• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Continuation Part Seven: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

Status
Not open for further replies.
LBR is incorrect in saying the TOD was not brought up by the defense or Hellmann. It is covered in the Hellmann report at the link below. He bases the TOD primarily on the cell phone evidence (TOD before 10:13PM) It is also covered in the initial appeals by the defense and also in that portion of Raffaele's appeal dealing with the same cell phone data.

http://hellmannreport.wordpress.com/contents/reasons-for-the-decision/time-of-death/
 
If DNA doesn't float through the air why do labs have positive pressure hoods?

How much RS DNA in the bathroom?

Where from did Amanda bleed? (Even a nosebleed leaves visible traces).

The prosecution didn't claim the bathmat print matched RS, only compatible?

Why did the police chief De Felice say that his men were able to make Amanda buckle and tell them what they wanted knew to be correct when it wasn't correct? What do you think they knew to be correct before Amanda made her statement? Why does the calumnia conviction mean anything to do with the murder?

And where did those other male profiles on the bra clasp come from if not from contamination?
 
<snip>Obviously not. But I am also not a human forensic expert that can understand the variabilities found in post-mortem gastric emptying. Scientists disagree on many different subjects, and they all proclaim to use reliable scientific standards. The problem arises, when Bertrand Russell's quote is not at least minimally acknowledged.

After you first posted the quote by Bertrand Russell, the question of certitude as it relates to the pro-innocence side of the debate was addressed in at least these replies: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9774266&postcount=3099; http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9774320&postcount=3100; http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9774364&postcount=3103; http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9774371&postcount=3104; http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9774477&postcount=3108; http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9774859&postcount=3133

Two of the posts referred to the quote specifically, while the rest referred to the idea of the quote. That is not a minimal acknowledgment, that is a generous acknowledgment. Have you made a minimal acknowledgment of the messages most of these posters have tried to convey about why they trust their knowledge?
 
The now deceased heroin addicted drug dealing park bench bum that has managed to testify in 3 trials for the prosecution puts AK and RS at the basketball court until 11:30PM-to midnight.

Rose by Google but it would seem more like just before midnight or midnight

Do you remember what time it was when you saw them ?
ANSWER - I told him , I was on the bench to the
half-past nine , ten , I have been up to at midnight there.QUESTION - And these two guys when he saw them ?
ANSWER - Up to before midnight that I was a bit ' tired of reading, I had lit a cigarette , I look
always people passing , the movement that is important to us
Grimana square and then after I have not seen since.
QUESTION - So you saw them just before midnight and ...
ANSWER - The last time yes .
QUESTION - Then has not seen them anymore?
ANSWER - No.
 
After you first posted the quote by Bertrand Russell, the question of certitude as it relates to the pro-innocence side of the debate was addressed in at least these replies: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9774266&postcount=3099; http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9774320&postcount=3100; http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9774364&postcount=3103; http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9774371&postcount=3104; http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9774477&postcount=3108; http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9774859&postcount=3133

Two of the posts referred to the quote specifically, while the rest referred to the idea of the quote. That is not a minimal acknowledgment, that is a generous acknowledgment. Have you made a minimal acknowledgment of the messages most of these posters have tried to convey about why they trust their knowledge?

Read the quote carefully - “The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.”

I doubt he is saying that wise people aren't certain of many things.
 
Last edited:
1)AK's blood in the bathroom, multiple mixed DNA (AK &MK) in bathroom, no RG DNA in the bathroom
2)RG footprints go out the front door, not trail into the bathroom
3)Multiple mixed DNA in Filomena's room
4)Sollecito's footprint on bathmat
5)Bra clasp (DNA does not float through the air)
6)The calunnia conviction
7)Confession (large discrepancies in her interrogation experience, even given by herself)
8)etc.

...

No need to debunk the above. I'm sure in the thousands of posts on this forum, these points have been discussed endlessly and debunked.

Wow. Your knowledge of the case is so lacking that it's frightening you'd feel comfortable forming any type of opinion on their guilt or innocence.

I realize this post isn't particularly helpful, but what you said shocked me. Every reason you've proposed as supporting their guilt in your mind happens to be one of the weakest and most pathetic pieces of evidence in the case.
 
LBR said:
1)AK's blood in the bathroom, multiple mixed DNA (AK &MK) in bathroom, no RG DNA in the bathroom
This is a bathroom they had shared for the last couple of weeks. Are you claiming that someone had sterilized the bathroom in the hours before the murder, so as to be ready to receive incriminating evidence? Have you also seen the video the Scientific Police themselves took of their own collection methods? The one that garnered laughter in the court? It shows the wide swaths of samples taken from wide areas in the bathroom....

Amanda's blood was an isolated sample on the sink faucet, not mixed in with anything.

How on earth is any of this remotely incriminating?

LBR said:
2)RG footprints go out the front door, not trail into the bathroom{/quote]
Why then does Rudy G admit to going into the bathroom to get towels, the towels eventually found in Meredth's room. Was Rudy lying about going into the bathroom?


LBR said:
3)Multiple mixed DNA in Filomena's room
So? DNA of chimpanzees? Canaries? What are you talking about?
LBR said:
4)Sollecito's footprint on bathmat
It was not Sollecito's footprint on the bathmat.
LBR said:
5)Bra clasp (DNA does not float through the air)
First of all, DNA does fly through the air, as witnessed by the head to toe protective suits investigators wear. Second of all, this "explanation" by no means exhausts the means of contamination. Stefanoni herself testified at court that she could neither confrim or deny herself touching the clasp, after being shown the video of her (completely inappropriately) handling the clasp with an obviously dirty glove begore it was bagged.

LBR said:
6)The calunnia conviction
What this "proves" is that the ILE were successful in confusing a 20-year old foreigner who did not speak the language, with a translator who inserted herself into the interrogation as a "mediator" (her words) not a translator. Donnino even testified that she was proud of leading the people she "interpreted" for. She bragged about getting creative in her translations, apparently bored with mechanical straightforward translating so that people could understand what was being told to them....
LBR said:
7)Confession (large discrepancies in her interrogation experience, even given by herself)
You mean the "confession" which was ruled illegal by the iSC because it was collected with no lawyer and no videotaping, as mandated by law. And what exactly was "confessed to"? It matched nothing to do with the crime.
LBR said:
8)etc.
...

No need to debunk the above. I'm sure in the thousands of posts on this forum, these points have been discussed endlessly and debunked.

"Etc."???? This is the shortest rendering of "all the other evidence" I've seen. I'm not sure what it is you, yourself, are sure of, but the 7 points above have long since been debunked, and the 8th is a catch-all guilters always use at the end of a list of debunked evidence which means nothing.
 
Last edited:
Rose by Google but it would seem more like just before midnight or midnight

Do you remember what time it was when you saw them ?
ANSWER - I told him , I was on the bench to the
half-past nine , ten , I have been up to at midnight there.QUESTION - And these two guys when he saw them ?
ANSWER - Up to before midnight that I was a bit ' tired of reading, I had lit a cigarette , I look
always people passing , the movement that is important to us
Grimana square and then after I have not seen since.
QUESTION - So you saw them just before midnight and ...
ANSWER - The last time yes .
QUESTION - Then has not seen them anymore?
ANSWER - No.

What page # is this on Grinder? I haven't read him yet.
 
Questions for the pro AK camp:

So what is the consensus on Rudy's motive for breaking into 7 in the first place? Is it purely burglary or burglary and rape? Or is it burglary that just happens to lead to sexual assault that leads to murder? Or is it burglary that leads to murder with no intention of sexual assault?

Some reasons I find the break in theory hard to swallow:
- Most break in burglaries occur in the daytime when there is no chance of anyone being home because they are either at school or work. What makes Rudy think that no one is home? Even if he ascertains that by the lack of response after throwing the rock or simply knocking on the door, what makes him think that no one is going to walk in on him?
- Even if he is risking someone walking in on him, why risk it in place where the residents know him? He is breaking in at the riskiest time of someone walking in on him and the residents know him. Is this really something a burglar does, commit a crime during a time and place with where the risks of being caught and identified are least favorable to the burglar?
- The biggest factors where a burglar decides to break in are concealed entry point and easy getaway route. Why would RG break in in the most exposed are of the apartment, a window that faces the parking lot and a busy road with cars passing by? Suspecting he thought darkness gave him a bit more concealment, early evening is the busiest time of road traffic at night. I have to agree with Massei on this point.
- Why would you break in to the apartment in the most exposed area of the apartment and then assume that no one saw you? I mean, he was relaxed enough to take a poop in the bathroom, he must have felt some sense of security of not having been noticed, no? To take a poop, he must have thought he had no urgency to leave as soon as possible. Burglars want to limit their time in the house, no?
- If sexual assault was the motive, or afterthought, why commit on someone who knows you and can easily ID you, even if Rudy was wearing mask? He was a tall basketball player, Ivorian. Is a mask going to really hide his identity?

full disclosure: I am brand new to this forum, just read Honor Bound and parts of the Massei report and other websites and do not know the merits of this case as well as most on this forum. I came here because the case is utterly fascinating and needed to voice my own opinions and theories. I am leaning slightly toward some involvement/guilt of AK after initially believing otherwise. I am just trying to understand the arguments of both sides to make an informed opinion.
 
Questions for the pro AK camp:

So what is the consensus on Rudy's motive for breaking into 7 in the first place? Is it purely burglary or burglary and rape? Or is it burglary that just happens to lead to sexual assault that leads to murder? Or is it burglary that leads to murder with no intention of sexual assault?

Some reasons I find the break in theory hard to swallow:
- Most break in burglaries occur in the daytime when there is no chance of anyone being home because they are either at school or work. What makes Rudy think that no one is home? Even if he ascertains that by the lack of response after throwing the rock or simply knocking on the door, what makes him think that no one is going to walk in on him?
- Even if he is risking someone walking in on him, why risk it in place where the residents know him? He is breaking in at the riskiest time of someone walking in on him and the residents know him. Is this really something a burglar does, commit a crime during a time and place with where the risks of being caught and identified are least favorable to the burglar?
- The biggest factors where a burglar decides to break in are concealed entry point and easy getaway route. Why would RG break in in the most exposed are of the apartment, a window that faces the parking lot and a busy road with cars passing by? Suspecting he thought darkness gave him a bit more concealment, early evening is the busiest time of road traffic at night. I have to agree with Massei on this point.
- Why would you break in to the apartment in the most exposed area of the apartment and then assume that no one saw you? I mean, he was relaxed enough to take a poop in the bathroom, he must have felt some sense of security of not having been noticed, no? To take a poop, he must have thought he had no urgency to leave as soon as possible. Burglars want to limit their time in the house, no?
- If sexual assault was the motive, or afterthought, why commit on someone who knows you and can easily ID you, even if Rudy was wearing mask? He was a tall basketball player, Ivorian. Is a mask going to really hide his identity?

full disclosure: I am brand new to this forum, just read Honor Bound and parts of the Massei report and other websites and do not know the merits of this case as well as most on this forum. I came here because the case is utterly fascinating and needed to voice my own opinions and theories. I am leaning slightly toward some involvement/guilt of AK after initially believing otherwise. I am just trying to understand the arguments of both sides to make an informed opinion.


Hi and welcome!

I don't know as much about the case as most of the posters on this board either.

It was a Italian holiday, and Guede could reasonably assume no one would be home. In fact, of all the housemates up and down, only one was actually there that night. Guede could also assume that the rent money would be there for the taking, which it was. There was a great escape route if he was caught, right down the hillside in back of the cottage. The area under the window is very unexposed. The time risk of entry was very short. The street is not that busy.

Guede in his Skype call says "I was in the bathroom, in the bathroom maybe five minutes. So, I really had to take this ◊◊◊◊, but then I heard a scream, but let me tell you, a really loud scream, so loud that according to me, if anyone was passing by, nearby, they would have heard this scream, because she screamed so loud.."

I think Guede was in the bathroom because he really had to take this ◊◊◊◊.

I don't think sexual assault was the motive.

I have a basic question for you. As you know, Knox was scheduled to work that night, and Sollecito was supposed to help a relation. By shear coincidence, both obligations were canceled. At 9:15 ( I think), Knox and Sollecito finished watching Amelie, one of the sweetest movies every made.

I am sure you have watched interviews with Knox and Sollecito. There has been plenty of opportunity to observe their behavior. See Knox's return to the US for example. A few days before the murder, Knox went to a chocolate festival with her friend Merdith.

My question is, why would Knox and Sollecito , seemingly very nice, peaceful, and sane, on the spur of the moment decide to leave their happy home (if you get my drift), meet up with a virtual stranger, and murder their friend? Neither have a criminal record, or history of violence, or being out of control. How could it happen that this one time not one but two people essentially losing their minds, becoming outrageously violent, and slaughtering their friend.

Why? You speak of the odds of burglary, what are the odds of that happening?

Also, in terms of longshots, you might want to check out the odds of women using a knife to commit murder.

To me the crime makes no sense, and the prosecution's answer, "so what?", I find lacking in the extreme.

Again, welcome.
 
Questions for the pro AK camp:

So what is the consensus on Rudy's motive for breaking into 7 in the first place? Is it purely burglary or burglary and rape? Or is it burglary that just happens to lead to sexual assault that leads to murder? Or is it burglary that leads to murder with no intention of sexual assault?

Some reasons I find the break in theory hard to swallow:
- Most break in burglaries occur in the daytime when there is no chance of anyone being home because they are either at school or work. What makes Rudy think that no one is home? Even if he ascertains that by the lack of response after throwing the rock or simply knocking on the door, what makes him think that no one is going to walk in on him?
- Even if he is risking someone walking in on him, why risk it in place where the residents know him? He is breaking in at the riskiest time of someone walking in on him and the residents know him. Is this really something a burglar does, commit a crime during a time and place with where the risks of being caught and identified are least favorable to the burglar?
- The biggest factors where a burglar decides to break in are concealed entry point and easy getaway route. Why would RG break in in the most exposed are of the apartment, a window that faces the parking lot and a busy road with cars passing by? Suspecting he thought darkness gave him a bit more concealment, early evening is the busiest time of road traffic at night. I have to agree with Massei on this point.
- Why would you break in to the apartment in the most exposed area of the apartment and then assume that no one saw you? I mean, he was relaxed enough to take a poop in the bathroom, he must have felt some sense of security of not having been noticed, no? To take a poop, he must have thought he had no urgency to leave as soon as possible. Burglars want to limit their time in the house, no?
- If sexual assault was the motive, or afterthought, why commit on someone who knows you and can easily ID you, even if Rudy was wearing mask? He was a tall basketball player, Ivorian. Is a mask going to really hide his identity?

full disclosure: I am brand new to this forum, just read Honor Bound and parts of the Massei report and other websites and do not know the merits of this case as well as most on this forum. I came here because the case is utterly fascinating and needed to voice my own opinions and theories. I am leaning slightly toward some involvement/guilt of AK after initially believing otherwise. I am just trying to understand the arguments of both sides to make an informed opinion.

I believe the consensus view is that Rudy broke in to burglarize. He had a recent history of committing home burglaries, but not of assaults or rapes. He had reason to believe no one would be home that night because it was the beginning of a long holiday weekend -- for example, his friends, the guys from downstairs, were all going to be gone visiting their families. The cottage was probably dark when he first approached it because at that time no one was home. Meredith would be the only one to be there that night, and she arrived at 9 p.m.

The window he is suspected of breaking into is not that exposed; it is below street level, the street is not that busy and 8-9 is not early evening. Also, if he climbed in the window, he could have done it very quickly.

As for why he would assault someone who knew him, it is possible he had a false sense of confidence as a result of the fact that he had committed several crimes and not been prosecuted for them. He was well connected in town and may have felt immune to arrest.

My own view is that Rudy broke the window before or after the assault, but that Meredith allowed him to come into the house and he became interested in dominating her physically and sexually. I haven't seen much evidence of Rudy having walked through Filomena's room or the rest of the house. Some posters here have suggested recently that Meredith's ersatz boyfriend, Giacomo, may have been indiscreet in talking about his sexual relations with Meredith.

An important thing to keep in mind when pondering Rudy's motives is that we are talking about someone who was out of control, so his motives don't have to make sense.
 
Last edited:
Questions for the pro AK camp:

So what is the consensus on Rudy's motive for breaking into 7 in the first place? Is it purely burglary or burglary and rape? Or is it burglary that just happens to lead to sexual assault that leads to murder? Or is it burglary that leads to murder with no intention of sexual assault?

It seems most likely that Rudy was after the rent money, and was surprised by Meredith's return to the previously empty house. So burglary, that turns into sexual assault, that turns into murder.

Some reasons I find the break in theory hard to swallow:
- Most break in burglaries occur in the daytime when there is no chance of anyone being home because they are either at school or work. What makes Rudy think that no one is home? Even if he ascertains that by the lack of response after throwing the rock or simply knocking on the door, what makes him think that no one is going to walk in on him?

We would have to be able to read Rudy's mind to know, but since he knew some people who lived in the downstairs flat possibly he had information leading him to think that it was a good bet everyone was away.

- Even if he is risking someone walking in on him, why risk it in place where the residents know him? He is breaking in at the riskiest time of someone walking in on him and the residents know him. Is this really something a burglar does, commit a crime during a time and place with where the risks of being caught and identified are least favorable to the burglar?

A reasonably plausible hypothesis is that he was desperate for money, knew the layout of the house, knew there was a fair chance that there was rent money in cash to be had, and took a chance.

Rudy had no means of support other than crime that we know of.

- The biggest factors where a burglar decides to break in are concealed entry point and easy getaway route. Why would RG break in in the most exposed are of the apartment, a window that faces the parking lot and a busy road with cars passing by? Suspecting he thought darkness gave him a bit more concealment, early evening is the busiest time of road traffic at night. I have to agree with Massei on this point.

This issue has been discussed to death here, and both approaches have significant positives and negatives. The approach he chose gave him the best opportunity to flee if the rock raised any alarm, and he was less exposed from the "busy road with cars passing by" than guilters like to make out. (It was also a pretty damned quiet road as we know from the surveillance footage).

The pro-guilt idea that it's absolutely certain that anyone would choose the back entrance is not well supported. Also why on Earth would anyone stage a break-in that made no sense?

- Why would you break in to the apartment in the most exposed area of the apartment and then assume that no one saw you? I mean, he was relaxed enough to take a poop in the bathroom, he must have felt some sense of security of not having been noticed, no? To take a poop, he must have thought he had no urgency to leave as soon as possible. Burglars want to limit their time in the house, no?

Some burglars like Rudy, appear to get off on making free with other poeple's stuff, raiding their fridge and taking a dump in their loo. Others are professionals who are in and out quickly. It's the fallacy of composition to want to create a single stereotypical burglar and argue that any burglar who deviates from your stereotype is a near-impossibility.

- If sexual assault was the motive, or afterthought, why commit on someone who knows you and can easily ID you, even if Rudy was wearing mask? He was a tall basketball player, Ivorian. Is a mask going to really hide his identity?

I guess if you plan to kill them afterwards that solves the problem.

full disclosure: I am brand new to this forum, just read Honor Bound and parts of the Massei report and other websites and do not know the merits of this case as well as most on this forum. I came here because the case is utterly fascinating and needed to voice my own opinions and theories. I am leaning slightly toward some involvement/guilt of AK after initially believing otherwise. I am just trying to understand the arguments of both sides to make an informed opinion.

The very short version of the pro-innocence case is simply that evidence from Raffaele's computer which both the prosecution and defence agree on places Knox and Sollecito at home until 21:45 or so, and Meredith's time of death was almost certainly 21:10 or so. Rudy was definitely well away from the cottage with Meredith's mobile phones by 22:13, as we know from mobile phone records.

There's simply no time for Knox and Sollecito to be involved.

The reason Mignini, Massei and Christiani went for the absurd 23:45 time of death in the original conviction was that witnesses the prosecution case could not do without, or unimpeachable witnesses, collectively made it impossible to shoehorn Knox and Sollecito into the narrative if Meredith died any earlier. That has remained true.
 
The very short version of the pro-innocence case is simply that evidence from Raffaele's computer which both the prosecution and defence agree on places Knox and Sollecito at home until 21:45 or so, and Meredith's time of death was almost certainly 21:10 or so. Rudy was definitely well away from the cottage with Meredith's mobile phones by 22:13, as we know from mobile phone records.

There's simply no time for Knox and Sollecito to be involved.

Since when are 2 people required to be on a computer for it to have activity?
 
<snip>The very short version of the pro-innocence case is simply that evidence from Raffaele's computer which both the prosecution and defence agree on places Knox and Sollecito at home until 21:45 or so, and Meredith's time of death was almost certainly 21:10 or so. Rudy was definitely well away from the cottage with Meredith's mobile phones by 22:13, as we know from mobile phone records.

There's simply no time for Knox and Sollecito to be involved.<snip>

Since when are 2 people required to be on a computer for it to have activity?

You can try to put Amanda at the crime scene if you want, but then you have to explain why she left no evidence and why Rudy said she wasn't there.
 
Questions for the pro AK camp:

So what is the consensus on Rudy's motive for breaking into 7 in the first place? Is it purely burglary or burglary and rape? Or is it burglary that just happens to lead to sexual assault that leads to murder? Or is it burglary that leads to murder with no intention of sexual assault?

Some reasons I find the break in theory hard to swallow:
- Most break in burglaries occur in the daytime when there is no chance of anyone being home because they are either at school or work. What makes Rudy think that no one is home? Even if he ascertains that by the lack of response after throwing the rock or simply knocking on the door, what makes him think that no one is going to walk in on him?
- Even if he is risking someone walking in on him, why risk it in place where the residents know him? He is breaking in at the riskiest time of someone walking in on him and the residents know him. Is this really something a burglar does, commit a crime during a time and place with where the risks of being caught and identified are least favorable to the burglar?
- The biggest factors where a burglar decides to break in are concealed entry point and easy getaway route. Why would RG break in in the most exposed are of the apartment, a window that faces the parking lot and a busy road with cars passing by? Suspecting he thought darkness gave him a bit more concealment, early evening is the busiest time of road traffic at night. I have to agree with Massei on this point.
- Why would you break in to the apartment in the most exposed area of the apartment and then assume that no one saw you? I mean, he was relaxed enough to take a poop in the bathroom, he must have felt some sense of security of not having been noticed, no? To take a poop, he must have thought he had no urgency to leave as soon as possible. Burglars want to limit their time in the house, no?
- If sexual assault was the motive, or afterthought, why commit on someone who knows you and can easily ID you, even if Rudy was wearing mask? He was a tall basketball player, Ivorian. Is a mask going to really hide his identity?

full disclosure: I am brand new to this forum, just read Honor Bound and parts of the Massei report and other websites and do not know the merits of this case as well as most on this forum. I came here because the case is utterly fascinating and needed to voice my own opinions and theories. I am leaning slightly toward some involvement/guilt of AK after initially believing otherwise. I am just trying to understand the arguments of both sides to make an informed opinion.

Why did Guede break into a school and then stick around until people showed up in the morning and called the police? The guy was a loser, a dumb-ass, bungling criminal.

I am always amazed that people examine what really happened, which has countless precedents, and reject it because it doesn't seem logical. But they suspend their disbelief to imagine that Amanda and Raffaele, with no criminal history, suddenly decided to team up with Guede and slaughter Meredith for no reason at all.
 
Why does she have to be involved in the actual murder and be present when the murder took place to have involvement?
 
Why does she have to be involved in the actual murder and be present when the murder took place to have involvement?

Whatever the level of involvement, you have got to have evidence of it before accusing someone of it. Suspicion can't be based just on a feeling.
 
Why did Guede break into a school and then stick around until people showed up in the morning and called the police? The guy was a loser, a dumb-ass, bungling criminal.

I am always amazed that people examine what really happened, which has countless precedents, and reject it because it doesn't seem logical. But they suspend their disbelief to imagine that Amanda and Raffaele, with no criminal history, suddenly decided to team up with Guede and slaughter Meredith for no reason at all.

Who said I believed Amanda and Raffaele were involved in slaughtering Meredth? That is what I actually don't get about the guilt/innocent sides and these argurments. Seems either they both had to be in the room with Rudy inflicting the wounds on MK or they were both at Raffaele's. Isn't there an almost limitless range of possibilities and levels of involvement?? I never said AK and Raffaele were in MK's room with Rudy and I actually believe that were not involved in the actual murder.
 
Questions for the pro AK camp:

So what is the consensus on Rudy's motive for breaking into 7 in the first place? Is it purely burglary or burglary and rape? Or is it burglary that just happens to lead to sexual assault that leads to murder? Or is it burglary that leads to murder with no intention of sexual assault?

Some reasons I find the break in theory hard to swallow:
- Most break in burglaries occur in the daytime when there is no chance of anyone being home because they are either at school or work. What makes Rudy think that no one is home? Even if he ascertains that by the lack of response after throwing the rock or simply knocking on the door, what makes him think that no one is going to walk in on him?
- Even if he is risking someone walking in on him, why risk it in place where the residents know him? He is breaking in at the riskiest time of someone walking in on him and the residents know him. Is this really something a burglar does, commit a crime during a time and place with where the risks of being caught and identified are least favorable to the burglar?
- The biggest factors where a burglar decides to break in are concealed entry point and easy getaway route. Why would RG break in in the most exposed are of the apartment, a window that faces the parking lot and a busy road with cars passing by? Suspecting he thought darkness gave him a bit more concealment, early evening is the busiest time of road traffic at night. I have to agree with Massei on this point.
- Why would you break in to the apartment in the most exposed area of the apartment and then assume that no one saw you? I mean, he was relaxed enough to take a poop in the bathroom, he must have felt some sense of security of not having been noticed, no? To take a poop, he must have thought he had no urgency to leave as soon as possible. Burglars want to limit their time in the house, no?
- If sexual assault was the motive, or afterthought, why commit on someone who knows you and can easily ID you, even if Rudy was wearing mask? He was a tall basketball player, Ivorian. Is a mask going to really hide his identity?

full disclosure: I am brand new to this forum, just read Honor Bound and parts of the Massei report and other websites and do not know the merits of this case as well as most on this forum. I came here because the case is utterly fascinating and needed to voice my own opinions and theories. I am leaning slightly toward some involvement/guilt of AK after initially believing otherwise. I am just trying to understand the arguments of both sides to make an informed opinion.

You could say exactly the same about staging? Why would they choose such an unlikely entrance point to stage and why would they break a window that was so easily seen from the road - especially with a body in the house? There were problems with locking the main door, why not just use that?

Unlike Guede, Amanda and Raffaele had no history of breaking into second story windows and would have been unlikely to choose such a high window to stage a burglary.
 
Last edited:
Who said I believed Amanda and Raffaele were involved in slaughtering Meredth? That is what I actually don't get about the guilt/innocent sides and these argurments. Seems either they both had to be in the room with Rudy inflicting the wounds on MK or they were both at Raffaele's. Isn't there an almost limitless range of possibilities and levels of involvement?? I never said AK and Raffaele were in MK's room with Rudy and I actually believe that were not involved in the actual murder.

But that is what they were legally accused of and convicted of. What do you think they could have been accused of and tried for instead?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom