Are the crucifixion nails of Jesus in Europe?

[PeaceCrusader]

That's not what the text you quoted says.

20120926.1445

@godless dave, #681

I am using the King James Version of the Holy Bible. It is the recommended version that we use because Ama said that it is nearer the truth.

Which version are you using?

 

[pakeha]

Before anything, a round of Dom for all.

...Saint Helena found in the fourth century AD twelve nails. One nail, according to Ama, was thrown into the sea by the Pharisees when Pontius Pilate died most likely during the first century AD. So 12 + 1 = 13. Thirteen nails in all which means that four nails to Jesus and three to each of the two thieves to nail them in their crosses, plus one nail to each of the three signs.

Whatever your medium told told you about Pontius Pilate's death is absurd.
Please take the trouble to ask yourself why the Pharisees would have saved the nails from the Crucifixion and why the Pharisees would have atrributed magical powers to them.
Remember they are Jews, not Christians.

Who do we believe: the legend that Pontius Pilate’s corpse being taken to Vienne from less credible sources or from Ama Himself?

Why do you imagine the ignorant and confused utterances of a medium have any credibility?
Your medium clearly confused several pious legends.
How is it you don't see that?

Yes, pakeha, it matters about “Clavo Santo”. Ama said that the first nail that floated to Paris was called “Clavo Santo” and “Pasiong Mahal” states that the nail at “Karpentas” is called “Clavo Santo”. How did Carpentras acquire the nail? Which name is correct: “Karpentas” or “Carpentras”?

PC, you do understand that Clavo Santo is simply Spanish for holy nail and that it's called differently in different languages?
Remember the source of the Philippine word for apple?
As for the source of the nail in Karpentras, we've posted that up in the thread before, remember?

You know the relationship of the Roman Emperor Constantine and Santa Helena, don’t you?.

Yes.
Remember?
I and others here have posted about it.

There is no place in Rome that says that their relic is called “Clavo Santo”. It is only in Karpentas that says so in their fiesta (feast).

Did you read my recent post explaining where in Rome is a church which claims to have a nail relic?
Try using your Google translater and it will come out as clavo santo.
Do you really not understand how translation works, PC?

...Here is the Chinese website that I am talking about. I googled “aristean universal calendar”.
hotLinks.html
woo43a.net/hotlink.html
Universal Esperanto Language. 聯合國語 | | Aristean universal Calendar.全球月份牌 |. | Country Codes | Flags | Airport Codes | • | Currency conversion.

PC, you realise that site is one of people who believe Niburu, the planet X is going to crash into the Earth and has a count-down to the event?

... Our group is not growing. It seems that it stagnated in about year 2000 when Ama did not come regularly anymore. When Ama comes, it is unexpected and only for a very short period of time.

If I may ask, what happened at that time?
Was there another prediction which didn't come true?

 

[abaddon]

There are thirteen nails in all.

Prove it.

One nail was thrown into the sea when Pontius Pilate died during the first century AD.

Sure, by Jews who didn't believe in jesus, nails or anything else christian.

Saint Helena, during the fourth century, found twelve nails, eight of which were rusty and four, not rusty.

Prove it.

You also do not believe that there are two separate and distinct entities: Ka Apaz and Ama. You think that Ka Apaz is just faking Ama. If that is your belief, so be it. I am not forcing anyone to believe what I believe in.

For some reason you are not taking this in.

You are the ONLY one here who believes this rubbish.

 

[godless dave]

20120926.1445

@godless dave, #681

I am using the King James Version of the Holy Bible. It is the recommended version that we use because Ama said that it is nearer the truth.

Which version are you using?

I was looking at the text you quoted in your post. It does not say that the thieves were nailed to their crosses. I'm not aware of any Bible translation that says the thieves were nailed to their crosses.

 

[PeaceCrusader]

I was looking at the text you quoted in your post. It does not say that the thieves were nailed to their crosses. I'm not aware of any Bible translation that says the thieves were nailed to their crosses.

20120926.2335

@godless dave, #703

You must be looking for nails used in the crucifixion of Jesus and the two thieves. You may think that they were roped to their respective crosses. But no. They were nailed, as in the following verses:

John 20:25 – “The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the LORD. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.”
Colossians 2:14 – “Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;”

The above verses may say that only Jesus was nailed but Ama related to us that Saint Helena found twelve nails, more that 300 years after the crucifixion of Jesus and the two thieves. It means that the thieves were nailed to their respective crosses as well. Believe it or not.

 

[pakeha]

...That is why I believe that the following are logically correct:
a. Jesus was nailed with four nails and the two thieves with three nails each to their respective crosses to make it symmetrical;
b. Saint Helena found only twelve nails because one nail of Jesus was thrown into the sea when Pontius Pilate died;
c. Saint James was in Paris during the first century AD and found the nail that floated in the sea;
d. Saint Helena threw a nail into the Adriatic Sea to calm a storm;
e. Saint Helena mixed the melted nail to the crown of her son, Roman Emperor Constantine the Great.

Well, well, well, PC.
These five assertions are breath-taking, taken all in all.
Have you never wondered why no one here takes them seriously?

Why do you keep on claiming the Pharisees threw a nail from the crucifixion into the sea to calm a storm?
Do you really not see how foolish that sounds?

...You'll certainly have your work cut out for you trying to get the Islamic world to adopt your calendar. As I keep saying to you, ain't gonna happen.

Good point.
PC, why would the Islamic world want to use use your calendar?

And while we're thinking about that, a round of Dom for all!

 

[Robrob]

Why do you keep on claiming the Pharisees threw a nail from the crucifixion into the sea to calm a storm?
Do you really not see how foolish that sounds?

Of all his claims, it's the most "magical" (as in eye of newt) and the one he seems to feel most strongly about.

Here's what he's saying: Jesus touch was magical and turned other things to magic. The nails in his feet became magic. When there was a big storm, the magic nail somehow magically calmed the storm in a magic manner.

Magic, magic, magic, magic.....

 

[pakeha]

^
Perspective is the key here, hurdygurdy.
Did you know the Pharisees cast a nail from the crucifixion into the sea to calm a storm caused by the burial of Pontius Pilate before reading this thread?
Fess up, hurdygurdy!

Did you know about the nail relic in Carpentras before reading this thread?
Fess up, hurdygurdy!

Did you know about the possibilities of piquant mustard sauce with grilled asparagus before reading this thread?
Fess up, hurdygurdy!

Now that's settled, a round of Dom for all!

 

[rickps]

Aren’t these logically correct why the Aristean calendar had to be implemented on 2001-01-01?

There's nothing logical about it at all.

That is why I believe that the following are logically correct:
a. Jesus was nailed with four nails and the two thieves with three nails each to their respective crosses to make it symmetrical;
b. Saint Helena found only twelve nails because one nail of Jesus was thrown into the sea when Pontius Pilate died;
c. Saint James was in Paris during the first century AD and found the nail that floated in the sea;
d. Saint Helena threw a nail into the Adriatic Sea to calm a storm;
e. Saint Helena mixed the melted nail to the crown of her son, Roman Emperor Constantine the Great.

Again, I see nothing remotely logical in that list. I see a lot of fantasy and wishful thinking, though.

 

[RedRatSnake]

In IMHO we all have those nails in our hands, you can't escape the grip that the church has put on society, from birth to death, baptism to last rights it is always being forced upon you, sure you can say no but there will always be someone in the family that is religious and puts peer pressure upon you, one way or another be it using money every day with "in god we trust" printed on it or in work with the always present religion freak, the stink of the church is always around, i did not ask for the nails but i am asked to say thank you for something i did not ask for.

Tim

 

[Wolrab]

Those nails didn't float to Paris, they never touched the water. They leaped from thousands of temporally displaced cases of Dom, jumping sharks the entire way.

 

[Locknar]

Folks...please stay on topic; if for no other reason take pity on the poor mod (ie. ME) that has to wade though everything.

In other words....I went though the last 4 pages and posts that were off topic (or mostly off-topic) have been moved to here: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245044&page=4

If you have a question as to why you post ended up there, you are welcome to PM me, post a question in FM Questions, or file an Appeal.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Locknar

 

[gabeygoat]

Folks...please stay on topic; if for no other reason take pity on the poor mod (ie. ME) that has to wade though everything.

In other words....I went though the last 4 pages and posts that were off topic (or mostly off-topic) have been moved to here: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245044&page=4

If you have a question as to why you post ended up there, you are welcome to PM me, post a question in FM Questions, or file an Appeal.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Locknar

This makes sense. I really enjoy Peace Crusaders threads. Well, the 2 I've read so far (Olympics won't happen, and this one). Maybe it's time for us to move on from this thread, as it's pretty much done, and PC, if he chooses, may begin a new thread on a subject other than WWIII or the nails.

 

[pakeha]

Those nails didn't float to Paris, they never touched the water. They leaped from thousands of temporally displaced cases of Dom, jumping sharks the entire way.

Alas, the nails are sinking under the shock waves of the jumping sharks!

..If they are not, are they logically correct, like how the nail ended up at Carpentras, France? ...

As good a summing up of the thread as any, PC.
A round of Dom for all and off to the new thread!

 

[Alice Shortcake]

I'm so, so sorry for reviving this shambling monster of a thread, but I've only just come across it after a long absence from the forum. I can honestly say that it's one of the most bizarre things I've ever read. Is there anything too ridiculous for Peace Crusader to believe? Did it never occur to him that 'Ama's' prophecies sound exactly like the ravings of an uneducated person with no understanding of history, geography, world affairs, science or even her own religion?

PC is obviously a lost cause, but in the doomed attempt to educate him a lot of fascinating information came to light. I'd never heard of the Pasiong Mahal before but it clearly exerts a lot of influence over poorly-educated people in the Philippines; unfortunately neither Ka Apaz nor PC seem to realize that the information it contains is based on medieval legends invented to fill in the gaps in the gospel narratives.

Some of the stuff mentioned by PC, however, is so utterly surreal it has to be based on Ka Apaz's own interpretation/misunderstanding of the bible and the Pasiong Mahal. I've never heard of anyone confusing John the Baptist with John the Evangelist (although there was a medieval legend that the latter was the bridegroom at Cana...and Mary Magdalene was the bride!) or the 12-year-old Jesus creating Pontius Pilate out of clay in his own image. There were moments when I was reminded of Menocchio the miller's strange interpretations of the bible and saints' legends as described in Carlo Ginzburg's wonderful book The Cheese and the Worms - perhaps Ka Apaz should be grateful that she's no longer in danger of being burned at the stake for heresy!

Another thing: I was under the impression that at least one of the gospels claimed that Malchus' severed ear was restored by Jesus. As we've seen, one of them mentioned that the wound was 'healed' - not quite the same thing. However, I'm pretty sure that in the film The Greatest Story Ever Told (or was it King of Kings?) there's a scene in which Jesus does reattach the ear. Perhaps Ka Apaz was thinking of this?

Anyway, although PC's refusal to be enlightened was frustrating the thread was a fascinating glimpse into crackpottery. And I'm not talking about that notorious golem Pontius Pilate.

 

[Brainache]

I'm so, so sorry for reviving this shambling monster of a thread, but I've only just come across it after a long absence from the forum. I can honestly say that it's one of the most bizarre things I've ever read. Is there anything too ridiculous for Peace Crusader to believe? Did it never occur to him that 'Ama's' prophecies sound exactly like the ravings of an uneducated person with no understanding of history, geography, world affairs, science or even her own religion?

PC is obviously a lost cause, but in the doomed attempt to educate him a lot of fascinating information came to light. I'd never heard of the Pasiong Mahal before but it clearly exerts a lot of influence over poorly-educated people in the Philippines; unfortunately neither Ka Apaz nor PC seem to realize that the information it contains is based on medieval legends invented to fill in the gaps in the gospel narratives.

Some of the stuff mentioned by PC, however, is so utterly surreal it has to be based on Ka Apaz's own interpretation/misunderstanding of the bible and the Pasiong Mahal. I've never heard of anyone confusing John the Baptist with John the Evangelist (although there was a medieval legend that the latter was the bridegroom at Cana...and Mary Magdalene was the bride!) or the 12-year-old Jesus creating Pontius Pilate out of clay in his own image. There were moments when I was reminded of Menocchio the miller's strange interpretations of the bible and saints' legends as described in Carlo Ginzburg's wonderful book The Cheese and the Worms - perhaps Ka Apaz should be grateful that she's no longer in danger of being burned at the stake for heresy!

Another thing: I was under the impression that at least one of the gospels claimed that Malchus' severed ear was restored by Jesus. As we've seen, one of them mentioned that the wound was 'healed' - not quite the same thing. However, I'm pretty sure that in the film The Greatest Story Ever Told (or was it King of Kings?) there's a scene in which Jesus does reattach the ear. Perhaps Ka Apaz was thinking of this?

Anyway, although PC's refusal to be enlightened was frustrating the thread was a fascinating glimpse into crackpottery. And I'm not talking about that notorious golem Pontius Pilate.

I'm sure it would have surprised Sejanus to learn that his brutal young protege Pilatus was actually a hollow figure of clay modeled by a Jewish child.

But I'm sure Patrick Stewart has heard stranger things by now...

 

[Belz...]

 

[pakeha]

Ah, the Pasion Mahal!
Good times.

 

[fuelair]

20120826.1145

A spirit revealed that four nails were used for the hands and feet of Jesus when He was crucified. The nails were eight-sided, “octobado”. They had been retrieved from Jerusalem by Saint Helena, the mother of Emperor Constantine. It is incredible because the nails made of steel floated on the water and were brought to different places – Karpentas, Rome, Milan, and Paris.

Do I believe this? The story is also found at “Awit at salaysay ng Pasiong Mahal” (in Filipino) read and sang during Holy Week in the Philippines. Any comments?

No, you don't!!!

 

[Craig B]

... Another thing: I was under the impression that at least one of the gospels claimed that Malchus' severed ear was restored by Jesus. As we've seen, one of them mentioned that the wound was 'healed' - not quite the same thing.

The account of the incident is slightly weird, as things often are in the gospels.

50 And one of them struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his right ear. 51 But Jesus answered, “No more of this!” And he touched the man’s ear and healed him.

So Jesus "healed" this man by touching his right ear after it had been cut off. I think that's why most people assume it must have been put back on. Healing it while it was on the ground and then not reattaching it seems a strange and indeed pointless operation.