Continuation Part Seven: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Dan O.]

My own view is that Rudy broke the window before or after the assault, but that Meredith allowed him to come into the house and he became interested in dominating her physically and sexually. I haven't seen much evidence of Rudy having walked through Filomena's room or the rest of the house.

Marry, how do you explain the sock drawer?

 

[JREF2010]

C&V negative control testimony, Google translation. This seems to proceed the way I remember it contemporaneously, in contrast to the way it was told by a poster here previously.

That was an interesting read. So there were other people, unknowns, other peaks on the chart of the bra clasp, and that to me proves contamination.

Or else, it means the prosecution needs to get looking for a couple more people and create some more theorys, like 5 people, or more, were arguing about the Rudys poop in the toilet and how Rudy didn't clean his own droppings and that lead to ....oh nevermind.

And the negative controls weren't there, either proving another lie of Stefonani or sloppy forensic work, either choice degrades her credibility.
The sloppy forensic work seems to have run rampant in this case, but when the public employees start lying to cover it up seems to really show a despicable trait of the pro-prosecution. Recently seeing Naopleoni and her bootlickers being busted, and Mignini's charges of dishonesty, it all seems to confirm bullying and threats is common for the Italian system.

 

[Grinder]

I neglected to say I thought Dan O's timeline is very well done and helpful.

While the tow truck left at 11;15 it was Curatolo's testimony that led Mignini et al. to move the TOD to 11:30 and that was only possible by altering his testimony by using the non-existent disco buses normal schedule. At least a Google read of his testimony leaves the distinct impression that he saw them from 9:30 to midnight. He never left his position and never looked up to find them missing. As was the case when he gave his original public testimony it was clear he gave the kids an alibi. Obviously any reasonable person knows that Curatolo never saw the kids that night or most likely ever.

It would be very helpful to get all those testimonies on Amanda's page translated

 

[Strozzi]

And where did those other male profiles on the bra clasp come from if not from contamination?

The other males' profiles may have been applied to the bra clasp when Stafanoni or other police wiped the clasp's hooks with an item they knew to contain Raffaele's DNA. Stefanoni or other police just didn't realize that the DNA of other males was also on the item used.

 

[RoseMontague]

I neglected to say I thought Dan O's timeline is very well done and helpful.

While the tow truck left at 11;15 it was Curatolo's testimony that led Mignini et al. to move the TOD to 11:30 and that was only possible by altering his testimony by using the non-existent disco buses normal schedule. At least a Google read of his testimony leaves the distinct impression that he saw them from 9:30 to midnight. He never left his position and never looked up to find them missing. As was the case when he gave his original public testimony it was clear he gave the kids an alibi. Obviously any reasonable person knows that Curatolo never saw the kids that night or most likely ever.

It would be very helpful to get all those testimonies on Amanda's page translated

About half of them I have Google translated so far, Hans got me some OCR's on some of the image files and I am working on those as well. Most have been posted at the first trial transcripts thread at IIP, will try to add some more this week.

 

[Grinder]

My own view is that Rudy broke the window before or after the assault, but that Meredith allowed him to come into the house and he became interested in dominating her physically and sexually. I haven't seen much evidence of Rudy having walked through Filomena's room or the rest of the house. Some posters here have suggested recently that Meredith's ersatz boyfriend, Giacomo, may have been indiscreet in talking about his sexual relations with Meredith.

First of all any guy that lives in a basement apartment, has giant holes in his ears and grows pot must be indiscreet. I have never heard him explain why he didn't take his girlfriend home to meet the parents on such a family holiday. From sources I understand that he was prone to play pranks and we all know what that leads to...murder.

My source also tells me he had a girlfriend back home and Meredith knew it.

On the rock throwing, I too believe Rudi threw it at one point or another. Just as I don't think the prosecution needs a single narrative, I don't believe that those that believe Rudi did it without Amanda and Raf need a unified theory.

He could have approached the cottage and knocked on the door of the boys' unit and the girls' unit and obviously received no reply. He could have done the aforementioned and then thrown the rock through the window and waited. He could have entered the cottage and closed the shutters (that Filomena had left open) before Meredith came home.

He could have thrown the rock, waited and been interrupted by Meredith who let him in.

It is even possible that the drunk as a skunk Meredith agreed to meet Rudi the night after the Halloween party and none of the british girls remembered or none wanted to besmirch her reputation. We know that Filomena and Laura requested that Amanda not mention the pot smoking.

And though not the most likely theory it is possible that Rudi was aggressive, Meredith had had enough and things escalated to an attack and murder. Then, Rudi thinking that she could have mentioned their 'date' to others needed a story and 'staged' the break-in in his favorite MO. As Charlie pointed out, Rudi wasn't the sharpest tack in the box as evidenced by his nursery school escapade.

The window was very difficult to see and almost impossible except by a pedestrian. A passenger in a car possibly could have gotten a fleeting glimpse if they were staring down the valley (where the barking dogs live).

No PGP has ever given a reasonable explanation as to why the kids would need a break-in and certainly never why they would use Rudi's MO.

Marry, how do you explain the sock drawer?

Could you expand on that?

 

[Grinder]

About half of them I have Google translated so far, Hans got me some OCR's on some of the image files and I am working on those as well. Most have been posted at the first trial transcripts thread at IIP, will try to add some more this week.

Perhaps they could be shared with Dan O and put on his Wiki. I don't read over a IIP. Is membership required to read the translations there?

ETA - Rose do you have a link to the RIS testimony from this appeal trial? Contentions have been made in every direction.

 

[MichaelB]

I believe the consensus view is that Rudy broke in to burglarize. He had a recent history of committing home burglaries, but not of assaults or rapes. He had reason to believe no one would be home that night because it was the beginning of a long holiday weekend -- for example, his friends, the guys from downstairs, were all going to be gone visiting their families. The cottage was probably dark when he first approached it because at that time no one was home. Meredith would be the only one to be there that night, and she arrived at 9 p.m.

The window he is suspected of breaking into is not that exposed; it is below street level, the street is not that busy and 8-9 is not early evening. Also, if he climbed in the window, he could have done it very quickly.

As for why he would assault someone who knew him, it is possible he had a false sense of confidence as a result of the fact that he had committed several crimes and not been prosecuted for them. He was well connected in town and may have felt immune to arrest.

My own view is that Rudy broke the window before or after the assault, but that Meredith allowed him to come into the house and he became interested in dominating her physically and sexually. I haven't seen much evidence of Rudy having walked through Filomena's room or the rest of the house. Some posters here have suggested recently that Meredith's ersatz boyfriend, Giacomo, may have been indiscreet in talking about his sexual relations with Meredith.

An important thing to keep in mind when pondering Rudy's motives is that we are talking about someone who was out of control, so his motives don't have to make sense.

Are you serious?

He admitted "leaning out the window" in Filomena's room. Breaking a 2nd story glass window with a rock was the same MO he used two weeks earlier.

How do you rationalize it?

 

[MichaelB]

Most likely already given by someone but it is from Amanda's compilation of testimonies etc. found here

As I said my post was from a Google translation. I have asked the Italian speakers, in particularly Briars and other PGP, to translate it to no avail.

The prosecution tries to fix what he is saying because they know it moves TOD beyond a reasonable time.

Thanks. Will read what the bum said soon as I get a chance.

 

[Matthew Best]

Not only are you new to the forum, you also claim earlier to be fresh to the whole discussion of the case, except for having read Raff's book. Yet you repeat a series of (discredited) assertions and arguments coming straight from the sources promoting the claims of AK and RS's alleged guilt in the murder. Why would people here accept that you have ever "initially believed otherwise"?

We've seen this kind of thing in the 9/11 subforum over and over again. A new poster comes on to the forum, announces that he's just started looking at the events of 9/11 and has a few questions. It is usually just a matter of a few pages before it is revealed that he is, in fact, a confirmed 9/11 Truther.

 

[Dan O.]

Marry, how do you explain the sock drawer?

Could you expand on that?

[imgl]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=597&pictureid=4167[/imgl]

I don't know what problems she had with Amanda, but I heard her complaining, so I got up and went to her room. I saw she was furious and she said- her exact words- "That whore of a doper." Heavy words for two people who were friends. Then I asked what had happened. She said she couldn't find her money and she showed me the drawer next to the bed where she also kept her lingerie. "Maybe it was a thief," I said. But we saw there was no sign of a break-in, neither inside nor outside the house. So it had to be someone from the house and she was complaining only about Amanda, and not about the other two girls who lived there. From there she went to Amanda's room to see if there were signs of forced entry in her room but there weren't any. Then she opened Amanda's drawer, and I saw her money wasn't there. Meredith knew where Amanda kept the money and she became )furious).

 

[Bill Williams]

We've seen this kind of thing in the 9/11 subforum over and over again. A new poster comes on to the forum, announces that he's just started looking at the events of 9/11 and has a few questions. It is usually just a matter of a few pages before it is revealed that he is, in fact, a confirmed 9/11 Truther.

I was about to make the same observation.

On IIP someone would show up saying they were coming to this new, things like they'd just read Raff's book... found it unbelievable and ha a few questions. Sometimes they claim indecision. ...

Six posts later they are writing from memory nuances of trial testimony!!! Which they believe proves guilt, when it does no such thing!!!

Sure enough all the worn guilter memes come up - sex on a train, the rape prank.

One thing no one does is try a comprehensive timeline, like one might do if they were new. Start with Dan o's timelime, try to make sense of evidence.

Oh yes, then there's all the reporting back to the hate sites!

I wish I had a nickel.....

 

[RoseMontague]

Perhaps they could be shared with Dan O and put on his Wiki. I don't read over a IIP. Is membership required to read the translations there?

ETA - Rose do you have a link to the RIS testimony from this appeal trial? Contentions have been made in every direction.

It is on Amanda's page (Barti Berni or something like that) image file, will work on a quick conversion translation.

 

[RoseMontague]

Not giving me a whole lot, trying to find the testimony, but here is what I have...

ETA, yep it looks like 242 pages of which this is just 15

 

[Chris_Halkides]

smoke and mirrors

HOWEVER, for quite a while I had a "where there's smoke, there's fire" theory.

"Where there's smoke, there is usually a smoke-making machine."* Put that into your pipe and smoke it, Bertrand Russell.

*This is sometimes thought to have been said by President Kennedy, but that attribution is uncertain.

 

[Grinder]

Not giving me a whole lot, trying to find the testimony, but here is what I have...

ETA, yep it looks like 242 pages of which this is just 15

I can't get the PDF to let me copy and paste. Is there a trick?

I'm trying to do page 77 to 82.

 

[AmyStrange]

About half of them I have Google translated so far, Hans got me some OCR's on some of the image files and I am working on those as well. Most have been posted at the first trial transcripts thread at IIP, will try to add some more this week.

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Rose, I want to personally thank you and everyone who has helped in doing all of this. It's an amazing amount of hard work and commitment and very valuable and important, at least I think so anyway.

My understanding is that the translating of all the docs related to all the trials is something that isn't exclusive to the PIP and that the PGP also has helped in this translation project and I extend my thanks to both camps for taking this on.

This was truly a co-operative effort by both camps

d

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[AmyStrange]

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"Where there's smoke, there is usually a smoke-making machine."* Put that into your pipe and smoke it, Bertrand Russell.

*This is sometimes thought to have been said by President Kennedy, but that attribution is uncertain.

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Nice turn of phrase Chris, but don't forget the mirrors. When I see smoke, I also think smoke and mirrors,

d

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[RoseMontague]

I can't get the PDF to let me copy and paste. Is there a trick?

I'm trying to do page 77 to 82.

ETA, I have this excerpt on a not very good but quick machine OCR will post shortly.

ETA, having problems uploading will work on it.

 

[Strozzi]

And the negative controls weren't there, either proving another lie of Stefonani or sloppy forensic work, either choice degrades her credibility.
The sloppy forensic work seems to have run rampant in this case, but when the public employees start lying to cover it up seems to really show a despicable trait of the pro-prosecution. Recently seeing Naopleoni and her bootlickers being busted, and Mignini's charges of dishonesty, it all seems to confirm bullying and threats is common for the Italian system.

What you wrote above applies as well to the interrogations. I will paraphrase what you wrote above and apply it to the interrogations:
The sloppy interrogation seems to have run rampant in this case, but when the public employees start lying to cover it up seems to really show a despicable trait of the pro-prosecution.