Continuation Part Seven: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Grinder]

Rudy was physically capable to do the break-in and knew the property. He also had recent expeience in this kind of break-in. He is known to have brought or seized a knife with him during burglaries, and in one case Rudy pulled it out to use against the homeowner. Rudy would not need assistance, and would not want to share the loot with an accomplice.

That's I forgot no one has an accomplice. Stupid to even have a word for one. He took a knife at the nursery that probably was as he claimed for protection. How do you think he was able to find a place with a broken lock in Milan? Would he have needed assistance at the lawyers' to disable the alarm? To whom did he fence the other stolen stuff from the lawyers' office.

His rent was due. He might have owed money to his drug dealer. But he did not need an accomplice to enter the dark cottage with him.

I think you've mentioned the rent due thing before but I don recall ever seeing proof that it is actually true. Even if it was due I doubt he would fear immediate eviction. He most certainly had some sort of dole coming to him.

It doesn't seem a stretch to me for his supplier to 'force' him to go out and get the money.

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

Criminal investigations routinely turn up unexplained details that are unrelated to the crime. Often defense attorneys will exploit these details to try to undermine a straightforward scenario that implicates their client. In this case, the prosecution has put itself in that role, with luminol and police/lab errors and other crap that means nothing.

Guede did use a kind of military or assassin technique in this attack - holding the victim from behind and cutting her throat - but he wasn't very skillful.

 

[Magister]

Strozzi

Who knows the background of eg Aviello or Florio?

If someone else killed Meredith it need not have been an accomplice of Guede.
Guede could have broken in through Filomena's window and then gone to the bathroom.
When Meredith returned home she could have been attacked by someone else as she unlocked the front door.
There are other possibilities.

The 2 cars and the disturbed flat downstairs play some part in the events that night.

 

[Strozzi]

Okay, military training but none of the suspects had that AFAIK.

Rudy had no violent history that we have been informed about. Could he have done exactly as you describe? Sure, but this has also always seemed an incongruous aspect of the case.

I think that sort of revenge is rare. Rudy took the fast track which seems sort of like a plea deal. I don't think are many good ways to murder someone.

I also am not aware of anyone suspected in this case of having had military training. I see nothing in the knife use that suggests commando training. The wounds are compatible with someone without military training grabbing the victim from behind, holding her jaw with his left hand, and wrapping his right hand around from the right to the left or front left side of her throat. It seems like a fairly normal way for an assailant grabbing a victim from behind with a knife in one hand. No military training needed for that.

So far as I know, Rudy has not used a knife before on a victim prior to this incident but he has pulled a knife and held it in a threatening manner when he was confronted in the middle of a burglary. Rudy also stole a large knife from the nursery school - which he said was for his protection. He's no knife virgin, and I submit that when he was in the toilet and heard the front door open he would have immediately pulled out his knife for his protection/escape.

Rudy also had a small hammer used to break through windows in his knapsack during a burglary, apparently stolen (unless you want to believe that it came into his possession in a legal manner: purchased, found it, or it was a gift). He carried the tools of his craft.

 

[Mary_H]

Oh yeah, I forgot but Candace is another one that made money.

"Who" made money. Not as much as the windfall Nadeau navigated....

Sadly, Word for Windows has changed the language for the worse. If you type "who," it will tell you to change it to "that."

 

[Samson]

I also am not aware of anyone suspected in this case of having had military training. I see nothing in the knife use that suggests commando training. The wounds are compatible with someone without military training grabbing the victim from behind, holding her jaw with his left hand, and wrapping his right hand around from the right to the left or front left side of her throat. It seems like a fairly normal way for an assailant grabbing a victim from behind with a knife in one hand. No military training needed for that.

So far as I know, Rudy has not used a knife before on a victim prior to this incident but he has pulled a knife and held it in a threatening manner when he was confronted in the middle of a burglary. Rudy also stole a large knife from the nursery school - which he said was for his protection. He's no knife virgin, and I submit that when he was in the toilet and heard the front door open he would have immediately pulled out his knife for his protection/escape.

Rudy also had a small hammer used to break through windows in his knapsack during a burglary, apparently stolen (unless you want to believe that it came into his possession in a legal manner: purchased, found it, or it was a gift). He carried the tools of his craft.

I thought he has a scar on his stomach from a knife wound, live by the sword as they say.

 

[Strozzi]

Strozzi

Who knows the background of eg Aviello or Florio?

If someone else killed Meredith it need not have been an accomplice of Guede.
Guede could have broken in through Filomena's window and then gone to the bathroom.
When Meredith returned home she could have been attacked by someone else as she unlocked the front door.
There are other possibilities.

The 2 cars and the disturbed flat downstairs play some part in the events that night.

Are you suggesting that there were two separate and unrelated criminals in the house at the same time? Rudy the burglar, and someone else who is the killer? If so, why is Rudy's DNA in Meredith's vagina and his DNA on the zipper of her purse?

Rudy fled to German two days after the murder. While there on the run for about two weeks, he followed Perugia news on the Internet. He read about the arrest of Amanda, her boyfriend, and Lumumba. Rudy called a friend via Skype and was recorded saying he was there consensually with Meredith but was in the toilet and not involved in the crime. He said Amanda was not there.

Rudy was taken into custody n Germany and returned to Italy. By this time, Rudy knew a lot of the media reports about the crime and wove a story of hearing Meredith scream while he was in the toilet. He times that at about 9:20 pm, which is 16 minutes after Meredith returned home.

Rudy claims he struggled with an unidentified Italian man, and subsequently looked out the window and saw the silhouette in the distance of a woman who resembled Amanda. Rudy was tailoring a story to conform to what Mignini and the police had publicly released to the media. Rudy's story played to Mignini.

In my view, Rudy is the killer who, while on the run in German, ran into tremendous good luck as Mignini arrested the wrong people allowing Rudy to fabricate an account that he was there innocently visiting Meredith when she was killed by some other guy accompanied by a woman seen in he distance. In the worst case for Rudy, he is portrayed by Mignini as a more minor player in the murder. Mignini is delusional about what happened and who was there. Mignini wants Amanda, his slutty American.

Two cars of people driving together were near the cottage for about an hour beginning at about 10:30 pm on the night of the murder. One car broke down at the entrance of the cottage's driveway. The other parked there or nearby while the people waited for a towtruck. All were identified and interviewed, as was the towtruck driver. No indication that any were involved in the crime.

 

[Magister]

Yes, it is possible that 2 separate and unrelated criminals were in the cottage that night.
That Guede's DNA was found on Meredith does not necessarily mean that he was the person who actually stabbed her.
If that was the case he would still correctly have been convicted for murder.
The 2 cars I mentioned have nothing at all to do with the breakdown incident.
One was a dark coloured car in the driveway of the cottage.
The other was a white car parked in the road outside with its engine running and headlights on. Said to belong to a local drug dealer.

 

[RandyN]

Latest from Frank Sfarzo.... on Bongiorno in court. "An attack too polite"

http://wrongfulconvictionnews.com/a...lecito-appeal-bongiorno-an-attack-too-polite/

I think Frank writes a story about the case a little too politely. No matter I suppose. If Bongiorno was the big gun in this defense then she apparently had a misfire. No TOD debate...rather she talked about the interrogation to which the judge asks her...how can we read this when the SC disallows it? And so with that great opening she fails to capitalize much on the fact that the information was brought illegally into the case by Lumumbas lawyer and by Mignini and by Massei.

She could have downloaded the clip of the climber from YouTube while in the court. Frank said she has bigger issues on her mind. Does she have an assistant? Someone with a smartphone? This is simply not hard. When the judge asks do you have a video...??? WHY YES...Yes I do. Watch how easy this climb actually is...better yet why no defense produced video? No defense produced sound test of Naras? No defense produced video that compares the large knife with the bed sheet imprints? Why no questions about the missing DNA tests? If Diocletus can list them and do it then why not a highly paid legal firm? This is powerful data. Missing egrams... just certain samples....why? If you cant provide the accomplices (and if there were accomplices someone knows about them besides the perps) Guede had a criminal element to his life...he most likely had criminal elemental friends to go with that. Someone knows who those people were...he was not a antisocial loner after all. Kokos car, Kokos testimony that Guede wanted to rent that car, Kokos timely trip home. But nothing. Nothing much for these guys to think about anyway. Bloody pics from downstairs??? Good. Follow that up with the facts about missing samples from down there. Messed up bloody bed, wet flip flops...easy access with keys...

Lumumba silenced from his police abuse rants with the curious months long seizure of his business....perhaps leave out the silenced part and just ask what the police and prosecutor were doing that for. We all know why they did it. Do the Italians? Did the Italians see the Ch5 video? Why no Porta Porta video of the cottage climb and sound checks, etc...? Seems like that would be right up their alley.

These are not hard things but easy things to do. The CH 5 reporters did more with far less facts and details and still making lots of errors and yet they make a good case for innocence...certainly reasonable doubt. But the defenses are reminding me of how they handled the last two big trials...Massei they did nothing...and Hellmann they did nothing...but thankfully Hellmann and Zanetti ask all the right defensive questions and made the defense case for them.

These lawyers are all to a T far in over their heads...Perhaps Yummi/Mach is correct...they were each chosen for their political connections...so far that doesn't seem to be panning out too well. Lets face it....it is not like this is a tough or even opaque case. It is a sham and a joke and the defense have failed to call anyone to task for such a rotten fact-less case...Sorry but Maresca is doing a better job than these defense people....and that is saying less than nothing actually. Shameful. RS is in serious jeopardy. Knox not so much.

 

[RandyN]

Yes, it is possible that 2 separate and unrelated criminals were in the cottage that night.
That Guede's DNA was found on Meredith does not necessarily mean that he was the person who actually stabbed her.
If that was the case he would still correctly have been convicted for murder.
The 2 cars I mentioned have nothing at all to do with the breakdown incident.
One was a dark coloured car in the driveway of the cottage.
The other was a white car parked in the road outside with its engine running and headlights on. Said to belong to a local drug dealer.

You have a strong future as an assistant to Mignini in the Perugia prosecutors office. This is exactly the type of thinking they used throughout the whole case and we can see 6 years later that it is working quite well for them...the ole if you cant dazzle them with brilliance then baffle them with bull shirt...perfect illogical logic. I like it. The defense should try it out...it seems to be compatible with Italian jurisprudence...I can see them latching right on to this...perfect!

 

[Magister]

RandyN
But you miss the point!
The ISC ,as we know, believe "the others" to be A and R.
I am making the case for the defence that some other person(s) could be "the others".
As the police did not investigate or identify all the forensic evidence they had collected then there are grounds for reasonable doubt.
Put simply it is another tactic.

It may also be true.

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

RandyN
But you miss the point!
The ISC ,as we know, believe "the others" to be A and R.
I am making the case for the defence that some other person(s) could be "the others".
As the police did not investigate or identify all the forensic evidence they had collected then there are grounds for reasonable doubt.
Put simply it is another tactic.

It may also be true.

I doubt very much if it's true. This is a simple, obvious crime, and the evidence tells a clear story. I don't think anyone would ever have thought there was more to it than meets the eye, if not for the fact that the cops went public with a wild accusation before they understood the basic facts of the crime scene.

Unexplained details pop up at crime scenes all the time, because the police are scrutinizing a particular location and time frame. Without a credible scenario, such details don't necessarily have any relevance.

 

[AmyStrange]

RandyN
But you miss the point!
The ISC ,as we know, believe "the others" to be A and R.
I am making the case for the defence that some other person(s) could be "the others".
As the police did not investigate or identify all the forensic evidence they had collected then there are grounds for reasonable doubt.
Put simply it is another tactic.

It may also be true.

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I've often wondered whether Rudy was actually telling the truth about someone else killing Meredith while he was there. It's a very interesting theory, but there's really not a whole lot of evidence to back it up and that's one of the reasons most PIP here won't go for it, plus it opens the door to Rudy maybe being up there with Meredith's blessing and maybe they actually did have sex. The non-staged break-in theory also comes into question if Meredith invited Rudy up to her flat. How does that work if Rudy was invited up?

Some on the PGP camp tend to believe this is what happened except that Amanda and Raffaele were the "other" two people who killed Meredith that Rudy saw, and not some else entirely, like your theory seems to be trying to say.

Like I said, it's an interesting theory,

d

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[michellesings]

I sincerely doubt that HarryRag is Piers Morgan. He would have to be much more media savvy and undoubtedly write better than Harry. As for John Kercher Jr, I think that is much more possible, although I don't know.

And while I think it is possible and not necessarily surprising, I can't see how Doug Bremner could actually know. He doesn't explain how he has come to this conclusion, he just makes it.

I also agree with the other posters about the horrible formatting on Bremner's blog. But I do understand how it ends up looking that way. I have to fight with my blog to keep it readable. The blog programs often do weird things, which is unfortunate. Never the less, you would think he would choose a better base format being a photographer. White and red text on a black background and tiny little fonts..... Horrible.

He might have gotten his source of info elsewhere. Also, people are demanding that he show proof that his sister had a legal complaint filed against the State of Washington over her. They demand that he show them proof. I doubt she would do ANYTHING for those people after the way they've treated her (and continue to treat her). I would believe him. No one is forced to, however.

 

[michellesings]

Is that a shot??? Do I need to get out my gun too???

People could ask Pepperdine who wrote to THEM??? Just a thought. Because they DID.

Also, Jr. works for BBC but has removed his pic from Linkedin after allegations came out. I'm not sure why he would have anything to hide if he's not Harry Rag, though. He shouldn't be afraid.

 

[acbytesla]

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I've often wondered whether Rudy was actually telling the truth about someone else killing Meredith while he was there. It's a very interesting theory, but there's really not a whole lot of evidence to back it up and that's one of the reasons most PIP here won't go for it, plus it opens the door to Rudy maybe being up there with Meredith's blessing and maybe they actually did have sex. The staged break-in theory also comes into question if Meredith invited Rudy up to her flat. How does that work if Rudy was invited up?

Some on he PGP camp tend to believe this is what happened except that Amanda and Raffaele were the "other" two people who killed Meredith instead of someone else other than Rudy, like your theory seems to be trying to say.

Like I said, it's an interesting theory,

d

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I don't buy that there were multiple assailants. I think this is exactly what it appears to be; a mundane, even prosaic burglary that morphed into a sexual attack.

Often what I see on this site are people including myself trying to explain every single loose end. The truth is we don't have or ever will have every answer to each piece of evidence. And trying to do that is in my opinion, a mistake.

Rudy was a burglar. PERIOD. There is more than enough evidence to suggest that the cottage was (at minimum) the fifth burglary that Rudy had committed in about a 35 day span. Rudy admitted being there during a recorded conversation with a friend. Rudy also during that same conversation said Amanda and Raffaele were not there. There is no evidence of any relationship between Raffaele and Rudy and Rudy had only met Amanda briefly. Rudy also came up with bizarre stories to explain the murder. Why would he cover for Amanda and Raffaele considering he didn't really know either?

Rudy said he had a date with Meredith. Something nobody could confirm and most people (with the exception of Grinder) reject.

And contrary to suggestions by the police and others, the climb was and is in fact easy for someone of Rudy's strength, size and athletic abilities. The rock was thrown from outside the window. There is no DNA, footprints or fingerprints of Amanda in Meredith's bedroom even though she lived in the same apartment.

Rudy has motive, both sexual and financial. Rudy has a history of break ins. Rudy left his DNA in the bedroom along with his fingerprints as well as shoe prints that matches the make, size and model of a shoe that the box left in Rudy's apartment. Rudy leaves his DNA even inside Meredith. What's more Rudy admits he was in the room, he tells a story that stranger comes in and murders Meredith while he was on the john. A story beyond fantastic. And Rudy demonstrates a clear consciousness of guilt by fleeing the country.

In contrast Amanda and Raffaele have no motive. The time of death determined by the state of digestion as well as Rudy's statement about the time of Meredith's death exclude Amanda and Raffaele. Amanda and Raffaele stick around and are helpful. Certainly not showing any consciousness of guilt.

Caso Chiuso or should be.

 

[acbytesla]

He might have gotten his source of info elsewhere. Also, people are demanding that he show proof that his sister had a legal complaint filed against the State of Washington over her. They demand that he show them proof. I doubt she would do ANYTHING for those people after the way they've treated her (and continue to treat her). I would believe him. No one is forced to, however.

I'm not saying it isn't John Kercher and if John Kercher is Harry Rag, I don't mind if Doug Bremner or anyone goes after him with both barrels (figuratively, not literally) I also don't care if Doug doesn't provide the proof michelle.

IMHO, I think it is a mistake to say to disclose that Harry Rag is one of the Kerchers without providing the proof along with the evidence. Yes, everyone and his brother unfairly accuses Amanda and Raffaele with anything and everything without proof and the world gives them a free pass. That is wrong. But just because it is wrong, I think we can expect it to continue.

And if there was ironclad proof that one of the Kerchers were Harry Rag, I think that should be sung to the rooftop, but it must include the proof and not just the accusation.

 

[AmyStrange]

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I don't buy that there were multiple assailants. I think this is exactly what it appears to be; a mundane, even prosaic burglary that morphed into a sexual attack.

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I don't think Rudy's first story had multiple assailants. His first story was of one killer he didn't recognize who said something to him before he left Rudy to find Meredith bleeding to death.

This story morphed to Rudy saying there were two other people there and he recognizing Amanda as one of them or something like that.

There's not a whole lot of evidence to support Rudy's version and more evidence supporting the lone murderer theory (Rudy) than there is supporting multiple murderers, in my opinion.

d

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[acbytesla]

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I don't think Rudy's first story had multiple assailants. His first story was of one killer he didn't recognize who said something to him before he left Rudy to find Meredith bleeding to death.

This story morphed to Rudy saying there were two other people there and he recognizing Amanda as one of them or something like that.

There's not a whole lot of evidence to support Rudy's version and more evidence supporting the lone murderer theory (Rudy) than there is supporting multiple murderers, in my opinion.

d

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It didn't. It was some random guy who just came in off the street who stabbed Meredith and ran away when he encountered Rudy. Truly, the most stupid story I have ever heard told by an adult. It reminds me of a story that a 4 or 5 year old will tell when you discover that the cookies were mysteriously eaten. "Well Dad, some guy just broke into the house and took the Oreos. I tried to stop him but he was too big for me".

 

[Strozzi]

Rudy has motive, both sexual and financial. Rudy has a history of break ins. Rudy left his DNA in the bedroom along with his fingerprints as well as shoe prints that matches the make, size and model of a shoe that the box left in Rudy's apartment. Rudy leaves his DNA even inside Meredith. What's more Rudy admits he was in the room, he tells a story that stranger comes in and murders Meredith while he was on the john. A story beyond fantastic. And Rudy demonstrates a clear consciousness of guilt by fleeing the country.

If I may add a few more points and details to acbytesla's excellent summary:

A few weeks before Meredith was murdered, Rudy pulled a knife on a homeowner when he confronted Rudy burglarizing the man's home. Rudy stole another knife during another burglary a week before Meredith was killed.

Meredith, upon returning home, would have locked the front door from the inside with her key, making it impossible for Rudy to sneak out the front door without the key. Rudy needed her key to get out the door.

I believe Rudy, in the toilet, pulled out his knife when he heard someone come in the front door and thus had it in hand at the ready. It is not known if Meredith saw or heard Rudy in her house and fled to her room, or if she was unaware and went to her room. I believe Rudy burst into Meredith's room with his knife in hand and within a few seconds cornered Meredith by her bed.

Basketball players are trained to burst forward with their arms outstretched to contain an opponent. It is an actual training move. Rudy was a semi-pro basketball player.

I suggest readers look at forensic engineer Ron Hendry's detailed analysis of the crime scene evidence. A link to Hendry's analysis interpreting the blood and struggle evidence in Meredith’s room is here (warning: graphic images and descriptions): http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/RonHendry8.html