Moderated What Caused the Plane Shaped Hole

[Robrob]

We're talking about the North Tower, you do know this don't you?

Here's a good diagram of the flight paths. Please elaborate as to your confusion?

 

[DGM]

Seriously, I'll write to Purdue, but you need to tell me what format you want. Bar chart? Half inch tape? Doctoral thesis?

Why bother?

He hasn't shown the need to go through the trouble. I can get the data if he shows a legitimate need (a source through WPI).

The ball is in his court.

 

[beachnut]

The damage evidence indicates something other than a plane struck, and from a completely different direction than what we were shown on the TeeVee.

No plane = no hijackers.

Well golly gee, we have the hijacker, but they were only murderers, DNA for Flight 77 and 93.

Nothing you say is true. And pre-debunked. Is this the best the school of hard knocks produces? Exactly where did the hard knocks hit you?

 

[yankee451]

Yes, and you ignored the answers.

Why would this not be consistent with a 767-200 hitting the building.

Got something better than your (admitted) layperson opinion?

Why should we believe you?

I'm speaking to laypeople, therefore it is appropriate I use language we can all understand. The damage is directional, but not in the direction the jet was traveling:

in addition to the directional damage, there is the difference in size from the little "pinch" on the left with the larger gash on the right. Last I checked a jet's wing was pretty uniform from left to right.

http://yankee451.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/left-side-right-side-comparison1.png

Once again, I've changed this oversized image to a link because its size messes up the format and readability of the thread. Either resize it to an appropriate size or stop posting it as a hotlink and use a regular link instead.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: LashL

Any pilots out there want to venture a guess as to the thickness of a 767-200 wing tip? I don't know, I'm asking.

 

[yankee451]

Why bother?

He hasn't shown the need to go through the trouble. I can get the data if he shows a legitimate need (a source through WPI).

The ball is in his court.

I'd like all of it in digital format please. But you won't write and if you do, they won't give it to you.

 

[Robrob]

I'm speaking to laypeople, therefore it is appropriate I use language we can all understand. The damage is directional, but not in the direction the jet was traveling:

Since the planes weren't traveling precisely N-S, your point would be?

in addition to the directional damage, there is the difference in size from the little "pinch" on the left with the larger gash on the right. Last I checked a jet's wing was pretty uniform from left to right.

Since the plane did not strike perfectly flat, your point?



Please elaborate on your belief the hole should have been a perfectly symmetrical cut out of the aircraft.

I'd like all of it in digital format please. But you won't write and if you do, they won't give it to you.

Why are we responsible for your homework? If you don't believe the study, it should be quite easy for you to request the data.

Please elaborate on your belief such studies routinely release all their raw data?

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

I'd like all of it in digital format please. But you won't write and if you do, they won't give it to you.

As opposed what, lollypops? You have no clue what you're even talking about.

 

[yankee451]

Well golly gee, we have the hijacker, but they were only murderers, DNA for Flight 77 and 93.

Nothing you say is true. And pre-debunked. Is this the best the school of hard knocks produces? Exactly where did the hard knocks hit you?

So you'd suggest ignoring the evidence at the scene of the crime and believing the "proof" used to justify America's longest war; proof provided by the people who profit by it?

Good plan.

 

[yankee451]

As opposed what, lollypops? You have no clue what you're even talking about.

There are finite element analyses that don't require a super-computer to run.

Here's a start:

http://yankee451.com/2013/12/23/shanksville-crater-finite-element-analysis/

 

[beachnut]

So you'd suggest ignoring the evidence at the scene of the crime and believing the "proof" used to justify America's longest war by the people who profit by it?

Good plan.

Crime? You can't figure out RADAR, or aircraft impacts, who can you figure out the crime?

I have the evidence you are making up lies.

While you SPAM us with delusions you have on 911, and lie about the aircraft, you could fold to help science. Are you anti-science, are you against doing something good? You spread a lot of lies, can you help out Team JREF?
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154
No?
If you sign up at least your waste of time in the Conspiracy Theories section will not be only posting lies about 911 and mocking those who died on 911.

It is ironic you have such great reality based news why you can't post this in the science section, or current events? Why do you think your best work is labeled Conspiracy Theories? lol, you do debunk yourself by posting in this section.

 

[yankee451]

Since the planes weren't traveling precisely N-S, your point would be?
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_5245852db1b3265618.png[/qimg]


Since the plane did not strike perfectly flat, your point?
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_5245852db1e8e584ea.gif[/qimg]


Please elaborate on your belief the hole should have been a perfectly symmetrical cut out of the aircraft.
[qimg]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/__Exl9-i4mCs/TCe0S5imivI/AAAAAAAAAdw/4z7nkkIyEjY/s1600/Wile%2BE%2BCoyote%2Bhits%2Brock%2Bbottom.JPG[/qimg]

Why are we responsible for your homework? If you don't believe the study, it should be quite easy for you to request the data.

Please elaborate on your belief such studies routinely release all their raw data?

We're talking about the North Tower Gash, please try to keep up.

From NIST NCSTAR1 WTC Investigation p. 20:

The aircraft flew almost straight toward the north
tower, banked approximately 25 degrees to the left (i.e.,
the right wing elevated relative to the left wing) and
descended at an angle of about 10 degrees at impact.
Moving at about 440 mph, the nose hit the exterior of the tower at the 96
th
floor.

Here's MIT's version of it:

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

There are finite element analyses that don't require a super-computer to run.

Here's a start:

http://yankee451.com/2013/12/23/shanksville-crater-finite-element-analysis/

Holy crap, you think a page of math symbols you don't understand are a "finite element analysis?" And gave him money for that? Good grief.

Apparently this is one of those "teaching algebra to goldfish" threads.

 

[yankee451]

Holy crap, you think a page of math symbols you don't understand are a "finite element analysis?" And gave him money for that? Good grief.

Apparently this is one of those "teaching algebra to goldfish" threads.

Then point me to the link of the math that proves the Jet did what we were told. You behave like DGM and don't think the math is necessary, that the TeeVee was all the proof you need.

 

[DGM]

I'm speaking to laypeople, therefore it is appropriate I use language we can all understand. The damage is directional, but not in the direction the jet was traveling:

So you're capable of technical discussion but you choose to dumb it down so we'll understand? Hows that working for you?

I'd like all of it in digital format please. But you won't write and if you do, they won't give it to you.

Exactly what is digital format in this case?

 

[yankee451]

So you're capable of technical discussion but you choose to dumb it down so we'll understand? Hows that working for you?




Exactly what is digital format in this case?

Anything you can provide, any format you can muster. How about that? Will you give me the link now?

 

[DGM]

You behave like DGM and don't think the math is necessary, that the TeeVee was all the proof you need.

Why do you lie? I've been asking you for math and you can't produce it.

Is it only important when you ask?

 

[DGM]

Anything you can provide, any format you can muster. How about that? Will you give me the link now?

Have you given me a good reason to ask?

Why do you think their work was to prove a plane hit the tower?

You're a no-planer. Why would we care what you think?

 

[Jack by the hedge]

The damage is directional, but not in the direction the jet was traveling:

in addition to the directional damage, there is the difference in size from the little "pinch" on the left with the larger gash on the right. Last I checked a jet's wing was pretty uniform from left to right.

When a column appears bent to the right in that photograph, how do you ascertain to what extent it was really bent to the right and to what extent it was actually bent inwards?

The photo does not appear to have been taken from a point perpendicular to the face of the building. Do you know where it was taken from and at what angle to the building?

Also, I already pointed out that your comparison of the two wingtip imprints is bogus because your photo does not include the impression of the starboard wingtip. Several feet of wing damage are cropped out of that photo.

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

Then point me to the link of the math that proves the Jet did what we were told.

What "the math" do you think would exist as a link? Your question proves you have no freaking clue what you're asking for.

The modeled the entire freaking thing in a computer using virtual objects, built to the actual dimensions and mechanical specifications of the building components and plane parts then ran one into the other mathematically at a resolution .00001 seconds.

Any FEA generates a tremendous pile of numbers. Then the researcher has to sift through those numbers with, usually, purpose built programs to find some specific answer. The Purdue FEA data was then fed into a purpose-built translation tool that generated computer image versions of the virtual objects.

QUOTE]
You behave like DGM and don't think the math is necessary, that the TeeVee was all the proof you need.[/QUOTE]

Ad hom, strawman, attempt to rile the respondent. Penalty, 10 yards. No first down.

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

Anything you can provide, any format you can muster. How about that? Will you give me the link now?

I'm resisting the temptation to post a rickroll at this point in the conversation. You don't know what FEA is and what it does. Asking for "the link" to "the FEA" is stupid.