Moderated What Caused the Plane Shaped Hole

[yankee451]

No I don't. I don't accept the NIST report because I find errors and flaws in it. I don't accept any presentation which is full of errors as FACT. You can advance a theory... as you did. But others have pulled the rig out from under it by showing numerous factual errors.

Okay, so you're disputing the number of bolts in the spandrel plates. Fair enough. I say 16 in the video but the images show more and less, depends on where you look.

What is the final number you'd be happy with, 24? If we can be agreed on that I'll make the corrections to the model and the video.

Thank you for the feedback. What other errors did you notice?

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

No way, radar?

Have you checked out the damage evidence?

I have. You appear to be using subjective analysis of a very limited dataset. The actual "damage evidence" as you call it also includes teh exit wounds on teh downrange side of the tower, where one engine, at least one wheel, a big chunk of fuselage and all the center tank fuel exited.

As seen on video, shot from 20+ different distances and angles.

But HEY! We can handwave the entire set of video evidence away as "lolz all teh fake" without any actual thinking, right?

 

[JSanderO]

Okay, so you're disputing the number of bolts in the spandrel plates. Fair enough. I say 16 in the video but the images show more and less, depends on where you look.

What is the final number you'd be happy with, 24? If we can be agreed on that I'll make the corrections to the model and the video.

Thank you for the feedback. What other errors did you notice?

Please look at the PDF attached to post #739 which has plan view of all the facade columns of the towers. At the strike zone they were 1/2" thick plates.

An examination of the debris shows that most the bolts connecting the facade columns failed at some point.. likely the heads or nuts were sheared from the leverage created on the connection. And this is true for ALL columns at all levels. When they parted the bolts were sheared.

 

[Robrob]

Well, I would say the only way the two big wall panels that we see here could be curled in like that would be if there were not floors behind them. After all, each one allegedly had three floors on each panel, top, bottom and middle.

Also, each spandrel plate was connected with two plates of steel with 16 bolts per spandrel, making 32 bolts per seam. So those bolts were obviously removed too.

Claims based on what evidence?

 

[BadBoy]

You missed the part where not one of you can provide any physics to prove your claims, so we're all examining the available evidence together now.

What do you see? A pterodactyl?

Whats your problem with TV footage. Video evidence is used all the time for prosecutions.

Some points from your images you posted of the plane shaped hole.

- The "bent to the right" columns you keep going on about, the angle of the image appears to be from the right of the tower. I think the column is bending in towards the interior but the angle makes them look like they are bent to the right.

- I dont see how missiles could make a plane shaped hole that exactly fits the Jet anyway.

- Your comments regarding the differences between the right wing impact point and the left wing of course would be due to differences in their impacts. The angle of aircrat entry, what parts of the wingtip met which parts of the building in each case etc etc. They will be different. But even ignoring the blooming obvious the damage on both ends exactly matches the width of the wings, even if the damage is different.

- I'm still not sure if you are saying the bolts/floors were removed so the plane could enter the building better so the wings wouldn't fall off :/ Or that a missile did it all. (or both?)

Edited by LashL: 

Edited for civility.

 

[yankee451]

Please look at the PDF attached to post #739 which has plan view of all the facade columns of the towers. At the strike zone they were 1/2" thick plates.

An examination of the debris shows that most the bolts connecting the facade columns failed at some point.. likely the heads or nuts were sheared from the leverage created on the connection. And this is true for ALL columns at all levels. When they parted the bolts were sheared.

Hmm...indeed. This is good, much obliged thank you. What's the source for it please? I am not happy I missed that but would like to know where it came from so I can correct the record.

As for the photos of sheared bolts, I don't claim they removed bolts for the whole tower, only strategic bolts for the impact zone. The corrections you pointed out don't change that.

You mentioned: " But others have pulled the rig out from under it by showing numerous factual errors. "

Lay them on me please. I appreciate the feedback, thanks again.

 

[Robrob]

As for the photos of sheared bolts, I don't claim they removed bolts for the whole tower, only strategic bolts for the impact zone. The corrections you pointed out don't change that.

What's that sound?

 

[LashL]

This thread is a train-wreck and is now closed pending clean up, infractions, and suspensions, as required. In the meantime, as always, do not attempt to get around the closure by posting on the same topic in other threads. You will have to wait until this thread is sorted out and re-opened.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: LashL

The thread is reopened. Please examine the posts in AAH so as not to repeat any actionable behavior.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Loss Leader

 

[Black Hole Box]

In this video I examine the North Tower impact damage on 9/11, allegedly caused by American Airlines Flight 11.

The damage evidence eliminates explosives alone as being the cause, and at the same time it eliminates a Boeing 767 or a reinforced jet of any kind. The video also dispenses with the hologram nonsense and pokes fun at the “mini-nuke” crowd as well as pokes a finger in the eye of the Judy Wood clique.

http://yankee451.com/2014/01/07/cut-plane-shaped-hole-episode-one/

Transcript here:
http://yankee451.com/2014/01/07/cut-plane-shaped-hole-episode-one/

I admit it. It was my junk what made the hole.

 

[RoboTimbo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoE8Uz2ia3M

It's the clip at about 2:20. I can't remember the name that clip is known by, but if anyone else does . . .. ? Anyway, in the better quality versions it looks like the building flexes about one column width.

Thanks! I knew I'd seen it somewhere.

Deflection from that mass pretty well nails the lid on the coffin of the missile fantasies.

 

[Mark F]

I liked this thread better when it was closed.

 

[George 152]

Hmm...indeed. This is good, much obliged thank you. What's the source for it please? I am not happy I missed that but would like to know where it came from so I can correct the record.

As for the photos of sheared bolts, I don't claim they removed bolts for the whole tower, only strategic bolts for the impact zone. The corrections you pointed out don't change that.

You mentioned: " But others have pulled the rig out from under it by showing numerous factual errors. "

Lay them on me please. I appreciate the feedback, thanks again.

The kooks deliberately 'forget' that bolts pop under load so in this case of missing bolts BINGO

 

[JSanderO]

I am attaching a PDF which corrects an error in the original post. The plan view had the panels inside out. Sorry.

 

[yankee451]

I am attaching a PDF which corrects an error in the original post. The plan view had the panels inside out. Sorry.

Thanks.

Do you have details on the window brackets and cladding brackets too by any chance?

How about the neoprene gasket lining the sides of the cladding? We assumed they removed the inner window seal to install the windows and then reattached it with screws after the window was in place, but I'd like to see what you have, if you don't mind.

Thanks again.

 

[yankee451]

The kooks deliberately 'forget' that bolts pop under load so in this case of missing bolts BINGO

Please explain how the lateral loads would "pop" 12 bolts simultaneously while only damaging one half of the columns they were connecting. Then explain how a lateral load would pop the 24 spandrel seam bolts on each side, considering behind each seam was an acre of concrete floor.

 

[yankee451]

I am attaching a PDF which corrects an error in the original post. The plan view had the panels inside out. Sorry.

I updated the audio but the animations will have to wait.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPZNQTj2hNg

I appreciate the feedback, thanks.

 

[yankee451]

I have. You appear to be using subjective analysis of a very limited dataset. The actual "damage evidence" as you call it also includes teh exit wounds on teh downrange side of the tower, where one engine, at least one wheel, a big chunk of fuselage and all the center tank fuel exited.

As seen on video, shot from 20+ different distances and angles.

The topic is currently the Plane Shaped Hole. Makes scrutiny easier to examine the evidence in small chunks doncha think? I'll get around to the evidence of planted plane parts and gravity defying wall-panels on another thread.

If the video record was possible in the real world (it isn't) and if the damage was consistent with the direction of travel of what was shown on video, there would be no reason to question it (but it doesn't so there is.)

But HEY! We can handwave the entire set of video evidence away as "lolz all teh fake" without any actual thinking, right?

See above.

 

[DGM]

Makes scrutiny easier to examine the evidence in small chunks doncha think?

Sure. start with the planes themselves.

What makes you think they were never there (considering many sources place them)?

 

[yankee451]

Sure. start with the planes themselves.

What makes you think they were never there (considering many sources place them)?

So start with the assumption that the story provided by the most likely suspects is true?
I assume you're referring to the floors behind the spandrel seams? I didn't say they were never there. I said the exterior wall panels couldn't have bent in like that unless there were no floors behind them.

 

[DGM]

So start with the assumption that the story provided by the most likely suspects is true?

The FAA/ATC? American or United Airlines? Network TV/radio?