Continuation Part Seven: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[LondonJohn]

Although a stupid issue here is the Dean's list from 2007 with Amanda on it.

Now we know the PGP, if nothing else, are aces at tracking down everything on the Net, but somehow this has escaped them.

I've already been in touch with a number (of) journalists who have covered the case and made them aware of the Dean's List website. I'm sure they'll appreciate having an unfiltered perspective of the evidence instead of having to rely on The Machine, his acolytes and other maladjusted obsessives for their information. Some of the colpevolisti journalists seem to be genuinely appreciative of the information I've given them. You'd be surprised if you knew who they were. I won't reveal their names because the pro-guilt nutjobs will hassle them. I'll be in contact with literally hundreds of journalists before the verdicts. They'll have no excuses for getting their facts wrong and can expect a phone call or e-mail from their editors if they do. I don't think any news organisation wants to be guilty of shoddy journalism.

PAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!


(For anyone who doesn't understand, of course I haven't done any of the above, nor will I. After all, that sort of behaviour would be the product of a weirdly obsessive (and very possibly personality-disordered) individual, wouldn't it? )

 

[Belz...]

So, are we nearing a verdict on this issue ?

 

[Grinder]

I've already been in touch with a number (of) journalists who have covered the case and made them aware of the Dean's List website. I'm sure they'll appreciate having an unfiltered perspective of the evidence instead of having to rely on The Machine, his acolytes and other maladjusted obsessives for their information. Some of the colpevolisti journalists seem to be genuinely appreciative of the information I've given them. You'd be surprised if you knew who they were. I won't reveal their names because the pro-guilt nutjobs will hassle them. I'll be in contact with literally hundreds of journalists before the verdicts. They'll have no excuses for getting their facts wrong and can expect a phone call or e-mail from their editors if they do. I don't think any news organisation wants to be guilty of shoddy journalism.

PAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!


(For anyone who doesn't understand, of course I haven't done any of the above, nor will I. After all, that sort of behaviour would be the product of a weirdly obsessive (and very possibly personality-disordered) individual, wouldn't it? )

I'm pretty sure TM copyrighted that and will sue even though parody is usually exempt.

It would be great if one of the Marriott controlled reporters would reveal TM real name because he must use a real name to have the impact he does. Don't you think?

So since you have all those emails already, why not ask them to publish his name here on JREF. With his concern for transparency about the case, I'm sure he wouldn't mind.

 

[LondonJohn]

I'm pretty sure TM copyrighted that and will sue even though parody is usually exempt.

It would be great if one of the Marriott controlled reporters would reveal TM real name because he must use a real name to have the impact he does. Don't you think?

So since you have all those emails already, why not ask them to publish his name here on JREF. With his concern for transparency about the case, I'm sure he wouldn't mind.

I think his version of "being in touch" with these journalists consists mainly of sending them repeated twitter messages. I also strongly suspect that his version of journalists being "genuinely appreciative of the information (he's) giving them" is when someone tweets back something like: "Thanks for this - will read when I get a chance".

 

[LondonJohn]

So, are we nearing a verdict on this issue ?

The repeated appeal trial (which is the trial currently in progress) is expected to deliver a verdict in late January.

But that verdict will also then have to be ratified or rejected by the Italian Supreme Court before it becomes final and binding. And that is unlikely to happen for at least a year after the appeal court verdict. If the SC ratifies the appeal court verdict, then the case is finally concluded from the point of view of the Italian judiciary. But if the SC throws out part or all of the appeal court's verdict, then everything goes back to yet another appeal level trial (and subesquent SC ratification/rejection).

Ask a simple question........

 

[acbytesla]

Ask a simple question........

Get a complicated answer.......

 

[Bill Williams]

So, are we nearing a verdict on this issue ?

The repeated appeal trial (which is the trial currently in progress) is expected to deliver a verdict in late January.

But that verdict will also then have to be ratified or rejected by the Italian Supreme Court before it becomes final and binding. And that is unlikely to happen for at least a year after the appeal court verdict. If the SC ratifies the appeal court verdict, then the case is finally concluded from the point of view of the Italian judiciary. But if the SC throws out part or all of the appeal court's verdict, then everything goes back to yet another appeal level trial (and subesquent SC ratification/rejection).

Ask a simple question........

This is what Biongiorno (Raffaele's lawyer) warned about last March, the part about, "I hope this does not become a ping pong match between Cassazione and the lower courts."

In some sense at least a guilty verdict of some kind, as unjust as that would be, ratified by the ISC would give some sort of weird closure. There are people who have followed this for a long time who feel that Nencini will "convict" in a way that requires no more "time served", simply as a way to get rid of this....

.... I don't see it that way, but my record for prediction here is lousy.

This is such a simply, horrible but simple crime. All this is what Mignini has wrought because he (and or Napoleoni) couldn't admit they closed the case on the three wrong people back on Nov 6, 2007.

The Kerchers deserve better, amongst a whole host of other people.

Maybe Nencini will convict Amanda for not flushing Laura's/Filomena's toilet.... that will keep Crini happy at least....

 

[Grinder]

This is what Biongiorno (Raffaele's lawyer) warned about last March, the part about, "I hope this does not become a ping pong match between Cassazione and the lower courts."

Amanda Knox's third murder trial began in an Italian courtroom today with her lawyer asking the court whether it was fair that she be "tried endlessly."

 

[kwill]

In some sense at least a guilty verdict of some kind, as unjust as that would be, ratified by the ISC would give some sort of weird closure. There are people who have followed this for a long time who feel that Nencini will "convict" in a way that requires no more "time served", simply as a way to get rid of this....

Possible results:
1. Convicted again and back the ISC for confirmation.
2. Acquitted again and back to the ISC for review.

Either way, it's not going to be done. Somebody said that it's like in the USA when one house of congress passes a law. Must be passed by the other house, then signed by the president, then upheld by whatever court it gets taken to, up to the US SC. These aren't appeals in the sense that we have them in the USA; they're part of an extended automatic process.

This process is never really going to end. Never. This is why I have so much respect for the direction Amanda has taken . . . publicly sticking up for other wrongly convicted people. Her voice is going to matter.

The way I see it, she's like one of those people who gets some kind of rare disease and becomes an advocate for its cure instead of letting the random injustice of the thing destroy her.

 

[katy_did]

The repeated appeal trial (which is the trial currently in progress) is expected to deliver a verdict in late January.

Do we know if there are any confirmed dates for the current appeal trial and verdict yet? IIRC Nencini set the 9th for Sollecito's defence's closing argument, and back at the beginning of the trial he set the 15th for the verdict but I'm not sure if that still holds.

 

[MichaelB]

Do we know if there are any confirmed dates for the current appeal trial and verdict yet? IIRC Nencini set the 9th for Sollecito's defence's closing argument, and back at the beginning of the trial he set the 15th for the verdict but I'm not sure if that still holds.

20th for the verdict apparently.

 

[Grinder]

I think his version of "being in touch" with these journalists consists mainly of sending them repeated twitter messages. I also strongly suspect that his version of journalists being "genuinely appreciative of the information (he's) giving them" is when someone tweets back something like: "Thanks for this - will read when I get a chance".

It is crucial that all PIP write to all the journalists, university and government officials that are being written to by the PGP and give them links to some of the whack job or hate filled comments they have been posting for years. These poor people need to be warned about these hate filled and crazed people.

The UW needs to know that one of their employees is running a board while at work.

Someone also needs to warn Marriott and make sure the boiler-room is fully staffed.

 

[Bill Williams]

It is crucial that all PIP write to all the journalists, university and government officials that are being written to by the PGP and give them links to some of the whack job or hate filled comments they have been posting for years. These poor people need to be warned about these hate filled and crazed people.

The UW needs to know that one of their employees is running a board while at work.

Someone also needs to warn Marriott and make sure the boiler-room is fully staffed.

Do not worry - David Marriott has hired extra internet posters to flood the internet with PR Supertanker propaganda.

I did not make the cut. I blew it on the application question when Marriott asked the prospective internet-flooder their opinion of Jacqueline Susann as a writer. I said she sucked... my application went to the bottom of the pile.

 

[kwill]

The UW needs to know that one of their employees is running a board while at work.

???

 

[katy_did]

20th for the verdict apparently.

Thanks Michael, was that something Nencini said at the last hearing?

The only things left now are Bongiorno/Maori's closing arguments and the prosecution rebuttals, starting on the 9th but probably going on till the 10th or longer. If the verdict isn't until the 20th that seems like a long time between closing arguments and the verdict, at least by comparison with the last appeal, where I think the verdict came shortly after the closing arguments (if I'm not misremembering!).

 

[Grinder]

The UW needs to know that one of their employees is running a board while at work.

???

BY ANDREA VOGT, SPECIAL TO SEATTLEPI.COM

Another Seattle area couple, Kathleen and Randy Jackson, are also considering filing police reports. Both post under aliases on the Perugia Murder File site and have been criticized for attending a recent fund-raiser for Knox. Jackson, who said she is a former victim of sexual assault, said she went to the event because she felt Kercher's memory was being overlooked in the effort to raise money for Knox.

"It had been announced everywhere as this high-profile fund-raiser, so I wanted to go where this big news was happening and show a different side of Seattle, because I grew up there, and I was embarrassed," Kathleen Jackson said.

But after the couple did an interview on a local Seattle television station covering the event, the negative attention grew fiercer, but oddly, just toward Kathleen, who posts on Perugia Murder File as "Professor Snape." Randy, an educational technology professional at the University of Washington who posts as "Fly By Night," is just as active on the forum. "Both Kathleen and I talked to the reporter, but only she's been called out," Randy Jackson said. "These individuals seem to more frequently target women."


Hopefully that can be rectified.

 

[kwill]

BY ANDREA VOGT, SPECIAL TO SEATTLEPI.COM

Another Seattle area couple, Kathleen and Randy Jackson, are also considering filing police reports. Both post under aliases on the Perugia Murder File site and have been criticized for attending a recent fund-raiser for Knox. Jackson, who said she is a former victim of sexual assault, said she went to the event because she felt Kercher's memory was being overlooked in the effort to raise money for Knox.

"It had been announced everywhere as this high-profile fund-raiser, so I wanted to go where this big news was happening and show a different side of Seattle, because I grew up there, and I was embarrassed," Kathleen Jackson said.

But after the couple did an interview on a local Seattle television station covering the event, the negative attention grew fiercer, but oddly, just toward Kathleen, who posts on Perugia Murder File as "Professor Snape." Randy, an educational technology professional at the University of Washington who posts as "Fly By Night," is just as active on the forum. "Both Kathleen and I talked to the reporter, but only she's been called out," Randy Jackson said. "These individuals seem to more frequently target women."


Hopefully that can be rectified.

Ugh, I see. He's a co-administrator at PMF and also on the payroll at UW's school of dentistry as an expert in educational technology.

Remind me not to go over to PMF again . . . they're like a gang of hungry feral cats chasing what they think are mice but are actually little windup toys. Every time they catch one, it turns out to be not as juicy as they'd hoped, but they chew it up anyway.

It's just disturbing.

 

[Strozzi]

Ugh, I see. He's a co-administrator at PMF and also on the payroll at UW's school of dentistry as an expert in educational technology.

Remind me not to go over to PMF again . . . they're like a gang of hungry feral cats chasing what they think are mice but are actually little windup toys. Every time they catch one, it turns out to be not as juicy as they'd hoped, but they chew it up anyway.

It's just disturbing.

I have also looked at posts on PMF, including recent posts by "Fly by Night". Many posters on both this blog and PMF are deeply interested in physical evidence. An important difference is that most posters on this site tend to adhere to modern scientific methods as applied to evidence contamination, evidence processing, analysis (including repeatability), and evidence preservation.

 

[RoseMontague]

Thanks Michael, was that something Nencini said at the last hearing?

The only things left now are Bongiorno/Maori's closing arguments and the prosecution rebuttals, starting on the 9th but probably going on till the 10th or longer. If the verdict isn't until the 20th that seems like a long time between closing arguments and the verdict, at least by comparison with the last appeal, where I think the verdict came shortly after the closing arguments (if I'm not misremembering!).

Hopefully it will give them time to review some transcripts so they can determine for themselves who is making stuff up about the evidence and who is not. I expect Bongiorno's arguments to be very strong.

 

[LondonJohn]

I have also looked at posts on PMF, including recent posts by "Fly by Night". Many posters on both this blog and PMF are deeply interested in physical evidence. An important difference is that most posters on this site tend to adhere to modern scientific methods as applied to evidence contamination, evidence processing, analysis (including repeatability), and evidence preservation.

I'd say that the most important difference is this: most pro-guilt commentators are primarily interested in (and driven by) seeing Knox and Sollecito convicted for the murder and punished accordingly, and appear to view all the evidence (and lack of evidence) through this lens. Facts and interpretations appear to be twisted to fit this overarching aim, and contradictory evidence (and lack of evidence) is either swept under the carpet, waved away, or rationalised to "fit" the guilty theory.

On the other hand, most (not all, but most) pro-acquittal/pro-innocence commentators appear to have no starting premise and an open mind. They try to look at the evidence (and lack of evidence) objectively, and draw conclusions from it, with the constant possibility of changing those conclusions if new contradictory evidence comes to light. Such commentators have reached the conclusion that Knox and Sollecito should be acquitted (and that they very probably had nothing whatsoever to do with the murder) only based on the evidence; if credible, reliable incriminating evidence ever came to light, then such commentators would have no problem modifying or even completely reversing their conclusions.

Oh, and many pro-guilt commentators also appear to be malevolent, misanthropic, bitter, vindictive, damaged individuals as well. That's another difference.......