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Continuation Part Seven: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

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bri1 said:
Not to say that there was evidence that Rudy had sexually assaulted anyone before Meredith, but there are people who've said that Rudy was known for harassing women in clubs and such. As a woman who's traveled fairly extensively in Italy I would remark that for anyone to stand out in this way in Italy, where sexual harassment is rife, is saying something.
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Yeah but this also came out after the fact, just like most of the stuff about Amanda. These reports weren't given before he was a killer and rapist.

Italian in my day were known for pitching asses and the described behavior was more of hitting on them in bars.

Unfortunately when boys / men talk in this kind of way to each other (although this is a fairly tame example), they do so thinking it's just a joke, we're just having a bit of 'banter'. But they do so within a context where (in the UK at least) 1 in every 4 women says that they have been raped. So they're contributing to rape culture, and it's likely that if you talk in this way a lot, at some point you'll do so to a rapist, and will have been part of normalising this way of viewing women for them.
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Fools rush in where angels fear to thread...

It's pretty shocking how disgusting guys can be- just look up football pundit Richard Keys' comments to player Jamie Redknapp about an ex-girlfriend, Louise Glass. And he's a flipping grown up who should know better.
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There is no football players with those names. Are you talking about that wimping sport soccer? :p
 
Apparently Maresca said yesterday, if the rock broke the window, how come there is no trace of it in the middle of the room? Why did it suddenly turn left and drop into the shopping bag?
The answer is so clearly in the photographs that the rock hit the right hand frame of the shutter which was slightly open, the glass flew forward past the left edge, and the rock was turned by the shutter as momentum was transferred to the shutter.
It is unbelievable Maresca could say this after six years and not be challenged.
The staged break in is a pillar of the prosecution for him, and he makes easily falsifiable statements about it.
 
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Grinder said:
Yeah but this also came out after the fact, just like most of the stuff about Amanda. These reports weren't given before he was a killer and rapist.

Italian in my day were known for pitching asses and the described behavior was more of hitting on them in bars.



Fools rush in where angels fear to thread...



There is no football players with those names. Are you talking about that wimping sport soccer? :p
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True enough, regarding these accounts of Rudy's behaviour being given after the fact. You're right, this does certainly introduce an element of bias.

Football, soccer, it's all just men kicking a ball around to me!
 
Samson said:
I have seen that video before, thanks for the memory, heartrending, and to think it's still happening to her.
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I think seconds 7 - 20 make it pretty clear to the world how Knox reacts to strong emotional shocks. There is no killer there, probably not even in self defense.
 
I wish her letter was a little more specific about bad evidence.

I haven't seen what her defense put forward and I certainly hope they coordinated, but I would emphasized that the so-called evidence didn't match her but was only alleged to be compatible. I would hope someone pointed out that the luminol prints were not even proven to be in blood or left that night. There was no evidence of a cleanup that would have removed the "missing" footprints.

The DNA was not done properly and at worst their finding were consistant with secondary transfer or contamination in the lab. Further the video of the collections shows that the top DNA technician for the police didn't follow protocol and she is the one that claims her lab has never had contamination. How would she know? The only independent experts said the DNA wasn't reliable.

The best witness they had was a heroin addict admittingly high on heroin the night he claims to have seen them and he had most every detail wrong.

ETA - Hope the defense said something about TOD.
 
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moodstream said:
Machiavelli, this woman is not a killer.

She just doesn't have it in her. Show me - don't tell me - anything to the contrary, please.
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On this, we can completely agree.

Anyone who watches this without a hopelessly cynical mindset should immediately get a measure of this human being's fundamental nature. She is absolutely - almost painfully - ingenuous; like a Jane Austen heroine before her lessons learned. And ripe picking, of course, for the likes of Mignini, the various litigators, and the assorted half-wit internet denizens who have painted her with such an absurdly broad and cruel brush.
 
Grinder said:
I wish her letter was a little more specific about bad evidence.

I haven't seen what her defense put forward and I certainly hope they coordinated, but I would emphasized that the so-called evidence didn't match her but was only alleged to be compatible. I would hope someone pointed out that the luminol prints were not even proven to be in blood or left that night. There was no evidence of a cleanup that would have removed the "missing" footprints.

The DNA was not done properly and at worst their finding were consistant with secondary transfer or contamination in the lab. Further the video of the collections shows that the top DNA technician for the police didn't follow protocol and she is the one that claims her lab has never had contamination. How would she know? The only independent experts said the DNA wasn't reliable.

The best witness they had was a heroin addict admittingly high on heroin the night he claims to have seen them and he had most every detail wrong.

ETA - Hope the defense said something about TOD.
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Here is Andrea Vogt's synopsis of the day in court, with the defense arguments in bullet points...

http://thefreelancedesk.com/front_featured/amanda-knox-appeal-2/
 
Grinder said:
No it's not. It's juvenile boy/man talk.

There is no more information that Rudy was a rapist than there is information that Amanda slept with drug dealers.
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Ah, Grinder. Ever contrary.

If he were quoted as saying he wanted to bang Amanda (or another young woman), then that would be juvenile boy/man talk, and no-one could really object, beyond saying it was a tasteless way to refer to someone who had shown no interest in him. But Mach quotes him as saying that he intended to bang her - without considering her wishes.

I guess you are right that we have no information that Guede had ever actually committed rape before attacking Meredith, but IMO it makes more sense to regard his reported words as the sentiments of a rapist rather than the guilters' theme that it implies any kind of mutual interest (it doesn't). And that's without even taking into account the knowledge that he went on at least to attempt the rape of Meredith as she lay choking in her own blood.
 
js202 said:
On this, we can completely agree.

Anyone who watches this without a hopelessly cynical mindset should immediately get a measure of this human being's fundamental nature. She is absolutely - almost painfully - ingenuous; like a Jane Austen heroine before her lessons learned. And ripe picking, of course, for the likes of Mignini, the various litigators, and the assorted half-wit internet denizens who have painted her with such an absurdly broad and cruel brush.
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You're right, thanks. Maybe someday we can discuss our views towards ethics. know you must have a lot of good points to make. I think I felt a little defensive in my last reply ( although I spared you a long screed about our putting small pox in the blankets we traded to the Indians and etc.)
 
js202 said:
On this, we can completely agree.

Anyone who watches this without a hopelessly cynical mindset should immediately get a measure of this human being's fundamental nature. She is absolutely - almost painfully - ingenuous; like a Jane Austen heroine before her lessons learned. And ripe picking, of course, for the likes of Mignini, the various litigators, and the assorted half-wit internet denizens who have painted her with such an absurdly broad and cruel brush.
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.
Raffaele and Amanda must be on the short list for the two most innocuous people ever accused of murder.

ETA: iKnoxuous ?
.
 
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Several Italian court observers viewed the letter via email as an “own goal” having witnessed the presiding judge raise his eyebrows in obvious annoyance at having to himself read aloud an email from Knox, who requested an appeal, but is refusing to attend it, for reasons she detailed.
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This is such an outrageous lie that's been spread around by guilters of late. Knox's appeal against the calunnia charge was struck down by the high court. Sollecito didn't appeal at all. The sole reason this trial is happening is that the prosecution appealed the acquittal and Cassation sided with them. If you have to engage in elaborate rhetorical contortions to make the process sound fair, maybe, just maybe, the process isn't actually fair.
 
Antony said:
Ah, Grinder. Ever contrary.

If he were quoted as saying he wanted to bang Amanda (or another young woman), then that would be juvenile boy/man talk, and no-one could really object, beyond saying it was a tasteless way to refer to someone who had shown no interest in him. But Mach quotes him as saying that he intended to bang her - without considering her wishes.
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Contrary to what? Mach was doing his usual fabrication. Rudy wasn't reported by anyone with that exact quote as I recall but did tell the boys he was interested. Mach only quoted the word "bang" not "intended" and I'd guess he was speaking in Italian so he didn't say bang at all. Even the expression "I intend to bang her" or "I intend to seduce her" or I intend to get into bed is not indicative of his being a rapist.
That kind of thinking or false logic is exactly what the prosecution and the PGP have used against Amanda and Raf from the beginning.

Kisses, cartwheels, kill for a pizza, hosting a violent party, rape prank etc.

Oh Rudy said he wanted to have sex with Amanda so he is obviously the murderer rapist - ridiculous. You are being contrary to logic and jumping to the most absurd conclusion. ...therefore Rudy is a rapist.

Even if you wish to pursue this "quote" of Mach's there is nothing in it that indicates he planned to force himself on her. Clearly Rudy believed she would welcome the advances.

I guess you are right that we have no information that Guede had ever actually committed rape before attacking Meredith, but IMO it makes more sense to regard his reported words as the sentiments of a rapist rather than the guilters' theme that it implies any kind of mutual interest (it doesn't). And that's without even taking into account the knowledge that he went on at least to attempt the rape of Meredith as she lay choking in her own blood.
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There is no evidence that he raped anyone or forced anyone to have sex or abused women or anything of the sort. He was a pest in bars when he was high and stole from their purses.

Suddenly what Mach says is a report?
 
charlatan said:
This is such an outrageous lie that's been spread around by guilters of late. Knox's appeal against the calunnia charge was struck down by the high court. Sollecito didn't appeal at all. The sole reason this trial is happening is that the prosecution appealed the acquittal and Cassation sided with them. If you have to engage in elaborate rhetorical contortions to make the process sound fair, maybe, just maybe, the process isn't actually fair.
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Great point. The system and the players do seem to be jokes.
 
The english version of her letter is very nicely written. Almost too well written. Did she right her self? She has become a very effective writer if that's the case.
 
Grinder said:
Contrary to what? Mach was doing his usual fabrication. Rudy wasn't reported by anyone with that exact quote as I recall but did tell the boys he was interested. Mach only quoted the word "bang" not "intended" and I'd guess he was speaking in Italian so he didn't say bang at all.
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Of course we don't know what the original Italian words were. It's curious that Mach places the word "bang" in quotes but not the word "intend".
Even the expression "I intend to bang her" or "I intend to seduce her" or I intend to get into bed is not indicative of his being a rapist.
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I said it was rapist's talk. It doesn't necessarily mean that Guede had committed rape at that time - just that he wasn't particularly concerned with the wishes the woman.

You can disagree if you wish, but I don't think it's worth this amount of bandwidth, quite honestly. We do know that Guede went on to attempt the rape of Meredith at knife-point.
That kind of thinking or false logic is exactly what the prosecution and the PGP have used against Amanda and Raf from the beginning.

Kisses, cartwheels, kill for a pizza, hosting a violent party, rape prank etc.

Oh Rudy said he wanted to have sex with Amanda so he is obviously the murderer rapist - ridiculous. You are being contrary to logic and jumping to the most absurd conclusion. ...therefore Rudy is a rapist.

Even if you wish to pursue this "quote" of Mach's there is nothing in it that indicates he planned to force himself on her. Clearly Rudy believed she would welcome the advances.
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Why "clearly"?
There is no evidence that he raped anyone or forced anyone to have sex or abused women or anything of the sort.
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Sorry - you're not making sense. You do agree that the state of Meredith's corpse indicated exactly that, don't you?
He was a pest in bars when he was high and stole from their purses.

Suddenly what Mach says is a report?
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The point is that Mach was trying to make his claim stand up that Amanda and Guede had an intimate relationship. In support of that he quotes Guede as saying that he intends to bang Amanda, without any indication that the attraction was mutual.
 
Machiavelli said:
Fact is, Knox and Sollecito got 26-25 years in their first instance trial. That is, 24 years for murder and rape. The additional penalties are for staging and calunnia. (all this in a regular trial, with no fast track reduction).

Guede got 30 years in his first instance trial.
Then he got 16 years on his appeal (this equates to getting 24 years in a regular trial). So he got mitigation only on his appeal.

This means, obviously, Knox and Sollecito got a more favoruable treatment than Guede.

(Not to speak about the fact that Knox and Sollecito even got a ridiculous acquittal for murder on their appeal...)
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Lol, everything with you and your country is so incredibly convoluted, smh.....

given your choice of screen name, I think we're being trolled
 
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