Continuation Part Seven: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Mary_H]

Mary, we don't actually know that because the recordings are missing. Amanda may have been questioned about how the crime took place. She evidently did not answer any such possible questions in an intelligible way, or the police would have used it. She might have been asked how the crime took place and responded in such a confused way that the police could not use it and do not want it known what delusions they elicited.

Amanda has described what happened at the interrogation, both in the courtroom and in her book. In the interrogation, the police's mission was to get her to implicate Lumumba. In the courtroom, the attorneys' mission was to get her to explain why she implicated Lumumba. No details about how the crime was committed or followed up on have ever been available from any source, because that's not the point of this game.

No matter how unintelligibly she responded to any questions, the police would have used her answers against her. Look how many guilters interpret Amanda's memorials as showing guilt, when they actually show just the opposite.

The recording is missing because it reveals the interrogators' methods and the girl's screaming. The police or prosecutor can't have Italy and the world hear the recording.

If you or I were listening to the recording, we would cue ourselves to listen for the sound of the policewoman striking Amanda twice in the back of the head. It may or may not be audible, although there could be other clues that it occurred. But I doubt that the two hits had anything to do with the police destroying the recording. To them, the hits are an insignificant blip compared to everything else that was recorded. And destroyed.

No, I am pretty sure the recording is missing because of the hits. They are suing Amanda for saying she hit them, not for saying they emotionally or verbally abused her.

 

[codyjuneau]

I just wanted to add that Amanda is not only on trial for murder. She seems to also be undergoing a public trial for every ill-advised thing she has ever said or done. She is on trial for things she has done that people think she should not have done and for thing she hasn't done that people think she should have done. She is on trial for her looks, the way she dresses, her quirks, and the way she expresses herself verbally and in writing. If she doesn't try to explain things, she is hiding something. If she does try to explain things, what she says is exploded beyond all sense of reason and proportion and given a meaning which just is not there.

To get an idea of how that might feel, try to imagine an ongoing public discussion of every stupid thing you ever said or did before the age of 21 where a significant number of energetic participants in the discussion are extremely ill-disposed toward you and really won't listen to what you are trying to say.

As far as I am concerned, Amanda is comporting herself with openness and dignity in an extremely stressful and frustrating situation.

.
Very well said andreajo.

When a person applies for a job, they make a resume. The resume typically summarizes, on one or two pages, everything good the person ever did in their life. Condensing the good like that, can make a significantly positive impression, which is why it is done.

A host of people and media have spent six years analyzing everything about Amanda in order to create a resume summarizing everything bad she ever did or said in her life. And the truth is, they still have squat. In fact, I bet most of them would fair much worse.
.

 

[Grinder]

You know truthfully I was trying to get Grinder going about Candace. Turns out my memory slightly failed me and since I was too lazy to look up the original article... Guess what? It was Seattlepi and A Vogt. (not sure which A Vogt but one of the 3 for sure) Here is the linky poo to that Hellmann mention.

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Change-of-judge-adds-questions-to-Knox-s-appeal-777351.php

Oh yeah, I forgot but Candace is another one that made money.

 

[Bill Williams]

Oh yeah, I forgot but Candace is another one that made money.

"Who" made money. Not as much as the windfall Nadeau navigated....

 

[andreajo]

Oh yeah, I forgot but Candace is another one that made money.

Grinder, I've been meaning to tell you for a long time that I also did not like that Candice Dempsey wrote that sample 36b, the purported Meredith DNA, turned out to be starch. I was just afraid of being beaten up for getting you going again...

I was just learning about the case at the time, and was confused by what she said, since that seemed an impossible result of CV's tests, since there was no material from that sample left to test. I had previously been relying on her blog for factual info. If I'd read it in the Onion, I'd've taken it for a little piece of wit, but I'd come to expect reliable facts from Candice. Then I saw it repeated in comment sections in other articles, which bugged me because it wasn't strictly true.

I don't take blanket exception to her writing. Just the starch comment.

 

[Grinder]

"Who" made money. Not as much as the windfall Nadeau navigated....

Well we don't know the numbers but Candace had the readers' choice true crime novel according to her promo on her blog.

 

[Magister]

snip

No details about how the crime was committed or followed up on have ever been available from any source, because that's not the point of this game.

I have made several posts here challenging the assumption that Guede was the lone wolf killer.
But no-one here (or defence counsel) seems inclined to consider the remaining evidence:
2 cars were parked outside the cottage that night
What were Kokomani and Florio doing nearby?
The break-in to the flat downstairs
Blood stained tissues found outside
Unmatched DNA and prints found in Meredith's room
Forensic evidence found in the downstairs flat

Aviello may have been speaking the truth - no investigation of his/her brother was ever made. He disappeared from Perugia on 2 Nov 2007.
Did the police search for the alleged knife and keys and was a defence lawyer present?
Both brothers were members of the Camorra.
The brutal way in which Meredith was killed tends to suggest a mafioso.
Guede might just be telling the truth when he said he was attacked by a man in the cottage.

As the ISC seems wedded to the idea that it was Guede "and others"
(ie. A and R) I find it strange that defence counsel has not used the above to suggest that there might be an alternative for the others and to press home that no such investigation was carried out by the police.

I agree it's a lot of ifs and maybes but it could cast reasonable doubt.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

lack of thoroughness

Magister,

It would be nice to be able to see the DNA and other results for the blood downstairs, for example. There is also a shoe print in the hallway that has never been matched to any one person. I think that as a legal tactic, your approach makes a good deal of sense, although I am not certain that there were others besides Guede. The tissues outside might be a red herring, but suppose the DNA on them matched the putative semen stain? That is one reason I deplore the apparent lack of thoroughness on the part of the investigators.

 

[Grinder]

snip
I have made several posts here challenging the assumption that Guede was the lone wolf killer.
But no-one here (or defence counsel) seems inclined to consider the remaining evidence:
2 cars were parked outside the cottage that night
What were Kokomani and Florio doing nearby?

Who is Florio? I've suggested here and at the old 'Shock' that another accomplice with more experience than Rudy could have been involved. Rather than a mafioso I would think Albanian 'freedom fighter' trained as a commando. The stab through the neck seemed more of a military style.

The break-in to the flat downstairs
Blood stained tissues found outside
Unmatched DNA and prints found in Meredith's room
Forensic evidence found in the downstairs flat

I think there was no break-in downstairs and the bloody tissues either didn't exist or were explained.

As the ISC seems wedded to the idea that it was Guede "and others"
(ie. A and R) I find it strange that defence counsel has not used the above to suggest that there might be an alternative for the others and to press home that no such investigation was carried out by the police.

I agree it's a lot of ifs and maybes but it could cast reasonable doubt.

I too believe the defense should spend more energy on pointing to the possibility of others and not being A & R. Koko was there, no doubt. He was an Albanian drug dealer.

Rudy could have owed them money for past 'fronted' stuff and they accompanied him to where to thought he could score cash and drugs.

 

[Magister]

halides
Yes there was so much forensic evidence that could have been extremely useful.
But from how many people did they take DNA swabs and prints?
Not from those I mentioned above.
I have little confidence in defence counsel and even less in Nencini.
As you posted earlier today the ISC has given him very precise instructions.

 

[Magister]

Grinder
Florio was an Albanian friend of Antonio Aviello.
I agree re the commando style.
Re the flat downstairs: Stefano's bed was stripped and blood stains were found on the sheet and duvet. Wet flipflops in the bathroom.
The owner of the white car was said to be a drug dealer living in Corso Garibaldi.

 

[RoseMontague]

halides
Yes there was so much forensic evidence that could have been extremely useful.
But from how many people did they take DNA swabs and prints?
Not from those I mentioned above.
I have little confidence in defence counsel and even less in Nencini.
As you posted earlier today the ISC has given him very precise instructions.

Raffaele, Amanda, Meredith, Patrick, and Rudy are the only DNA reference samples I have seen mentioned anywhere including the test results.

 

[RoseMontague]

Grinder
Florio was an Albanian friend of Antonio Aviello.
I agree re the commando style.
Re the flat downstairs: Stefano's bed was stripped and blood stains were found on the sheet and duvet. Wet flipflops in the bathroom.
The owner of the white car was said to be a drug dealer living in Corso Garibaldi.

You have to take Koko with a grain of Cocoa Puffs or maybe a handful of olives. The court actually got something right in disregarding his testimony.

 

[Magister]

Yes Koko totally off the wall.

 

[Grinder]

You have to take Koko with a grain of Cocoa Puffs or maybe a handful of olives. The court actually got something right in disregarding his testimony.

As I recall his being in the vicinity isn't really in doubt. His story was wacky. The question is did the ILE get it right by not checking up on him more.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

putting blinders on

Raffaele, Amanda, Meredith, Patrick, and Rudy are the only DNA reference samples I have seen mentioned anywhere including the test results.

I concur. In addition, the only reference footprints I can recall are from Raffaele, Amanda, and Rudy. Biased forensics in action IMO.

 

[Strozzi]

Grinder
Florio was an Albanian friend of Antonio Aviello.
I agree re the commando style.
Re the flat downstairs: Stefano's bed was stripped and blood stains were found on the sheet and duvet. Wet flipflops in the bathroom.
The owner of the white car was said to be a drug dealer living in Corso Garibaldi.

I have two questions re the suggestion that the knife may have been used in a commando style. Wouldn't any army basic or intermediate training include minimal training on knife use? Is there evidence that the knife assailant had training to a more advanced (commando) level?

In spite of my questions above regarding army training, I do not see the involvement of an army trained individual. I think due to other evidence that it was Rudy who killed Meredith. My observation is that if Rudy grabbed Meredith from behind and wrapped his left hand around the side of her head/face to grasp or cover her mouth or chin area from the left, wouldn't the other hand with the knife naturally come from behind from her right and wrap around her throat with the blade on the left side of her throat?

Does Meredith have one or two brothers? When Rudy is released he could be the target for revenge given the grusome way he slaughtered their sister.

 

[Strozzi]

As I recall his being in the vicinity isn't really in doubt. His story was wacky. The question is did the ILE get it right by not checking up on him more.

Rudy was physically capable to do the break-in and knew the property. He also had recent expeience in this kind of break-in. He is known to have brought or seized a knife with him during burglaries, and in one case Rudy pulled it out to use against the homeowner. Rudy would not need assistance, and would not want to share the loot with an accomplice.

His rent was due. He might have owed money to his drug dealer. But he did not need an accomplice to enter the dark cottage with him.

 

[Magister]

Latest from Frank Sfarzo.... on Bongiorno in court. "An attack too polite"

http://wrongfulconvictionnews.com/a...lecito-appeal-bongiorno-an-attack-too-polite/

 

[Grinder]

I have two questions re the suggestion that the knife may have been used in a commando style. Wouldn't any army basic or intermediate training include minimal training on knife use? Is there evidence that the knife assailant had training to a more advanced (commando) level?

Okay, military training but none of the suspects had that AFAIK.

In spite of my questions above regarding army training, I do not see the involvement of an army trained individual. I think Rudy did it due to other evidence, and my observation is that if Rudy grabbed Meredith from behind and wrapped his left hand around the side of her head/face to grasp or cover her mouth or chin area, wouldn't the other hand with the knife naturally come from behind from her right and wrap around her throat with the blade on the left side of her throat?

Rudy had no violent history that we have been informed about. Could he have done exactly as you describe? Sure, but this has also always seemed an incongruous aspect of the case.

Does Meredith have one or two brothers? I would think that when Rudy is eventually released he could be the target for revenge given the grusome way he slaughtered their sister.

I think that sort of revenge is rare. Rudy took the fast track which seems sort of like a plea deal. I don't think are many good ways to murder someone.