Continuation Part Seven: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[andreajo]

As someone very interested in photography, I can tell you that in optimum lighting conditions a constricted pupil does not effect the ability to see at a distance. However, it absolutely does effect the ability to see at a distance in less than optimum lighting conditions. The constricting or dilation of the pupils control the amount of light to hit the retina. Too much light and the person is blinded by light, too little light and you can't see either.

So during the day, Toto's distance vision would NOT be impaired, but at night it would in fact be severely impaired. The best way to understand this would be to adjust a camera's shutter settings and take pictures. Closing the shutter opening in the daytime could improve the quality of the picture, making it look less washed out and actually improve the image.

However, at night, you need all the light you can get. So when taking pictures at night the first thing you do is open the shutter all the way trying to get as much light as possible to the film or the CCD. This is why our eyes dilate at night. They are trying to allow as much light as possible to reach our retinas. Constricted pupils at night would have the effect of turning over head lights into candles. Toto's ability to see detail at night at any distance would be significantly worse than the average person.

Was he wearing bifocals or reading glasses? At his age, the lenses do not easily change from reading a newspaper to seeing someone across the park. My parallel experience would be hemming pants and then looking up and trying to see the TV.

In any case, I think his memory might be more of an issue than his eyes...

 

[charlatan]

No, but there is this repeated assertions of Guede that he was aroused by Amanda and he intended to "bang her", and his friends confirming he had the habit of hangng out with "American female students", and he would talk about Amanda (he apparently was never interested in Meredith).

You haven't thought this through. Why would Guede say anything remotely raunchy about Meredith in the presence of Giacomo or his circle of friends?

Mez was quite attractive. Unless you can cite specific evidence that Guede claimed to lack interest in Meredith, or had an exclusive interest in American college girls we can throw this point on the garbage heap with the rest of the special pleadings.

 

[Antony]

(Not to speak about the fact that Knox and Sollecito even got a ridiculous acquittal for murder on their appeal...)

Say what you like, Machiavelli, but the reality is that Hellman acted correctly in acquitting AK and RS (though illegally in convicting AK of callunia), and neither you nor the ISC have ever offered even one justification in law for their ordering of the current illegal Double Jeopardy trial.

All they have is a set of implausible quibbles over Hellman's assessment of the evidence, based on nothing other than that they didn't like his conclusions.

 

[Strozzi]

No, but there is this repeated assertions of Guede that he was aroused by Amanda and he intended to "bang her", and his friends confirming he had the habit of hangng out with "American female students", and he would talk about Amanda (he apparently was never interested in Meredith).

Machiavelli, Guede's crass statement to his Italian guy acquaintances about what he'd like to do to Knox reflects on Guede's lustful desires and his expression of his fantasy act. It has no probative value in this case regarding Knox. It might have probative value in looking at what Guede did sexually with dying Kerscher.

It might also be a good indication of what violent physical attack Guede would have done to Knox had she been the one to come home at 9 pm that tragic night in 2007. Knox has observed (rightly, in my view) that she could have been killed, too, if she had been home that night.

 

[NancyS]

I think it would be a rare person that could recognise two people they had never met, from a distance and at night - and then hold onto that memory for at least 5-days when he would see Amanda and Raffaele in the news following their arrest. Both Amanda and Raffaele are mousy haired, plainly dressed and have no instantly recognisable features and I can't imagine they would stand out from the thousands of other students in Perugia

 

[Grinder]

BS. It's a lie. Prove it.

He said what everybody can read in his closing arguments: an umpremeditated sexual hazing that burst out on a backgrpound of personal grudges, which went out of control because the participants were on drugs and alcohol.

Now, we are back to only court documents? I think we can find many news reports that say a rite of some sort was involved. More of those than the one article on the alleged cocaine dealer you point to as a fact.

There was no background of personal grudges unless Meredith had some. There is nothing in the record of Amanda expressing any problems she had with Meredith and as you have pointed out Amanda wasn't very circumspect.

No, but there is this repeated assertions of Guede that he was aroused by Amanda and he intended to "bang her", and his friends confirming he had the habit of hangng out with "American female students", and he would talk about Amanda (he apparently was never interested in Meredith).

I'm sorry but there was some mention that he was interested in Amanda the first time he met, which wasn't in some cafe but with the boys from downstairs in the street after a night of pubbing.

He had a habit of hanging out with girls, like a lot of us. The two last nights before the murder he was out with Spanish girls.

Please produce the history of Rudy talking about Amanda. If he had "intended to 'bang'" her that would mean he hadn't therefore hadn't traded drugs for sex.

 

[Grinder]

.

Anyway Curatolo is only a marginal witness. He does not actually provide any determinant information. The defendatns alibies are already proven to be false, independently from Curatolo's testimony.

Then why don't they drop him? No, he is the only alleged witness to the kids not being at Raf's. The prosecution has in no way proved the alibis to be false.

 

[acbytesla]

Was he wearing bifocals or reading glasses? At his age, the lenses do not easily change from reading a newspaper to seeing someone across the park. My parallel experience would be hemming pants and then looking up and trying to see the TV.

In any case, I think his memory might be more of an issue than his eyes...

I don't know Andrea. But I know what you are talking about as my close up vision keeps getting worse. Still fine at a distance though.

Frankly, I think Curatolo is a bald faced liar and testified for the attention and favors. There is nothing logical about his testimony.

Either Curatolo convinced himself of this by conflating multiple events, days and times and things he read in the paper or he he was bribed. He clearly can't remember whether it was Halloween or November 1st.

Even if Curatolo saw something that night, I doubt it was Amanda and Raffaele. I don't think for one second that Curatolo could have id'd anyone that dark November night. I doubt that Amanda and Raffaele would have put themselves withing 20 meters of the junkie bum and I don't think there is any way in hell Rudy would have been able to make their faces out at a distance.

Even with good vision, it would have been difficult. But in the dark by someone with poor night vision...no way.

 

[Diocletus]

And how many knives belonging to the Real murderer or from the murderers flat did he catalogue? None. Wow

Well, none. But the did get his toothbrush. Very menacing.

 

[Diocletus]

What I don't understand is why Gubbiotti felt the need to change gloves when he was cataloguing the items in the police station. The items were already bagged and tagged: they were in sealed bags (well, except for the knife, which he unsealed).

Personally, this makes me think that he was lying about the gloves.

Further to this point, if Gubbiotti was changing his gloves when handling the sealed evidence bags, this suggests that Gubbiotti was afraid either of transferring his DNA to the outside of the evidence bags, or of cross contaminating with DNA already on the outside of the evidence bags.

Isn't that an implicit recognition that the outside of the sealed evidence bags can act as an agent for transferring DNA, e.g., DNA found at the crime site where the bag was deployed and handled by the person who was handling the collected evidence, i.e., the items soaked in the victim's blood.

 

[kwill]

Amanda's letter to the court

Is anybody else struck by the width of the gap between the slutty, vicious girl portrayed for so long in the tabloid press and the calm, clear voice of the woman herself?

Everything about that letter -- and the website itself -- speak of gentleness, strength, intelligence, class, and honesty. I think the guilters are right to see this as a PR move (altho' it's clearly a legal one as well). When the press follows the link to that website, they're going to see a person radically different from the one they were led to expect.

Which is the point.

 

[Antony]

No, but there is this repeated assertions of Guede that he was aroused by Amanda and he intended to "bang her", and his friends confirming he had the habit of hangng out with "American female students", and he would talk about Amanda (he apparently was never interested in Meredith).

This is rapist's talk. Clearly, the intentions of Guede's object of desire were not a consideration as far as he was concerned. Amanda was clearly in some danger with him around, and it's only a matter of chance that Meredith ended up has his immediate victim instead of her.

 

[Grinder]

This is rapist's talk. Clearly, the intentions of Guede's object of desire were not a consideration as far as he was concerned. Amanda was clearly in some danger with him around, and it's only a matter of chance that Meredith ended up has his immediate victim instead of her.

No it's not. It's juvenile boy/man talk.

There is no more information that Rudy was a rapist than there is information that Amanda slept with drug dealers.

 

[bri1]

Then why don't they drop him? No, he is the only alleged witness to the kids not being at Raf's. The prosecution has in no way proved the alibis to be false.

Grinder, what evidence was Mach referring to here? If Toto's evidence were acknowledged to be false / unreliable, as far as I can see, there is no evidence that they were not exactly where they said they were... I'm confused as to how Mach can state this.
DNA cannot be dated. Rudy is obviously not credible on this point. Even if it was shown that Amanda went to Quintaville's shop in the morning, although this is a little support for Prosecution's theories, it isn't a serious piece of evidence.

 

[Grinder]

Grinder, what evidence was Mach referring to here? If Toto's evidence were acknowledged to be false / unreliable, as far as I can see, there is no evidence that they were not exactly where they said they were... I'm confused as to how Mach can state this.
DNA cannot be dated. Rudy is obviously not credible on this point. Even if it was shown that Amanda went to Quintaville's shop in the morning, although this is a little support for Prosecution's theories, it isn't a serious piece of evidence.

I don't know but some round about reasoning that they must have staged and therefore were not there or that the footprint must be Raf's because it can't be Rudy's ...I really don't know what we'll be treated to.

It is clear that they have insisted on keeping him because he is the only thing they have to disprove their alibi. Their case hangs by the threads of the knife DNA, bra DNA, Curatolo and compatible footprints.

 

[NancyS]

Is anybody else struck by the width of the gap between the slutty, vicious girl portrayed for so long in the tabloid press and the calm, clear voice of the woman herself?

Everything about that letter -- and the website itself -- speak of gentleness, strength, intelligence, class, and honesty. I think the guilters are right to see this as a PR move (altho' it's clearly a legal one as well). When the press follows the link to that website, they're going to see a person radically different from the one they were led to expect.

Which is the point.

I agree, that letter is incredibly powerful and I really hope that it is widely read. This is everything I wanted her to say in her interviews

I think the prosecution may now be regretting feeding the media beast and helping to create the obsession with Amanda

 

[Strozzi]

It is clear that they have insisted on keeping him because he is the only thing they have to disprove their alibi. Their case hangs by the threads of the knife DNA, bra DNA, Curatolo and compatible footprints.

Does the current prosecution believe this stuff themselves, or are they just stuck with what they have been given by the prosecutor's office in Perugia?

 

[Bill Williams]

Please produce the history of Rudy talking about Amanda. If he had "intended to 'bang'" her that would mean he hadn't therefore hadn't traded drugs for sex.

Nice catch, Grinder. But be prepared for a dietrological response. I get the feeling you can handle it, though.

This is the very problem with this approach. Machiavelli insists on being able to say everything.... that the situation is "compatible" with Rudy and Amanda exchanging sex for drugs, but then when it suits him otherwise, he can say what he says above...

This is the kind of thing RS and AK have faced since the beginning. It's why Raffaele says in his book, that just when he thought they'd straighten it out all they'd be hit with another layer of guilt-like baffle-gab.

First it's crazy making - then the only appropriate response is to get mad - and expose people like Machiavelli for what he is arguing.

ETA - did you note how Machiavelli quietly slipped into the conversation that Curatolo is no longer needed?

 

[bri1]

No it's not. It's juvenile boy/man talk.

There is no more information that Rudy was a rapist than there is information that Amanda slept with drug dealers.

Not to say that there was evidence that Rudy had sexually assaulted anyone before Meredith, but there are people who've said that Rudy was known for harassing women in clubs and such. As a woman who's traveled fairly extensively in Italy I would remark that for anyone to stand out in this way in Italy, where sexual harassment is rife, is saying something.

Unfortunately when boys / men talk in this kind of way to each other (although this is a fairly tame example), they do so thinking it's just a joke, we're just having a bit of 'banter'. But they do so within a context where (in the UK at least) 1 in every 4 women says that they have been raped. So they're contributing to rape culture, and it's likely that if you talk in this way a lot, at some point you'll do so to a rapist, and will have been part of normalising this way of viewing women for them.

It's pretty shocking how disgusting guys can be- just look up football pundit Richard Keys' comments to player Jamie Redknapp about an ex-girlfriend, Louise Glass. And he's a flipping grown up who should know better.

 

[bri1]

I don't know but some round about reasoning that they must have staged and therefore were not there or that the footprint must be Raf's because it can't be Rudy's ...I really don't know what we'll be treated to.

It is clear that they have insisted on keeping him because he is the only thing they have to disprove their alibi. Their case hangs by the threads of the knife DNA, bra DNA, Curatolo and compatible footprints.

Ahhh, staging and footprint. Gotcha. Didn't even occur to me, because neither are actually pieces of evidence against the defendants!
Thanks for the assist, Grinder.