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Continuation Part Seven: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

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If this AP report of Maresca's presentation in court is at all accurate (as to what Maresca said) it simply highlights that Maresca is not interested in the truth....

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/victims-lawyer-seeks-knox-conviction-murder

Francesco Maresca, in his closing arguments on behalf of the Kercher family in the third trial of Knox and co-defendant Raffaele Sollecito, urged the eight lay jurors on the panel of 10 to disregard publicity over the case as well as Knox's own statements, including her criticism of Italy's judicial system.

"She has become a well-known person. You know she signed contracts for millions of dollars for her book. She has someone who takes care of her public relations. She has a personal website where she invites people to collect donations in the memory of the victim, Meredith Kercher, which is an unbearable contradiction for the family," Maresca said.

He said the world's attention has focused on Knox, while "the victim has fallen into oblivion, to the immense pain of the Kercher family."
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So let's get this straight. Even Amanda Knox wants Meredith to be remembered, but when she posts a link to the fund raising page for Meredith's family... that's off base? All this is the weird logic of this case.

It is also not true that Knox's web site solicits funds for herself. She does have a link to Raffaele's fund raising page. I suppose it is unethical for people to defend themselves from criminal charges!

Maresca identified what he called two pivotal arguments in the case against Knox and Sollecito: Knox's false accusation against a Congo-born bar owner and a staged robbery, both of which Maresca said were aimed at sidetracking the investigation.
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What? Did Maresca, or anyone else for that matter, actually provide evidence of a staged break-in? Otherwise the AP report accurately covers that the "naming of Lumumba" conviction is now before the ECHR.

There's more. But Maresca really had nothing new to put to the court. It's all the same unproven assertions, devoid of actual evidence.
 
Bill Williams said:
If this AP report of Maresca's presentation in court is at all accurate (as to what Maresca said) it simply highlights that Maresca is not interested in the truth....

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/victims-lawyer-seeks-knox-conviction-murder



So let's get this straight. Even Amanda Knox wants Meredith to be remembered, but when she posts a link to the fund raising page for Meredith's family... that's off base? All this is the weird logic of this case.

It is also not true that Knox's web site solicits funds for herself. She does have a link to Raffaele's fund raising page. I suppose it is unethical for people to defend themselves from criminal charges!



What? Did Maresca, or anyone else for that matter, actually provide evidence of a staged break-in? Otherwise the AP report accurately covers that the "naming of Lumumba" conviction is now before the ECHR.

There's more. But Maresca really had nothing new to put to the court. It's all the same unproven assertions, devoid of actual evidence.
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It is called "damned if you do, damned if you don't".

Her site does have a rather prominent button to donate to the Knox Defense Fund. And well it should. Her link re donations to Meredith - her legal fund? Huh? -- is a real challenge in my opinion.
 
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Machiavelli said:
It should be clear that I am not going to "substitute" that evidence. There are elements which allow conjectures (like the fact that Knox said she met the most beautiful black man she ever seen, they promised to meet each other, and remained silent about the name of this acquaintance; or the fact that she had phone contacts with cocaine dealers in Piazza Grimana; etc.) but I have no intent to make a cornerstone piece of circumstantial evidence out of this.
There are three kinds of "evidence", of degrading weight: prove (direct evidence -or "proof": one piece is sufficient for unequivocal conclusion), indizi (pieces of circumstantial evidence) and congetture (elements below the strenght of circumstantial evidence).
This belongs certainly to the third category. It is a third rate pice of evidence.

However, this piece of evidence has anyway a use, since it is sufficient fot two related uses: 1) to counter the specific defence argument that there is valid behavioural/profile evidence opposing a scenario of a meeting between Knox and Guede; 2) to show that a scenario with the presence of Guede and Knox being at home together is possible, reasonable, not something unrealistic.
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Just btw, the phrase "a third rate piece of evidence" would be taken as being dismissive of that piece of evidence in the US.

It is not evidence at all, lacking what is called probative value.

How could the fact that Knox said she met the most beautiful black man she ever seen, they promised to meet each other, and remained silent about the name of this acquaintance have an value relative to the question 'did Amanda Knox frequent with Rudy Guede? What a racist thing to say! Perhaps you meant to say the fact that Knox said she met the most beautiful man she ever seen, they promised to meet each other, and remained silent about the name of this acquaintance

Even you can see the fact that Knox says she met a beautiful man she promised to meet later does nothing (nothing!!!!!) imply Knox met Guede, and including the modify black hardly narrows the field to Guede.

"She remained silent about the name of this acquaintance"!!!
-This phrase has been intentionally styled so mean Knox has been asked and refused or avoided the answer, Knox is hiding the answer, Knox is hiding the answer because she has something to hide, and what else would she have to hide except that the name of this man is Rudy Guede. However, in fact, Knox never met later with the man, to the best of your or anyone's knowledge, and to the best of your or anyone's knowledge did not and does not know the name of a man she briefly encountered and never saw again.

Like your racist comments, here you Machiavelli are the stylist. It is *you* and only *you* who has actively besmirched Knox. There is no conjecture from fact. You have intentionally attempted to put a conclusion in the mind of the reader by carefully selecting your words.

Machiavelli, there is no conjecture in this, just bile. It says nothing about Knox, but a lot about you..... and it ain't good.
 
moodstream said:
You have intentionally attempted to put a conclusion in the mind of the reader by carefully selecting your words.
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The crime animation that Mignini and Stefanoni commissioned for EURO 182,000 (about US$240,000) was for the same purpose. To merge imagery of the defendants with the crime so that the jurors (called judges) would merge the two in their mind and be more likely to declare (assign) the defendants guilty.

It was so prejudicial that the presiding judge took custody of the video and threatened to sanction anyone who released it to the public. Of course, those jurors (judges) saw it and got to review it again and jurors (judges) in subsequent trials including the current trial may view it. But the public should not see it - it is that inflammatory.
 
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Bill Williams said:
Where does this stuff come from.
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It comes from the Supreme Court report. Once you parse through their garbled writing, that is exactly their reasoning. It doesn't matter that Curatolo described Halloween instead of Nov. 1, because Amanda and Raffaele were elsewhere on Halloween, so he had to have seen them on Nov. 1.

They don't consider the possibility that Curatolo described the wrong night because he was making up a fable.

Moreover, they believe his testimony is corroborated by his ability to describe the scientific police at the crime scene, just as they were depicted in news photos.

Similarly, Quintavalle was able to look at a photo and immediately recognize Amanda as someone he had seen several times, but it took him a year to recognize her as the person who waited for him to open his store on Nov. 2, because the police photo didn't show the color of her eyes.

This is the quality of thinking on display at the highest levels of the Italian court system. Is it any wonder their "honorary president" is a truther?
 
acbytesla said:
You're going to have to stop running your mouth and actually provide evidence. Otherwise shut up.

Time and time again, you have made this absurd suggestion. Not that it has ANY relevance and not once have you actually provided a citation.

I challenge you to be honorable.

Either provide the name of the drug dealer and the actual dates and times between Knox and the alleged drug dealer or move on to something that actually resembles evidence.

This is just a smear tactic and beneath you.
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Beneath him? Why? This is his exact MO. In fact this method is the same tactic used by the whole of the Italian judiciary and the police in fact.

There are no facts! There are no witnesses! There are interrogation tapes unless you you happen to be a complete moron ....then no, they forget to push the button. This has never been anything except for a clownish argument from Yummi/Mac. Or from his hero Mignini the criminally insane prosecutor from Perugia. Someone more evil than Guede himself...because we happen to think Guede is mentally disturbed enough to gain him some grace....Mignini OTOH is just a fat lying cheating pig! Which in Italy makes him perfect to be representing the Italian Judicial system or to be a member of the police force or some science team...oh and a ship captain too apparently.

Stop trying to get information from AV and her idiot husband...or else her idiot partner...take your pick. All lying evil pigs!

I happen to know this guy screws camels for their dung. He is addicted to it and uses it for warmth in the winter.

There... what is any different from the camel story and Yummi/M drug dealer story? Well personally mine has a greater likelihood of being true...

Dishonorable arguments come from dishonorable people. I hope Italy convicts once more so that the world can get the full details of this Italian idiocy finally.

Nothing is beneath a snake except for the ground. The luminol prints...! I really hate clowns!
 
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Strozzi, The cartoon of fiction was effective at waking up the jurors who were sleeping, I was told by someone who was there.
 
Strozzi said:
The crime animation that Mignini and Stefanoni commissioned for EURO 182,000 (about US$240,000) was for the same purpose. To merge imagery of the defendants with the crime so that the jurors (called judges) would merge the two in their mind and be more likely to declare (assign) the defendants guilty.

It was so prejudicial that the presiding judge took custody of the video and threatened to sanction anyone who released it to the public. Of course, those jurors (judges) saw it and got to review it again and jurors (judges) in subsequent trials including the current trial may view it. But the public should not see it - it is that inflammatory.
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If it was inflammatory and prejudicial against the defendants, Massei would have handed it over to the media.

He sealed it because it has no credibility.
 
Strozzi said:
Here is the link to Raffaele Sollecito's site to raise funds for his legal defense. I have donated several times and will do so again.

http://www.gofundme.com/3bct8o

I believe if Meredith could communicate, she would say support the legal defense of the people who are being falsely accused of her murder.
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Also, she'd tell her dad's lawyer that he's a jerk.
 
Charlie Wilkes said:
If it was inflammatory and prejudicial against the defendants, Massei would have handed it over to the media.

He sealed it because it has no credibility.
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Massei may have realized that it was so inflamatory that public release would bring strong criticism on the judicial system - the prosecutors who commissioned it and brought it to court - and perhaps to Massei for allowing it to be shown in his courtroom. The reality is that judges (jurors) may be swayed by it. I believe it is part of the case file and available for all judges (jurors) to look at.
 
moodstream said:
(...)
"She remained silent about the name of this acquaintance"!!!
-This phrase has been intentionally styled so mean Knox has been asked and refused or avoided the answer, Knox is hiding the answer, Knox is hiding the answer because she has something to hide, and what else would she have to hide except that the name of this man is Rudy Guede. However, in fact, Knox never met later with the man, to the best of your or anyone's knowledge, and to the best of your or anyone's knowledge did not and does not know the name of a man she briefly encountered and never saw again.
(...)
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Actually I only report about Knox's style.
I'ts not that I chose to say "black man" - it is Amanda Knox who chose to write "black man" instead of "man" in her diary. This, by the way offers a piece of information that reduces wuite dramatically the potential number, among young men that one can meet as regular frequentators of Via Garibaldi area.

You are accuse me of being the styler, and of carefully chosing what to say and what not to say. But the fact is, Amanda Knox does not tell the name of this acquaintance, which means there is choiche she is making about what to say and what not to say.
You could revert your accusation against Amanda Knox. Knox is hiding the answer? It's a legitimate question. She tells and writes details about everythig in her diaries. She even makes a list of sexual partners. She makes several lists of encounters and acquaitences for the police. She speaks about details of Meredith's death that she shouldn't even know. She tells about habits of locking the door just for shower, about details of putting cloths in the washing machine, she tells about memories she says she doesn't believe, she really talks a lot. She chose to never talk about this man. She also choses to never talk about her contacts the suspect drug-dealer. She also choses write, in her book, a recollection of facts in which she omits to tell about the first time when she said that Meredith used to lock her door sometimed while Filomena was not there.

There are things that Knox just chooses to not talk about.
 
Charlie Wilkes said:
If it was inflammatory and prejudicial against the defendants, Massei would have handed it over to the media.

He sealed it because it has no credibility.
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The video with the scene of violence was never made public, just like the autposy report which was discussed behind closed doors, as an act of respect for Meredith Kercher and her family.
 
Strozzi said:
Machiavelli, we just began Part 7 of this blog. I want to take a moment for a "time out" and tell you that I am very glad that you are here arguing with us about this important case. We disagree on many issues, but I appreciate what you contribute. Sometimes I envision you as the lion tamer - the master wielding the chair keeping 10 hungry cats at bay.

I hope that better things come out of this case for all of the people involved and for Italy.

My posts may annoy you sometimes. I appreciate you looking past it and responding to me.

Your English is excellent - really superb. My compliments to your parents, teachers, and to you as a serious student. If I recall correctly, you may have lived in Ohio as a child. If I may ask, how long did you live in the U.S. and how old were you then?
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No no, I have lived for a while in London, UK (Camberwell, Southwark).
My mother has lived for a while in Cleveland, Ohio.
 
Machiavelli said:
The video with the scene of violence was never made public, just like the autposy report which was discussed behind closed doors, as an act of respect for Meredith Kercher and her family.
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Ah, yes, respect. Which of course explains why, in the Hellmann appeal, the reptile Maresca projected photos of Ms. Kercher's naked, brutalized corpse for all in the courtroom to see.
 
toto said:
Slightly paraphrasing Hellmann, is it true that Curatolo stated on 28th March, 2009, that on the evening when he saw the two youths there were a lot of masks, young people joking about and that there was pandemonium and people that were messing about a bit and that it was a holiday period? (...)
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There isn't anything like that in Curatolo's testimony.
 
js202 said:
Ah, yes, respect. Which of course explains why, in the Hellmann appeal, the reptile Maresca projected photos of Ms. Kercher's naked, brutalized corpse for all in the courtroom to see.
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Actually Maresca asked repeatedly the judge to send away the public. In fact Pratillo Hellmann was sloppy, indifferent, appeared reluctant to send away the public. He made them step out the door. But several people could see.

You should blame Pratillo Hellmann not Maresca.
 
Machiavelli said:
No no, I have lived for a while in London, UK (Camberwell, Southwark).
My mother has lived for a while in Cleveland, Ohio.
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Your English is excellent - even if it is the Queen's English and not Cleveland Ohio English. I hope your Italian is as good as your English. :p
 
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