Nailed: Ten Christian Myths that show Jesus never existed

[Brainache]

Wait.
Clement has priority over the gospels?
Even though we know Clement's works are epiwhatsit aka forgeries?

But thinking it over, Brainache, that information you posted up makes the gospel account of Jesus' death even dodgier.

Well some Clement can be seen to be using sources that contain material which appears to be very early. Again, this is all coming from Eisenman.

I have doubts about Jesus' crucifixion, yes. I have doubts about the Roman involvement in Jesus' death, too.

I don't think you can have the one, without the other.

How did that bit get into the story?
Who knows?
The same way as did the zombies, the blasted fig tree, the adulterous woman, the resurrection, the two donkeys, the massacre of the innocents, Salome's dance, the magi, the entombment, and a long etc.?

You may have a point.

Errr....

Just making the point that if the hypothesis I'm using is correct, the Jesus cult were Zealots and they were organised more like a network of Terrorist cells, than your local Mega-Church. So the Romans might have had a hard time gathering intel. on these people.

 

[pakeha]

Wait.
Clement has priority over the gospels?
Even though we know Clement's works are epiwhatsit aka forgeries?

But thinking it over, Brainache, that information you posted up makes the gospel account of Jesus' death even dodgier.

Well some Clement can be seen to be using sources that contain material which appears to be very early. Again, this is all coming from Eisenman.

Are we skirting Crossan's 'strata' territory here?

I have doubts about Jesus' crucifixion, yes. I have doubts about the Roman involvement in Jesus' death, too.

I don't think you can have the one, without the other.

That's right.
It's why so many of my posts ask why Jesus was crucified, rather than decently beheaded according to custom.

I could go into full crankdom and speculate that disappearance of Jesus' cadaver was to cover-up he was beheaded, as per custom, rather than crucified, as per the seditious Jesus story.
But I shan't, at least not today.

How did that bit get into the story?
Who knows?
The same way as did the zombies, the blasted fig tree, the adulterous woman, the resurrection, the two donkeys, the massacre of the innocents, Salome's dance, the magi, the entombment, and a long etc.?

You may have a point.

And I may not.
It's why I keep asking about the plausibility of the story Jesus arrest, trial and death, given that of JtB.
Keep in mind the total disruption in the material we have available caused by the Destruction of Jerusalem.
I can't rule out straight up jive in ANY of the stories.
As always, YMMV.

Errr....

Just making the point that if the hypothesis I'm using is correct, the Jesus cult were Zealots and they were organised more like a network of Terrorist cells, than your local Mega-Church. So the Romans might have had a hard time gathering intel. on these people.

Interesting.
My take was totally different, meaning the Jews have learned a great deal from their oppressors. Mossad, anyone?

 

[Belz...]

Well everyone who has eyes and brain can see very clearly that you have no answer at all

What an interesting, and thinly veiled, attack on anyone who disagrees with you.

 

[Brainache]

Are we skirting Crossan's 'strata' territory here?

Not sure why you think "strata" is a dirty word. There are layers. Defining the boundaries is where it gets tricky.

That's right.
It's why so many of my posts ask why Jesus was crucified, rather than decently beheaded according to custom.

I could go into full crankdom and speculate that disappearance of Jesus' cadaver was to cover-up he was beheaded, as per custom, rather than crucified, as per the seditious Jesus story.
But I shan't, at least not today.

And I may not.
It's why I keep asking about the plausibility of the story Jesus arrest, trial and death, given that of JtB.
Keep in mind the total disruption in the material we have available caused by the Destruction of Jerusalem.
I can't rule out straight up jive in ANY of the stories.
As always, YMMV.


...

Well I don't really see the problem. JTB was arrested out in the "Wilderness" somewhere and delivered to Herod's Castle where he was beheaded. He wasn't guilty of any immediate sedition, Herod just feared his popularity and that he might do something one day.

Jesus, on the other hand, was in the Temple on the biggest day of the Jewish Religious year causing a disturbance with a major source of Roman Revenue: The Temple Tax from the "Money Changers".

So he was most likely picked up straight away, or very soon afterwards (apparently Mr Ehrman still favours the Judas betrayal scenario, Who knows?). They then make an example of him by crucifying him and calling him "King Of The Jews".

Big laughs all round for the Romans. Jesus' family were less impressed.

 

[dejudge]

Not sure why you think "strata" is a dirty word. There are layers. Defining the boundaries is where it gets tricky.

Well I don't really see the problem. JTB was arrested out in the "Wilderness" somewhere and delivered to Herod's Castle where he was beheaded. He wasn't guilty of any immediate sedition, Herod just feared his popularity and that he might do something one day.

Jesus, on the other hand, was in the Temple on the biggest day of the Jewish Religious year causing a disturbance with a major source of Roman Revenue: The Temple Tax from the "Money Changers".

So he was most likely picked up straight away, or very soon afterwards (apparently Mr Ehrman still favours the Judas betrayal scenario, Who knows?). They then make an example of him by crucifying him and calling him "King Of The Jews".

Big laughs all round for the Romans. Jesus' family were less impressed.

Again, you present another example of "history" from imagination.

You should be aware that the author of gJohn utterly dismantles your imagination story and places the Temple Incident at almost the start of his story.

John's Temple Incident happens in the first of THREE other Passover visits to the Temple or at least two years before gJohn's Jesus was crucified.

Please, get familiar with the stories of Jesus in the NT instead of inventing your own version by imagination.

 

[The Norseman]

Well I don't really see the problem. JTB was arrested out in the "Wilderness" somewhere and delivered to Herod's Castle where he was beheaded. He wasn't guilty of any immediate sedition, Herod just feared his popularity and that he might do something one day.

Please tell me what evidence you have read that supports these two statements. No, this isn't a 'gotcha' question.

Jesus, on the other hand, was in the Temple on the biggest day of the Jewish Religious year causing a disturbance with a major source of Roman Revenue: The Temple Tax from the "Money Changers".

And this statement as well. I appreciate it.

So he was most likely picked up straight away, or very soon afterwards (apparently Mr Ehrman still favours the Judas betrayal scenario, Who knows?). They then make an example of him by crucifying him and calling him "King Of The Jews".

Big laughs all round for the Romans. Jesus' family were less impressed.

Where is it written what Jesus' family thought or said?

 

[Craig B]

... Please, get familiar with the stories of Jesus in the NT instead of inventing your own version by imagination.

That is uncalled for! For the second time today I have occasion to ask MJ supporters why they adopt such a tone in discussing issues of this kind. What's it for, dejudge?

 

[The Norseman]

That is uncalled for! For the second time today I have occasion to ask MJ supporters why they adopt such a tone in discussing issues of this kind. What's it for, dejudge?

You might get a better response if you ask the HJ side why they often post in a hostile and rude manner.

 

[Craig B]

You might get a better response if you ask the HJ side why they often post in a hostile and rude manner.

Are you saying what I pointed out is not hostile or rude, or that I will not receive a response? No doubt this will go to AAH, but I sometimes think people go to far. Why this hostility?

 

[Belz...]

You might get a better response if you ask the HJ side why they often post in a hostile and rude manner.

In the sense that the HJ side gives better responses ?

 

[dejudge]

That is uncalled for! For the second time today I have occasion to ask MJ supporters why they adopt such a tone in discussing issues of this kind. What's it for, dejudge?

You are talking to the wrong guy.

You should address this poster's imagination history.

...So he was most likely picked up straight away, or very soon afterwards (apparently Mr Ehrman still favours the Judas betrayal scenario, Who knows?). They then make an example of him by crucifying him and calling him "King Of The Jews".

Big laughs all round for the Romans. Jesus' family were less impressed.

 

[The Norseman]

Are you saying what I pointed out is not hostile or rude, or that I will not receive a response? No doubt this will go to AAH, but I sometimes think people go to far. Why this hostility?

I'm saying that what you pointed out is, in my view, hostile and sometimes rude. I also think you will not get a response from any poster that you are talking about.

I also feel that there are several posters on the HJ side who post hostile and rude and empty remarks and that since you're on "the same side", they might get a feeling of camaraderie and then maybe an answer as to why they are posting in such a hostile and rude manner.

At this point, I'd not mind these threads be merged and put on moderated status.

 

[The Norseman]

In the sense that the HJ side gives better responses ?

Heh. Sometimes that seems to be the case, doesn't it?

 

[tsig]

Or be determined to ignore everything anyone says on the subject, lie and distort their arguments and pretend to be really really clever.

This willful ignorance of yours is disgusting.

What an interesting, and thinly veiled, attack on anyone who disagrees with you.

I guess a thinly veiled one is worse than a straight out one.

 

[tsig]

Or be determined to ignore everything anyone says on the subject, lie and distort their arguments and pretend to be really really clever.
This willful ignorance of yours is disgusting.

Are you saying what I pointed out is not hostile or rude, or that I will not receive a response? No doubt this will go to AAH, but I sometimes think people go to far. Why this hostility?

Ask Brainache.

 

[tsig]

Is this argument a deliberate insult to everyone's intelligence, or is it your serious considered opinion?

Or be determined to ignore everything anyone says on the subject, lie and distort their arguments and pretend to be really really clever.

This willful ignorance of yours is disgusting.

In the sense that the HJ side gives better responses ?

Right.

 

[pipelineaudio]

Well we know your contribution in this thread certainly keeps coming down to that.

You are free to, and have been asked to and consistently failed to deliver ANY non biblical evidence for an HJ. I'm just going with the null hypothesis here

 

[Elagabalus]

You are free to, and have been asked to and consistently failed to deliver ANY non biblical evidence for an HJ. I'm just going with the null hypothesis here

Here's a primer which you should probably read before you feel compelled to rip into the HJ Hypothesis.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/exploringourmatrix/2011/04/a-menu-of-answers-to-mythicists.html

sorry about the link

 

[jhunter1163]

www.patheos.com/blogs/exploringourmatrix/2011/04/a-menu-of-answers-to-mythicists.html

sorry about the link

www.patheos.com/blogs/exploringourmatrix/2011/04/a-menu-of-answers-to-mythicists.html


Fixed link.

 

[Elagabalus]

Thank you