to your larger recent post. Thank you because it gives me the opportunity to add an observation that I have posted before, a month or so ago. My observation concerns Stefanoni's unique trip back to the crime scene to collect the bra clasp and what was going on with the police in mid-Descember when Stefanoni stepped in to rescue a bad case.

The Italian police began monitoring the phone conversatons of Sollecito family members from early November 2007. In all, they monitored 39,000 phone conversatons. The police and prosecution knew through intercepts in late November and early December 2007 that Raffaele's famiy was searching stores in different towns in Italy to find an example of the shoe model that Rudy wore. In early December the family found and acquired the shoe model. The sole of Rudy's shoe is noticeably different from Raffaele's shoe sole, proving that the police claim that bloody shoeprints at the crime scene were made by Raffaele's shoe is false. The police were about to be exposed and embarrased.

From early December when Raffaele's family found Rudy's shoe model, through mid-December and later, Raffaele's father, uncle, and sister repeatedly talked by phone about how and when to publicly reveal that police claims that Raffaele was at the crime scene are false.

On December 18 2007 police scientist Dr. Patricia Stefanoni, based in Rome, returned with her entourage to the crime scene in Perugia to collect the bra clasp. This was the specific purpose of the trip (defense were notified in advance). Stafanoni's entourage included lab assistants and camera and lighting technicians. The Perugia police were of course involved as well, since they control access to the "sealed" crime scene and provided support to Stefanoni and her crew. By arrangement, defense representatives were outside in a police van observing Stefanoni by live video. This was a triumphant event for Stefanoni to recover something sensational and key; she did not send an assitant instead. Don't know if police managers or Prosecutor Mignini feted/dined with her during her return to Perugia.

I contend that there is no way Dr. Stefanoni returned to Perugia with her entourage of assistants, supported by the Perugia police to reenter the "sealed" crime scene, set up lighting and video cameras inside the house, dealt with defense observers in the police monitor-equipped van, went into the house, located the missing bra clasp, triumphenly held it up for the camera, placed it down on the floor to be photographed in a different location from where it was actually recovered - no way did Stefanoni do all this on the off chance - the tiny, itsy bitsy chance that the bra clasp might, just might, have Raffaele's DNA on it. No way in hell was Stefanoni going to do all that on camera and discover in her lab that it was clean. I contend that Stefanoni planted Raffaele's DNA on the bra clasp.

What Stefanoni did not realize beforehand was that as she tested it her machine data output revealed that the bra clasp had DNA evidence of several other males on it. Those data records of other males are supressed (withheld) by Stefanoni. And to prevent the bra clasp from being examined a second time, Stefanoni "stored" the cloth-and-metal bra clasp by immersing it in liquid in a storage container, thus destroying the fabric and metal clasp.
:eye-poppi

If the bra clasp was planted, why did the prosecution have to resort to manufacturing evidence if they had a slam dunk case and a mountain of solid evidence against Amanda and Raffaele?
 
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Bolint's theory is that Knox finds out at nearly the last minute that she doesn't need to go to work so she goes to her apartment instead to cooperate in a murder with somebody for whom there is no significant evidence of any kind of significant acquaintance?

Or is Bolint's theory that Knox finds out at nearly the last minute that she doesn't need to go to work and she goes to her apartment where a murder (that she doesn't cooperate in) ensues by a man with whom there is no evidence of significant acquaintance and she makes the decision to not call the police and not to name the man when she talks to the police? And the murderer is so sure of Knox's loyalty that he decides to stick around town because he knows Knox won't tell the police about him?

And with either of these scenarios, after the murder Knox goes back to her boyfrend's place that she's been with for a week or so and gets him to cooperate in a conspiracy to protect a murderer by lying steadfastly about the alibi that results in his incarceration for years?

Seems something like this Dave, although Rudy didn't stay around town, he did flee to Germany. Remember?
 
Do you feel the collection of the forensic evidence is one of the most suspect aspect of this case due to the following :-

* The forensic evidence was collected after the arrests of Amanda and Raffaele. Normal procedure is to analyse forensic evidence and arrest a suspect if the evidence matches someone.

* The knife was picked at random from Raffaele's apartment and the only knife taken just happens to be the one used in the murder. No other knives are taken from Raffaele's apartment, Rudy's apartment or the cottage for testing.

* The bra clasp conveniently turns up when it is proved footprints in Meredith's room don't match Raffaele's shoes.

* The bra clasp is not collected and the luminol tests are not done until six weeks after the murder.

* When the luminol tests are done, the footprints of Laura and Filomena are not taken for comparison.
 
If the bra clasp was planted, why did the prosecution have to resort to manufacturing evidence if they had a slam dunk case and a mountain of solid evidence against Amanda and Raffaele?

The bra clasp was not planted, it was still there on the floor. All the other tests had been run already and they did not think they needed anything else against Raffaele because of the shoe print. When that was shown to be not his print after all they had to have something else to place him at the scene of the crime. That is when they decided to make another trip to the cottage.

The DNA showing up in Stefanoni's test, the whole theater collection of the bra clasp, and the other profiles that are almost certainly there from contamination, leads me to believe rubbing some of his DNA on the clasp is a very good possibility.
 
That she spent almost two hours there just to have a shower and drying her hair.

That is not correct. She said she left Raffaele's at 10:30 walked to the cottage showered, noticed the odd things, walked back to Raffaele's to eat, called Meredith's phone, called Filomena, called Meredith's English phone, returned to the cottage with Raffaele, looked around more and that is when they started calling around beginning at about 12:30. So that is your two hours and it certainly wasn't even close to being two hours taking a shower and drying her hair.

That she called her mother shortly after noon, of which there is no trace in the phone records.

I think you have this backwards. As was indicated earlier, Comodi made this claim and Amanda could not remember the call to her Mom at noon. The phone records show that call at 12:47, not noon.


Seriously? You are using etc as an argument?
 
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