Merged Ukraine erupts in riots and general strike.

[Childlike Empress]

You do realize that the poll numbers you quoted is about the US, not about the EU, right?

Work on your reading comprehension. They are about the perceived danger of Russia to Ukraine and Czech citizens, in relative context. I think I explained it to WildCat already so it can't be that difficult to catch up.

 

[spin0]

Work on your reading comprehension. They are about the perceived danger of Russia to Ukraine and Czech citizens, in relative context. I think I explained it to WildCat already so it can't be that difficult to catch up.

No, the question was about perceived threat to peace in the world (Q8. Which country do you think is the greatest threat to peace in the world today?). And it appears that Ukrainians perceive Russia to be by far bigger threat to the world peace than any EU country.

"Reading comprehension". Yeah, right.

 

[Childlike Empress]

No, the question was about perceived threat to peace in the world (Q8. Which country do you think is the greatest threat to peace in the world today?). And it appears that Ukrainians perceive Russia to be by far bigger threat to the world peace than any EU country.

"Reading comprehension". Yeah, right.

Didn't you just claim that the numbers were "about the US"? "spin0". Yeah, right.

 

[spin0]

Didn't you just claim that the numbers were "about the US"? "spin0". Yeah, right.

I wrote "You do realize that the poll numbers you quoted is about the US, not about the EU, right?", and assuming that by 'Yankistan' you mean the US then indeed your quoted numbers were about the US and not about the EU.

The poll included also this question Q6. If there were no barriers to living in any country of the world, which country would you like to live in?

To which Ukrainians answered:
Switzerland 16%
Germany 11%
Canada 10%
Australia 8%
United States of America 6%
Italy 4%
United Kingdom 4%
France 3%
Spain 3%
United Arab Emirates/any Gulf country (Dubai, Qatar, Bahrain etc) 2%
Other 7%

Interestingly, among Ukrainians Russia didn't seem to get much love compared to western European countries, and also the US is #5 on their preferred countries list.

 

[Childlike Empress]

 

[spin0]

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/99074d54b459448e8.gif[/qimg]

Good, I would be embarassed too.

 

[spin0]

Regarding opinion polls there are surveys measuring Ukrainian's preferences whether to align with the EU or Russia's Customs Union.

November IFAK Ukraine poll shows 58% supports EU membership in the future:

GfK Ukraine poll shows three times the support for the EU Association Agreement compared to Russia's customs union:

And September poll by The Kyiv International Institute of Sociology showed 41% favoring the EU and 35% Russia's Customs Union. Western/Central parts preferred the EU while Russia was mostly supported in Southern/Eastern regions. Interestingly in the demographic breakdown the support for the EU is by far biggest among the young while it's the old that seem to favour Russia's Customs Union which has its strongest support among the >70 year olds:

The results do vary between surveys and in November poll by KIIS the support between those two options was even yet still with the strong East/West and Old/Young divisions.

 

[dudalb]

I see that Putin has found a couple of "Useful Idiots" at JREF......

 

[spin0]

Not sure about the 'useful' part.

 

[Virus]

Russia invented the Useful Idiot. These guys are the pros at manipulating suckers.

 

[L.Y.S.]

You keep asserting this as if it's a revelation from the FSM Almighty. But for us skeptics do you have any, you know, evidence?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Ukraine

More than 60% of Ukraine's exports go to other post-Soviet states, with Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan the most important.

Ukraine imports 90% of its oil and most of its natural gas. Russia ranks as Ukraine's principal supplier of oil, and Russian firms now own and/or operate the majority of Ukraine's refining capacity

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zX4Ek8401I

If the EU does not replace Ukraine's energy and export needs then the bill will be devastating.

 

[L.Y.S.]

Regarding opinion polls there are surveys measuring Ukrainian's preferences whether to align with the EU or Russia's Customs Union.

November IFAK Ukraine poll shows 58% supports EU membership in the future: [qimg]http://i.imgur.com/hshGlrz.jpg[/qimg]

GfK Ukraine poll shows three times the support for the EU Association Agreement compared to Russia's customs union: [qimg]http://i.imgur.com/LdjvEvM.jpg[/qimg]

And September poll by The Kyiv International Institute of Sociology showed 41% favoring the EU and 35% Russia's Customs Union. Western/Central parts preferred the EU while Russia was mostly supported in Southern/Eastern regions. Interestingly in the demographic breakdown the support for the EU is by far biggest among the young while it's the old that seem to favour Russia's Customs Union which has its strongest support among the >70 year olds:
[qimg]http://i.imgur.com/tuRO7c9.jpg[/qimg]

The results do vary between surveys and in November poll by KIIS the support between those two options was even yet still with the strong East/West and Old/Young divisions.

Ukraine supports the EU, but giving the crappy trade deals almost forces the hands of politicians. It was originally desired to integrate closer with the west, but after the details of the trade deal were discovered, it was decided by a fairly large margin that an intact economy with Russia was better. Whether or not this is true is not up for me to decide. What I can say, is that lack of true financial incentive is what led to Ukraine's decision.

 

[Klimax]

That's not "a poll", it's a most recent one published just a couple of days ago. And it doesn't cherry-pick anything but asks a relevant question that's related to what is discussed here. Nothing more, nothing less. You are entitled to your opinion and as the bias is transparent, all is good and well.

You cherry picked results and poll to suit your argument while avoiding direct contradiction to it in same source.

And "a poll" is just "a poll", margin of error tend is higher then any useful result as you cannot poll majority of population short of elections/referendums and any selection of polled people can have and usually has bias.

BTW: You are another person who shouldn't be talking about bias...

 

[Klimax]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Ukraine





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zX4Ek8401I

If the EU does not replace Ukraine's energy and export needs then the bill will be devastating.

If they will give Russian every single time more power over them, then it is no surprise that they grow dependent on Russia...

Youtube video:
Sorry, Russia Today? Seriously? That is one of the worst sources ever. ETA: They are definition of bias and propaganda.

 

[L.Y.S.]

Youtube video:
Sorry, Russia Today? Seriously? That is one of the worst sources ever.

Because it has the name Russia in it no doubt?

 

[LSSBB]

Because it has the name Russia in it no doubt?

Because it's TASS for the 21st century.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/RT

 

[Klimax]

Because it has the name Russia in it no doubt?

That would be first warning, but wouldn't be enough, but content they produce is propaganda. You would have better luck quoting ITAR-TASS, those at least weren't that brutally transparent. Well, you could if Good Leader Putin didn't eliminate it, replacing with proper propaganda center...

 

[spin0]

Ukraine supports the EU, but giving the crappy trade deals almost forces the hands of politicians.

Are you seriously claiming a free access to the EU market with over 500 million consumers and a combined economy of 12.9 trillion euros is a "crappy trade deal"? As trade deals go getting a free access to the market is as sweet as it can get.

It was originally desired to integrate closer with the west, but after the details of the trade deal were discovered, it was decided by a fairly large margin that an intact economy with Russia was better. Whether or not this is true is not up for me to decide. What I can say, is that lack of true financial incentive is what led to Ukraine's decision.

Good story. Unfortunately not true. Obviously the details of the Association Agreement were well known to the Ukraine's government for a very long time, and not suddenly discovered only days before signing it.

What changed the balance of the scales and caused a surprise 180 turn in the last minute was Russia's blackmail as it thretened to wreak havoc on Ukraine's economy if they signed the AA. And to demonstrate his power Putin had implemented embargoes of Ukrainian goods - breaking the WTO rules in the process - with the sole purpose of causing damage to Ukraine's export industries, employment and economy. Those were lifted only after Ukraine signed the Russian loan deal with unfavourable terms.

It's a common tactic Putin has used for years with Ukraine and other sovereign countries neighbouring Russia in his attempts to pressure them to bend to his will (e.g. Latvia, Estonia etc).

 

[spin0]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Ukraine

More than 60% of Ukraine's exports go to other post-Soviet states, with Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan the most important.

Your wikipedia quote is misleading and contradicts the numbers in the very same wikipedia article. So let's go through this one more time.

Ukraine's main trade partner is the EU. Both Ukraine's exports and imports with the EU are bigger than with Russia. In 2012 the value of Ukraine's trade with the EU was €37.7 bn which is almost as big as trade with the whole CIS bloc of former Soviet states (including Russia) at €38.2 bn. In 2012 Ukraine's exports to the EU were about €14.6 bn and to the Russia about €13.3 bn.

I have already posted the relevant figures twice (1, 2) in responses to your previous incorrect claims, and those figures are also supported by the numbers in your quoted wikipedia article:

Main export partners
EU 26.6%
Russia 23.7%
Turkey 6.0%
China 4.1% (2012 est.)

Main import partners
EU 31.2%
Russia 19.4%
China 10.2%
Germany 9.6%
Belarus 7.8%
Poland 7.1% (2012 est.)

If the EU does not replace Ukraine's energy and export needs then the bill will be devastating.

Please explain, why would the EU need to replace those?

 

[trustbutverify]

Because it has the name Russia in it no doubt?

Yea, that's why.

RT is a propaganda organ produced by Russian government media. It regularly features moronic conspiracy theories and presents racist scumbags as "legitimate" commentators. It's a slicker Pravda.

So RT and Wikipedia, huh? I don't know who it was who convinced you you know what you're talking about, but that person was lying.