Continuation Part Seven: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Mary_H]

I live in the US and I don't see any great interest in this case.

Have you noticed any interest on JREF?

 

[Chris_Halkides]

pseudo-Wiki

I was wondering what some of you think about the large differences in translation regarding the Guede-Beneditti Skype conversation by AMK (would that be Amanda Marie Knox?), and the one on the Meredith wiki?

Amanda writes: “Rudy Hermann says: (7:11:19PM) I was in the bathroom when it happened. I tried to stop it but I couldn't do anything. Amanda had nothing to do with it.”

On the wiki site, it says: “RG: It could have been Amanda, it could have been . . . anyone.”

Very different perspectives.

The pseudo-wiki in question has misled the unwary by posting many falsehoods, such as those involving the photo of a knife that appeared in the Daily Telegraph. In addition, when these...errors...have been pointed out to Edward McCall, neither he nor anyone else has remedied them. The credibility of that website should be judged accordingly.

 

[Bill Williams]

The pseudo-wiki in question has misled the unwary by posting many falsehoods, such as those involving the photo of a knife that appeared in the Daily Telegraph. In addition, when these...errors...have been pointed out to Edward McCall, neither he nor anyone else has remedied them. The credibility of that website should be judged accordingly.

The whole point of a wiki is its editability. It says all I need to know that when an error (I mean it's bound to have a few just in normal times!) crops up, it can be fixed.

That wiki is now the equivalent of the Wikipedia article on "The Murder of Meredith Kercher", where people contributing from the innocence side were complained about and banned. It took the personal intervention of no less than Jimbo Wales to remedy it, and a senior Wikipedia editor was assigned. There were no less than 35+ "talk pages" generated by BRMull alone! Pages!

It's why many believe that this wiki in question is BRMull project - posing as Edward McCall, whoever that is. The two obsessions the fellow had were Wikipedia and saying slutty things about Amanda Knox.

 

[Katody Matrass]

Joh Alwood.

I found this old post of mine and would like Briars to see what her leader at PMF said:

Originally Posted by Grinder View Post
SB wrote this today:



This is a great example of the PR effort made by PGP. The style here is her pervasive approach of sophistry.

She writes "The first person to mention this prank did so in the comments section of the Seattle Stranger very early on."

Of course, except for SB and her band of merry followers nobody mentioned this prank except to say that it had no validity.

Then she says "I contacted the guy (I think his screen name was "joh" and he confirmed the story, saying he had heard it from one of AK's roommates in the house where the rock throwing party took place."

She contacts a commenter and gets the lowdown that it was hearsay but manages to call the noise ticket party "the rock throwing party", isn't she clever.

If you'd like to check him out his link still works - just search the link for joh

http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/12/end_of_an_affair

She claims she tried to contact the guy that told the guy but too common a name. The guy had said she got friends to dress up and break into her (Amanda's apartment) and harass her roommate. So the guy didn't actually see the prank but HE also got it from hearsay. But the big and decisive fact is that FOA NEVER DENIED IT. Also, did Amanda ever live in an apartment? I thought she went from dorm to house.

"No one in the FOA has ever denied this story, which is about all that can be said. Incidentally, I don't know that this prank occurred on Halloween. It was said that AK and fellow pranksters wore ski masks and "kidnapped" someone in their dorm, who was terrified by this joke."
The actual comment said it happened in an apartment, but what the heck. I guess that they not denying it proves she murdered Meredith.

If anybody from the other side is reading this please go to the link and read the actual comment and then go to JOH's link. Reassess what your leader is poisoning you with and figure out who is drinking the Kool-Aid.
​

Thank you. Most interesting

I wonder what prompted Joh to mostly remove his "Alwood" online presence and reinvent himself as Joh Oso.

http://insanity.klout.com/joh_oso

 

[smkovalinksy]

Giacomo Silenzi is a guy who, it appears to me (i) did not treat Kercher respectfully/used her for sex, (ii) was into drugs somewhat seriously, (iii) hung around with at least one criminal, i.e., Rudy Guede, and (iv) looks like a jerk.

In short, Silenzi is what I would call a douche. A terrible choice for a boyfriend. I think that most fathers would recognize the type, and the threat, if their daughter ever came home with someone like this, and would attempt some sort of protective action. Well, at least I know that I would.

Now, there is another thing about douches like this. These people talk in order to make themselves look better, cooler, whatever. I believe that there is a substantial chance that this guy talked with his friends about his sexual exploits with Kercher. Indeed, one of the posts above makes it seem that the friends were aware of the anal sex. Rudy could have been, too.

Not only that, but it is certainly possible that Rudy knew from casual conversation with Silenzi or the other boys downstairs that their apartment would be vacant that weekend, and he could even have known the plans of the girls upstairs. He could have believed that the upstairs apartment was a good target for burglary, and maybe even a sexual attack.

In short, Kercher's vulnerability and death could be an unfortunate and unexpected function of her relationship with Silenzi, because he is a douche.

This all leads me to wonder whether kids of this age, particularly young women, are mature enough to go off to a foreign country and live, essentially, on their own. I think that programs that involve some sort of dorm/family living, with a full-time program advisor/chaperone and formalized structure are a better choice. Definitely would have been better for both Ms. Kercher and Ms. Knox.

Thank you for voicing this theory, which I myself had thought of in nearly these exact terms, long ago.

I have tried to fit Knox and Sollecito into the crime with the "prank-gone-wrong" theory, but I must say now that you have reminded me of my earlier, profound suspicions of Giacomo, he rises in my mind with no resistance.

Yes, he had bragged to the other guys about his exploits with Meredith, and Rudy may have overheard or been told about this. Giacomo may have even mentioned that on the holiday weekend, Meredith would be the sole person left behind to water the pot plants.

Giacomo was having sex with Meredith but didn't have the decency to say hello to her when he passed her in the street. He was involved in drugs, and the production of marijuana, even bringing MK in on this against her better judgement (the watering of the plants). He had a known criminal (Guede) as his supplier of drugs, and allowed him to hang in the apartment and to be let in on intimate and schedule details.

It is not a stretch to say that Meredith underestimated Giacomo's bad character, and this may have led to her death. As I said, have not thought about this in a couple of years, but when I saw your post, it all came flooding back.

 

[Rolfe]

The whole point of a wiki is its editability. It says all I need to know that when an error (I mean it's bound to have a few just in normal times!) crops up, it can be fixed.

That wiki is now the equivalent of the Wikipedia article on "The Murder of Meredith Kercher", where people contributing from the innocence side were complained about and banned. It took the personal intervention of no less than Jimbo Wales to remedy it, and a senior Wikipedia editor was assigned. There were no less than 35+ "talk pages" generated by BRMull alone! Pages!

It's why many believe that this wiki in question is BRMull project - posing as Edward McCall, whoever that is. The two obsessions the fellow had were Wikipedia and saying slutty things about Amanda Knox.

In the "weird coincidences" department, my creepy stalker is convinced that I and the "senior Wikipedia editor" who sorted out the wiki article in question are one and the same person.

In which case, you may thank me at your leisure!

Rolfe.

 

[Dan O.]

Surely the overwhelmingly important point about the "wiki"-style page created by McCall and others is this:

It has zero credentials, and therefore has zero credibility as an objective source of information about the case.

The site has merely been created using the Wikipedia style template. It therefore looks and feels something like a genuine Wikipedia page. But other than that, it's absolutely no different from any other website that might be set up by anyone concerning any subject.

Put it this way: I could download the wiki-style template and create a website that contained "all the information" showing how the Moon landings were hoaxes. My site would look much like any true Wikipedia page - but the choice of content and editorial slant would be entirely mine.

McCall's website has absolutely zero checks and balances: no editorial oversight, no right of reply, no trusted claim of objectivity. In that respect, it's absolutely no different as a "resource" than a site such as TJMK. If the "wiki" look and feel of McCall's website is fooling people otherwise to any extent, then it only points to the gullibility and stupidity of those being fooled. I suspect, however, that this deception was probably one of the conscious aims of McCall and others who conceived and constructed the website. And that of course would tend to suggest that they intended to use the possibility of deceit as a tool to push their biased point of view.

Well, it's your own damn fault that McCall was able to establish a wiki style propaganda site. By "you" I refer to the collective all of you that are honestly searching for the truth in this matter. I started a wiki on this case years ago and promoted it's benefits as a resource for truth. Many times I have shown you results from this wiki, the comprehensive timeline, the news index. Most of you have been invited to use and contribute to this wiki.

This isn't hard work. It's built by adding one piece of information at a time. Whenever I see something I didn't know I add it with references. Sometimes I'll have an interest in a person, place or item and will search the web for more information. When I do this I try to build or extend the page on the wiki so I don't have to do the search again and the results are quickly retrievable even when I'm on the road with just my iPad.

My wiki was designed as a research tool so it isn't directly suitable for public consumption. But many of the pages could be cleaned up and made presentable. We could do this if we put our time and talents together.

Why is it that the guilters seem to have a monopoly on cooperation?

 

[Bill Williams]

In the "weird coincidences" department, my creepy stalker is convinced that I and the "senior Wikipedia editor" who sorted out the wiki article in question are one and the same person.

In which case, you may thank me at your leisure!

Rolfe.

You have a stalker? Me, I'm stuck with Grinder.

 

[Bill Williams]

Well, it's your own damn fault that McCall was able to establish a wiki style propaganda site. By "you" I refer to the collective all of you that are honestly searching for the truth in this matter. I started a wiki on this case years ago and promoted it's benefits as a resource for truth. Many times I have shown you results from this wiki, the comprehensive timeline, the news index. Most of you have been invited to use and contribute to this wiki.

This isn't hard work. It's built by adding one piece of information at a time. Whenever I see something I didn't know I add it with references. Sometimes I'll have an interest in a person, place or item and will search the web for more information. When I do this I try to build or extend the page on the wiki so I don't have to do the search again and the results are quickly retrievable even when I'm on the road with just my iPad.

My wiki was designed as a research tool so it isn't directly suitable for public consumption. But many of the pages could be cleaned up and made presentable. We could do this if we put our time and talents together.

Why is it that the guilters seem to have a monopoly on cooperation?

They may have merely a mutual obsession! But, hey, I cooperated!

 

[Grinder]

Exactly,old news that hasn't been discussed in ages because it could not be verified. Joh worked with one of the roommates so blame him for the close to the source account. The resurrection of the story has been by Amanda . Initially she ignored a question by Celeste on her blog. Interesting what followed she was asked by another to put the rape prank" to rest . She does but confirms a robbery prank that required an apology for the distress caused. So why then did her supporters become so enraged on her blog? Why did they attack the person who asked for it to be put to rest if not true. Simple they knew a staged robbery a year earlier on a roommate (s) that caused distress should be kept under wraps.It would be an indication of what Amanda thought might be fun to organize.

Briars those quotes came from Peggy on Oct. 11, 2011. Go ahead and Google "perugia murder file and prank" and you will see the subject was discussed throughout.

Peggy said "No one in the FOA has ever denied this story, which is about all that can be said. Incidentally, I don't know that this prank occurred on Halloween. It was said that AK and fellow pranksters wore ski masks and "kidnapped" someone in their dorm, who was terrified by this joke."

Joh never said anything about rape or kidnapping.

As I said earlier the PGP made up bs about bs but you can't admit it.

Go to PMF and search for 'prank' and you will see how often it was discussed over the years.

By the way it wasn't a robbery prank which implies a face to face with the victim as opposed to moving items in a house to give the impression that they had been burgled.

The resurrection of the story has been by Amanda

Initially she ignored a question by Celeste on her blog. Interesting what followed she was asked by another to put the rape prank" to rest .

So was it Amanda that resurrected the story or PMFers?

 

[Briars]

Thank you for voicing this theory, which I myself had thought of in nearly these exact terms, long ago.

I have tried to fit Knox and Sollecito into the crime with the "prank-gone-wrong" theory, but I must say now that you have reminded me of my earlier, profound suspicions of Giacomo, he rises in my mind with no resistance.

Yes, he had bragged to the other guys about his exploits with Meredith, and Rudy may have overheard or been told about this. Giacomo may have even mentioned that on the holiday weekend, Meredith would be the sole person left behind to water the pot plants.

Giacomo was having sex with Meredith but didn't have the decency to say hello to her when he passed her in the street. He was involved in drugs, and the production of marijuana, even bringing MK in on this against her better judgement (the watering of the plants). He had a known criminal (Guede) as his supplier of drugs, and allowed him to hang in the apartment and to be let in on intimate and schedule details.

It is not a stretch to say that Meredith underestimated Giacomo's bad character, and this may have led to her death. As I said, have not thought about this in a couple of years, but when I saw your post, it all came flooding back.

Now you have him bragging about intimate details . Hpw about the more likely scenario ,he shared with his friends what specific questions the police had asked They were all in shock and trying to figure out what had happened and what would be the relevance of those intimate questions to the investigation.

 

[Grinder]

Thank you. Most interesting

I wonder what prompted Joh to mostly remove his "Alwood" online presence and reinvent himself as Joh Oso.

http://insanity.klout.com/joh_oso

No idea. He was 26 years old and a dungeons and dragons aficionado when he posted about a nineteen year old. His MySpace page made him seem a bit creepy to me. He clearly wanted attention as he linked to his real name and D&D promo page.

The prank theme has been a constant at PMF as they too have a hard time putting together a scenario.

 

[Grinder]

Well, it's your own damn fault that McCall was able to establish a wiki style propaganda site. By "you" I refer to the collective all of you that are honestly searching for the truth in this matter. I started a wiki on this case years ago and promoted it's benefits as a resource for truth. Many times I have shown you results from this wiki, the comprehensive timeline, the news index. Most of you have been invited to use and contribute to this wiki.

This isn't hard work. It's built by adding one piece of information at a time. Whenever I see something I didn't know I add it with references. Sometimes I'll have an interest in a person, place or item and will search the web for more information. When I do this I try to build or extend the page on the wiki so I don't have to do the search again and the results are quickly retrievable even when I'm on the road with just my iPad.

My wiki was designed as a research tool so it isn't directly suitable for public consumption. But many of the pages could be cleaned up and made presentable. We could do this if we put our time and talents together.

Why is it that the guilters seem to have a monopoly on cooperation?

If you wish to PM me and tell me how I could help make it public let me know.

 

[Briars]

Thank you for voicing this theory, which I myself had thought of in nearly these exact terms, long ago.

I have tried to fit Knox and Sollecito into the crime with the "prank-gone-wrong" theory, but I must say now that you have reminded me of my earlier, profound suspicions of Giacomo, he rises in my mind with no resistance.

Yes, he had bragged to the other guys about his exploits with Meredith, and Rudy may have overheard or been told about this. Giacomo may have even mentioned that on the holiday weekend, Meredith would be the sole person left behind to water the pot plants.

Giacomo was having sex with Meredith but didn't have the decency to say hello to her when he passed her in the street. He was involved in drugs, and the production of marijuana, even bringing MK in on this against her better judgement (the watering of the plants). He had a known criminal (Guede) as his supplier of drugs, and allowed him to hang in the apartment and to be let in on intimate and schedule details.

It is not a stretch to say that Meredith underestimated Giacomo's bad character, and this may have led to her death. As I said, have not thought about this in a couple of years, but when I saw your post, it all came flooding back.

Briars those quotes came from Peggy on Oct. 11, 2011. Go ahead and Google "perugia murder file and prank" and you will see the subject was discussed throughout.

Peggy said "No one in the FOA has ever denied this story, which is about all that can be said. Incidentally, I don't know that this prank occurred on Halloween. It was said that AK and fellow pranksters wore ski masks and "kidnapped" someone in their dorm, who was terrified by this joke."

Joh never said anything about rape or kidnapping.

As I said earlier the PGP made up bs about bs but you can't admit it.

Go to PMF and search for 'prank' and you will see how often it was discussed over the years.

By the way it wasn't a robbery prank which implies a face to face with the victim as opposed to moving items in a house to give the impression that they had been burgled.

The resurrection of the story has been by Amanda

Initially she ignored a question by Celeste on her blog. Interesting what followed she was asked by another to put the rape prank" to rest .

So was it Amanda that resurrected the story or PMFers?

The story was brought up over 2 years ago. Peggy may have been convinced but she didn't push it. So not a rape prank but an assault with masks rumor ok.Why do you need a bunch of friends to just mess up a place? Amanda tells us no one was hurt for some reason? Would that be no one was hurt while moving furniture?

 

[smkovalinksy]

Now you have him bragging about intimate details . Hpw about the more likely scenario ,he shared with his friends what specific questions the police had asked They were all in shock and trying to figure out what had happened and what would be the relevance of those intimate questions to the investigation.

No, that's not the way it was told.

 

[Grinder]

Now you have him bragging about intimate details . Hpw about the more likely scenario ,he shared with his friends what specific questions the police had asked They were all in shock and trying to figure out what had happened and what would be the relevance of those intimate questions to the investigation.

Briars why is it permitted for the PGP to make up whatever they want but any speculation by the PIP is not.

I just showed you the original posts, here they are again. These are the total of the prank comments posted.

One of my co-workers shared a room with her before she ran off to Italy, and now he sleeps on the bed she gave him when she left. I told him he should put it on ebay and proclaim it is the site of "a hundred terrible sex acts". Gotta be worth millions. -Joh

Knox once got a bunch of her friends to dress up in ski masks and break into her apartment and assault her roomates as an "april fools" joke. She's guilty and *********** nuts. - Joh​

Do you see anything that indicates there was a rape or a kidnap as part of the prank? Why can't you say that it was wrong and awful for Peggy to propagate such tripe?

However you go after a PIP for talking about what Meredith's boyfriend said and did. Why?

Would you like someone here to find public discussions of his behavior? Would his behavior and activities be more likely to be relevant to the crime than a prank back home months before? Why didn't he take her home for the holiday? Was he ashamed of being with an English girl or of something else? Why in the world was she spending time with such a loser?

I correct PIP when they make mistakes or make criticisms that I don't think are fair. Why can't you see and say that Peggy and many at PMF are over the top and have made up stuff all along?

 

[Grinder]

The story was brought up over 2 years ago. Peggy may have been convinced but she didn't push it. So not a rape prank but an assault with masks rumor ok.Why do you need a bunch of friends to just mess up a place? Amanda tells us no one was hurt for some reason? Would that be no one was hurt while moving furniture?

Briars that was just one example. It has been brought up monthly since it was first discovered on the Slog.

I don't like pranks as I have stated but I would guess there were many people to move more or heavier things. Because of disgusting comments such as the one Peggy made about kidnapping which involves physical violence, perhaps Amanda felt she needed to make it clear there was no such activity as part of the prank.

Please tell us what she should have said and why.

 

[Briars]

No, that's not the way it was told.

What is the basis for this rumor.

 

[acbytesla]

My question here is taking us to a side issue, but I would like to ask if the presence (if accurate) of more graffiti in Perugia is a result of graffiti being more a European or Italian form of grassroots political expression" Such as "Strike!". or "Down with the Euro", or "Beat Madrid" ?

In Seattle I'd expect to see graffiti like "Office 365" .

I don't know Strozzi, they didn't look very different to me. But I'm not an expert on graffiti. I didn't get the impression that any of that graffiti had anything to do with political ideas. But maybe someone else can weigh in.

 

[Briars]

Briars that was just one example. It has been brought up monthly since it was first discovered on the Slog.

I don't like pranks as I have stated but I would guess there were many people to move more or heavier things. Because of disgusting comments such as the one Peggy made about kidnapping which involves physical violence, perhaps Amanda felt she needed to make it clear there was no such activity as part of the prank.

Please tell us what she should have said and why.

Joh a friend of the roommate tells us masks and an assualt was part of the prank Easy to think that if a female encounters an intruder with a mask and there was reason to believe an assualt was imminent then that might involve a rape attempt.