Continuation Part Seven: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Dan O.]

Is there any evidence that this cat was really wounded?

If the cat was wounded inside the house, I would not expect to find its blood outside, leading up/down the steps.

What I recall is that the cat had an ear infection prior to the boys leaving for the holiday weekend.

From Republica 2007-11-14:

On that ground, with three other boys, lives Giacomo Silenzi, Meredith's boyfriend, on 3 November he had told police: "Before leaving for Porto San Giorgio I gave the keys to my house asking Meredith to disinfect one of my two cats that had injured her ear. "

The four students have vowed to clean the stains left by the injured cat el 'entire house before leaving for vacation​

.


A bathroom window was left open so the cat could get in and out of the house. If the cat is getting outside, the most likely source of the injury is a fight with another cat. The trail inside the house begins in the bathroom under that open window.

 

[Strozzi]

-

My only real beef with Maresca was the projection of the death photo of Meredith. The fact that no one (that I've heard about anyway) from the PGP camp (or even from Meredith's parents or siblings) has ever complained about this (plus the almost nonexistent mention of Raffaele or Rudy) is when I began questioning if this campaign against Amanda was really about Meredith at all,

d

-

I believe Maresca's proper role from day one should have been to defend the family's interest by challenging everything. He should have been all over the police for not better securing the property, properly collecting evidence, not searching more outside to find the knife that fit the wounds, not collecting neighborhood videos, and not interviewing people door to door. When Lumumba was freed by the police, the Kercher attorney should have been all over the police to explain what went wrong and not accept their smiley assertions that they were deceived by the cunning 20 year old in the midnight interrogation. He should have picked up on Guede's earlier burglarly patterns once that started to come out and demanded they get the full story about the recent break-ins.

His job should have been justice for Meredith, which means finding and convicting the real killer, and not letting a participant be cast in a more minor role and be given a light sentence. It also means protecting the family from years of grief and doubt by holding the police's feet to the fire to get it right, especially since as an Italian lawyer he knows how many trials and retrials the case would likely go through with the possible reversals which compound the agony of the grieving and confused Kerchers.

 

[Diocletus]

What I recall is that the cat had an ear infection prior to the boys leaving for the holiday weekend.

From Republica 2007-11-14:

On that ground, with three other boys, lives Giacomo Silenzi, Meredith's boyfriend, on 3 November he had told police: "Before leaving for Porto San Giorgio I gave the keys to my house asking Meredith to disinfect one of my two cats that had injured her ear. "

The four students have vowed to clean the stains left by the injured cat el 'entire house before leaving for vacation​

.


A bathroom window was left open so the cat could get in and out of the house. If the cat is getting outside, the most likely source of the injury is a fight with another cat. The trail inside the house begins in the bathroom under that open window.

That's strange, because Stefanoni's testimony makes it sound like she's saying that the cat was injured when the cops broke down the door, and not before the boys left for vacation:

RISPOSTA – È successo purtroppo anche in questo caso che un gattino ci ha fatto impazzire perché inizialmente nel sopralluogo, il sopralluogo nella casa di via della Pergola, quindi la casa dove è stato ritrovato il cadavere purtroppo siamo stati pesantemente fuorviati, quasi presi in giro dal fatto che un gatto, evidentemente ferito, si era introdotto nell’appartamento diciamo al piano sottostante a quello della vittima, evidentemente c’erano dei vetri a terra, rotti insomma che erano stati prodotti per entrare nell’appartamento, perché non si trovavano le chiavi so, e quindi questo gattino purtroppo si è ferito ed ha lasciato sangue ovunque, ovviamo facendoci fare un lavoro pazzesco di campionatura perché pensavamo che qualcuno avesse evidentemente… insomma non lo so, collegato al delitto e quindi avesse perso del sangue, invece poi era un gatto, appunto. Successivamente alla determinazione appunto della prima analisi su queste campionature fatte, sulla natura e sulla tipologia si ha l’iniziale trattamento vero e proprio, che è quello dell’astrazione

ANSWER - It has unfortunately happened also in this case that a kitten drove us crazy, because initially during the inspection, the inspection inside the house on Via della Pergola, hence the house where the corpse has been found, unfortunately we had been greatly led astray, almost fooled by the fact that a cat, evidently wounded, had introduced itself in the apartment let's say on the floor below the victim's one [apartment], evidently there were glasses on the ground, broken [glasses] in other words which had been produced by entering in the apartment, because the keys could not be found, and therefore this kitten unfortunately wounded itself and left blood everywhere, obviously forcing us to do a mad [incredible, in the sense of quantitatively demanding and fatiguing] sampling work since we thought that somebody clearly...in other words I don't know [it's very idiomatic, "non so insomma" is like interjecting "I mean" in the speech] connected to the crime [had wounded himself or had been wounded] and hence had bled, instead it had indeed been a kitten. After the determination ["appunto" in this context is untraslatable, another sort of interjection, a bit like "er..."] of the first analysis on these samples, on the nature and typology, [then] comes the out-and-out first treatment, which is that of abstraction

 

[Strozzi]

What I recall is that the cat had an ear infection prior to the boys leaving for the holiday weekend.

From Republica 2007-11-14:

On that ground, with three other boys, lives Giacomo Silenzi, Meredith's boyfriend, on 3 November he had told police: "Before leaving for Porto San Giorgio I gave the keys to my house asking Meredith to disinfect one of my two cats that had injured her ear. "

The four students have vowed to clean the stains left by the injured cat el 'entire house before leaving for vacation​

.


A bathroom window was left open so the cat could get in and out of the house. If the cat is getting outside, the most likely source of the injury is a fight with another cat. The trail inside the house begins in the bathroom under that open window.

Could the two cats have had a bad fight? Could a third outdoor cat come inside and fought, or could the cat have fought with a dog or wild animal in the yard?

 

[andreajo]

I believe Maresca's proper role from day one should have been to defend the family's interest by challenging everything. He should have been all over the police for not better securing the property, properly collecting evidence, not searching more outside to find the knife that fit the wounds, not collecting neighborhood videos, and not interviewing people door to door. When Lumumba was freed by the police, the Kercher attorney should have been all over the police to explain what went wrong and not accept their smiley assertions that they were deceived by the cunning 20 year old in the midnight interrogation. He should have picked up on Guede's earlier burglarly patterns once that started to come out and demanded they get the full story about the recent break-ins.

His job should have been justice for Meredith, which means finding and convicting the real killer, and not letting a participant be cast in a more minor role and be given a light sentence. It also means protecting the family from years of grief and doubt by holding the police's feet to the fire to get it right, especially since as an Italian lawyer he knows how many trials and retrials the case would likely go through with the possible reversals which compound the agony of the grieving and confused Kerchers.

Is one allowed to be all over the police in Italy?

 

[andreajo]

Could the two cats have had a bad fight? Could a third outdoor cat come inside and fought, or could the cat have fought with a dog or wild animal in the yard?

If the cat had an ear infection, it might have scratched itself raw.

 

[Rolfe]

It would be interesting to know whether we're talking about an ear infection, otitis externa, which is probably secondary to ear mite infestation (Otodectes cynotis), or a traumatic injury to the ear (such as a fight injury) which may have become infected.

Really, though, you're only likely to see significant amounts of blood from a recent fight injury, probably a clawed ear. Something recent. The other possibilities probably don't involve much blood.

Rolfe.

 

[Kaosium]

What, exactly, does it mean for John Kercher, Jr. to be Harry Rag/The Machine? Is there something immoral or illegal about it?

Good point. In any event it wouldn't be an 'attack.'

Something just occurred to me: Douglas Preston claimed several years ago he had identified who Harry Rag was after he'd been stalked and trashed by him. I wonder if the information he uncovered suggested the same as it did to others recently?

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

That's strange, because Stefanoni's testimony makes it sound like she's saying that the cat was injured when the cops broke down the door, and not before the boys left for vacation:

She might be speculating about the source of the cat's injury, but she was able to determine that the blood was that of a cat rather than a human.

I don't think there is a deeper story here that is being covered up. I would encourage everyone who is interested to look at the Nov. 3 video of the downstairs apt., which I believe is available on IIP. It looks convincingly like blood dripping from the wounds of an injured cat that was moving throughout the house and on the furniture.

I cannot think of what activity or behavior by an injured person would create a similar pattern of blood drips distributed throughout the premises. People can control their bleeding, and do so by applying some kind of bandage to a wound rather than allowing it to drip freely as they move about.

 

[Grinder]

Does this comment, attached to a Croydon Guardian article, indicate a predecessor to TJMK:
Who is this local Croydon resident?

5:34pm Tuesday 11th November 2008 in NewsCroydon Guardian: Meredith Kercher
Meredith Kercher
A conspiracy theory website that claims to report the true account of the death of Coulsdon student Meredith Kercher has surfaced on the internet.

The site, called True Justice for Meredith Kercher, is based in New York and criticises the coverage of the murder by American news channels, especially CBS.

It is aiming to compile the definitive guide to the murder in Perugia on November 1 last year.

The site focuses on a number of Powerpoint presentations compiled by a poster called Kermit.

He is described on the site as “extraordinarily perceptive...with an encyclopaedic knowledge of the case and his writing is sharp and often laugh-out-loud funny”.

Kermit has put together a detailed guide to the events of November 1, which saw the discovery of Meredith’s half-naked body at the Perugia flat she shared with American Amanda Knox.

Knox, 21, and one-time Italian boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito, 24, are both due to face trial for their alleged role in Meredith’s murder.

And who is Kermit

 

[Diocletus]

She might be speculating about the source of the cat's injury, but she was able to determine that the blood was that of a cat rather than a human.

I don't think there is a deeper story here that is being covered up. I would encourage everyone who is interested to look at the Nov. 3 video of the downstairs apt., which I believe is available on IIP. It looks convincingly like blood dripping from the wounds of an injured cat that was moving throughout the house and on the furniture.

I cannot think of what activity or behavior by an injured person would create a similar pattern of blood drips distributed throughout the premises. People can control their bleeding, and do so by applying some kind of bandage to a wound rather than allowing it to drip freely as they move about.

I don't necessarily disagree with that, but I do have a problem with the blood on the lightswitch and the bloody drops on the steps outside. I don't think that either set of stains would have come from a cat. In the case of the lightswitch, I just don't think that a cat would get blood on a lightswitch, and in the case of the bloody drops, they don't look at all like they would come from a cat. I have never seen a photo of the lightswitch blood, however.

 

[Diocletus]

It would be interesting to know whether we're talking about an ear infection, otitis externa, which is probably secondary to ear mite infestation (Otodectes cynotis), or a traumatic injury to the ear (such as a fight injury) which may have become infected.

Really, though, you're only likely to see significant amounts of blood from a recent fight injury, probably a clawed ear. Something recent. The other possibilities probably don't involve much blood.

Rolfe.

Maybe the cat had an infected ear-piercing.

 

[Magister]

"As we remember Bongiorno closed the first trial with a question. "Are we sure the blood downstairs was from the cat?"

Now she developed that argument showing the pictures of the large stains of blood in the apartment downstairs, recalling that even Giobbi was surprised that a cat could have so much blood.

And she found one of the blood tests from downstairs that says "human blood".

So the others that say "cat blood" could be wrong, and the story of via della Pergola could be different, involving people other than "Sollecito" "


If not Guede's blood then whose?

Bongiorno......blood test......human blood.

 

[Strozzi]

People have commented that the US Embassy did not do enough to assist. The fact is that US embassies do not get involved in the substance of cases.

They do not, for example, help choose qualified legal counsel. Local attorneys who are willing to represent American's abroad volunteer their name and describe their expertice. The name goes on a list, alphabetically. The Embassy does not examine or verify or endorse their skill or suitability.

The following is from the US Department of State's website:

For information about hiring an attorney abroad, please visit the following website: "Retaining a Foreign Attorney. **http://travel.state.gov/law/retain/retain_714.html

"Most U.S. Embassies maintain lists of attorneys who have identified themselves as willing to represent U.S. citizens abroad. *These lists are available on individual U.S. Embassy and Consulate websites.

Lists of attorneys are provided as a courtesy service only and do not constitute an endorsement of any individual attorney. The Department of State assumes no responsibility or liability for the professional ability or reputation of, or the quality of services provided by, the persons or firms contained on such lists. Professional credentials and areas of expertise are provided directly by the lawyers.". (end USDepartment of State statement.)

My comment:
It is the responsibility of the US Department of State to ensure that an arrested American is treated proper within local law. Not to be hit or abused, to be provided access to an attorney and medical care, etc.

The US Embassy almost certainly expressed its concern at a high level to the Italian Foreign Ministry about the accusation that Amanda was hit in police interrogation. This would have been a confidential matter between two governments. The Knox family was almost certainly involved/informed. The Italian Foreign Ministry probably referred the matter to the Italian Ministry or Justice or Interior (whichever oversees the police) who probably made formal inquiries and was assured by Perugia police authorities that nothing occurred. Case closed, except that from that point on the police chief knew they had to be on good behavior.

 

[codyjuneau]

That's strange, because Stefanoni's testimony makes it sound like she's saying that the cat was injured when the cops broke down the door, and not before the boys left for vacation:

ANSWER - It has unfortunately happened also in this case that a kitten drove us crazy, because initially during the inspection, the inspection inside the house on Via della Pergola, hence the house where the corpse has been found, unfortunately we had been greatly led astray, almost fooled by the fact that a cat, evidently wounded, had introduced itself in the apartment let's say on the floor below the victim's one [apartment], evidently there were glasses on the ground, broken [glasses] in other words which had been produced by entering in the apartment, because the keys could not be found, and therefore this kitten unfortunately wounded itself and left blood everywhere, obviously forcing us to do a mad [incredible, in the sense of quantitatively demanding and fatiguing] sampling work since we thought that somebody clearly...in other words I don't know [it's very idiomatic, "non so insomma" is like interjecting "I mean" in the speech] connected to the crime [had wounded himself or had been wounded] and hence had bled, instead it had indeed been a kitten. After the determination ["appunto" in this context is untraslatable, another sort of interjection, a bit like "er..."] of the first analysis on these samples, on the nature and typology, [then] comes the out-and-out first treatment, which is that of abstraction

.
Maybe there is a more interesting point here.

According to Stefanoni, the police initially thought the abundant blood on the steps and in the locked downstairs apartment indicated the wounded attacker had gone down there after the murder. Hence, the reason they started looking for a key holder. And hence, the reason they speculated the upstairs broken window was staged.

If so, then another reason why they went looking in the wrong direction right from the start.
.

 

[Strozzi]

Maybe the cat had an infected ear-piercing.

The cat had nipple piercings. Eight of them!

That's six more than I have.

 

[GreyFox]

As somebody else said a while back. Merideth wouldnt have left blood on the light switch and then gone upstairs and fought Amanda over a skid mark. I just wish I knew if any of the pot plants were missing.

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

I don't necessarily disagree with that, but I do have a problem with the blood on the lightswitch and the bloody drops on the steps outside. I don't think that either set of stains would have come from a cat. In the case of the lightswitch, I just don't think that a cat would get blood on a lightswitch, and in the case of the bloody drops, they don't look at all like they would come from a cat. I have never seen a photo of the lightswitch blood, however.

I haven't seen photos of the light switch either. It might have been another "presumed blood" stain that wasn't blood, like a couple of the samples from the primary crime scene.

The stains on the sidewalk are rings with a hollow center, some of which are a couple of inches in diameter. I don't think the cat is responsible, but nor do I think they are connected to the murder. They don't have the right appearance, and they don't look fresh. But I'm at a loss to explain them, just as I am at a loss to explain the bloody tissues.

Police investigations turn up really bizarre red herrings. Sometimes they even turn up evidence of unrelated crimes that nobody knew about. I see this in case after case. I do not assume that because something is unusual, it must be relevant.

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

As somebody else said a while back. Merideth wouldnt have left blood on the light switch and then gone upstairs and fought Amanda over a skid mark. I just wish I knew if any of the pot plants were missing.

The pot plants do not appear to have been disturbed, and they were nowhere near ready for harvesting. They would have been ready by Christmas.

 

[Strozzi]

Rudy sliced his fingers when his hand slipped along the blade. I want to ask if the bleeding was sufficient to leave the amounts of blood seen outside or downstairs, wouldn't it still be bleeding when he was seen at the disco a few hours later? Wouldn't it be noticeable?