Continuation Part Seven: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Grinder]

Machiavelli, was the guy who was prosecuted for drug dealing really an active drug dealer? Could it be that he was not a dealer at all but was investigated because his phone number was in Knox's phone or because he had spoken with her once by phone? Perhaps he was a pot smoker, like half of all younger adults in Perugia, and had the misfortune of having a phone call with Knox against whom the PLE are desperate to discover or create negative evidence for their own vindication.

Did I miss this entire thing being shown to be real? As I understand it one story in a minor paper is all that this whole kerfuffle is based on.

As I've said before this kind of stuff on both sides has been very frustrating.

Recently Tesla was talking about the gold watch of Rudy's neighbor that was found in Rudy's backpack but disappeared. The problem with that is that the only source that has been found was Nina Burleigh.

If Mach doesn't provide much more than the one article it means nothing. Did Crini mention it? Did Mignini mention it? Is there any official document that mentions this alleged drug dealing friend?

There were no positive tests for any drug excepts perhaps for pot.

It reminds me of Curatalo who was arrested on an old drug charge (it was by then several years old, wasn't it?) when the prosecutor needed him to be a pliable witness (on his 3rd serious criminal (murder?) case) and isolate him from contact with journalists or defense counsel - lest he say something that shows the media or defense counsel that he doesn't know what he was talking about. Or had been prompted to construct testimony 8 months after he told the police he saw nothing in the park on the night of Kerscher's murder.

The drug charge was from 2003 and he was taken to court and jailed in 2011. Had he been available for a TV interview I can't imagine the embarrassment to the ILE.

Just think if a TV interview included people on the bench and he was asked later to pick them out of a lineup. Just the picture of him on the bench acting out reading and smoking as well as what that bench looked like that night.

Too bad Ch. 5 didn't do that.

 

[Samson]

It seems the various lawyers for the Kerchers in their day in court have abandoned any mention of sex or excrement in explaining the crime, the favoured motives of the ISC and Crini. It is purely an alcohol and drug fuelled murder to them. The problem with this is marijuana is a pacifying drug, no narcotics have been cited I am aware of, and timelines and crime scene allow no evidence of alcohol consumption.

 

[Bill Williams]

There's a call out for posters not to engage Machiavelli on the smear-tactic of trying to tie Knox to "drug dealers", through the factoid that she had a drug dealer's name in her call list.

Yet, it is illustrative of Machiavelli's method of arguing, when he is not engaged in dietrology. As noted, M. takes one lone, minor newspiece which itself alleges this, and M. turns that into some people thinking he's arguing that Guede was Knox's pimp.

This is incredible mileage one can get out of that newspiece. As noted, M. never mentions just WHO this drug dealer is supposed to be - meaning, it could have been Meredith's boyfriend downstairs, the guy who grew pot in the cottage.

But so far, this is not an example of dietrology. It's just an old fashioned smear campaign, one that started as soon as RS and AK were arrested in 2007.

The real dietrology starts, for instance, when one wonders why (on earth!) the ILE would NOT test the semen stain on the pillow under the victim's hips? Judge Massei is clear why he thinks one shouldn't test it - Massei says that it would be impossible to time-stamp the DNA as found; so why test it? Massei simply ignores that if the sample were found to be Raffaele's.... then it is game over for Raffaele....

.... and if it is Rudy's, then it is game over for Rudy.... because the one thing EVERYONE is agreed upon is that regardless of whether or not DNA-itself is time-stampable, there's no other explanation for Rudy's junk to be there.

But get Machiavelli going on this, and it is dietrology in full motion, not just judicial avoidence as per Massei.

I'm sure if Machiavelli chooses to readdress this he will show dietrology.

But the best comment belongs to whoever it was who said: the thought of not testing DNA of semen found at a sexual assault/murder, is equivalent to not testing the food in a food-poisoning case.

There actually IS NO reason NOT to test the semen.

M. would prefer not to talk about that, really. He'd rather extend the smear campaign about factoids and minor factoids at that! Witness the "Knox knew drug dealers" meme.

Good for you M. I hope you keep at it myself. At least you have one supporter on this forum!

 

[Bill Williams]

It seems the various lawyers for the Kerchers in their day in court have abandoned any mention of sex or excrement in explaining the crime, the favoured motives of the ISC and Crini. It is purely an alcohol and drug fuelled murder to them. The problem with this is marijuana is a pacifying drug, and no narcotics have been cited I am aware of.

The strange thing is that the Nencini court might still very well convict, even if on some lesser charge. True, motive is not a necessary element of "proof", but if anyone is to have confidence that they have convicted the right people...

.... with the DNA evidence now gone:
.... with Crini now saying that the kitchen knife now IS a match for the bedsheet outline (something no one in 6 years has ever dared say for fear of embarrassment!)​

"Motive" simply becomes more key. And the fact that the half-dozen motives the prosecution/Maresca has floated out there are so diverse... it is a matter of losing confidence in the prosecution/Maresca that they know what they're talking about.

I think back to Piers Morgon, on CNN, in the days after the March 2013 ISC quashings happened. Gloria Allred and Jeffrey Toobin were on discussing the ISC rational for quashing an acquittal - one of which was the inexplicable revisiting of the sex-game-gone-wrong theory.

Morgan is an unabashed friend of John Kercher's. But if you can find that clip on YouTube, pay attention to Morgan's own reaction to the implication that Meredith, too, was somehow involved in a sex-game, BEFORE it went wrong. Remember it's still allegedly a "sex game". But there's always that rider which should offend the Kerchers, as it offended Morgan that night, "which went wrong."

Morgan should never lose that sense of outrage. And what has happened since March 2013?

- Crini has ignored the sex game, gone wrong or otherwise!
- Crini talks about Rudy taking a dump, and this sparking homicide in two others who didn't even use that bathroom!
- Maresca, representing the victim's family, has ignored the sex game, gone wrong or otherwise!
- Instead he talks about a drugged fuelled frenzy, with a drug known for mellowing people!​

Ok folks - motive is NOT something required in a case. Perhaps Maresca is right, the motive might only be known to the perp(s).

Yet it is the Maresca's of the world, it is the Mignini's of the world, it is the Crini's of the world who simply cannot let motive go.... meaning, unless they can rant on about sex and/or drugs there really IS nothing else to talk about.

They don't need to have ironclad proof of each element, but it sure would ne nice if ONE guilter would attempt a detailed, comprehensive timeline which explains this case; while also including RS and AK.

It's been six years and there's been THOUSANDS of posts about this. You'd think ONE of them would be able to manage that.

 

[NancyS]

It seems the various lawyers for the Kerchers in their day in court have abandoned any mention of sex or excrement in explaining the crime, the favoured motives of the ISC and Crini. It is purely an alcohol and drug fuelled murder to them. The problem with this is marijuana is a pacifying drug, no narcotics have been cited I am aware of, and timelines and crime scene allow no evidence of alcohol consumption.

It's a shame they didn't test positive for heroin, as according to the prosecution heroin makes you a credible witness.

 

[Samson]

The strange thing is that the Nencini court might still very well convict, even if on some lesser charge. True, motive is not a necessary element of "proof", but if anyone is to have confidence that they have convicted the right people...

.... with the DNA evidence now gone:
.... with Crini now saying that the kitchen knife now IS a match for the bedsheet outline (something no one in 6 years has ever dared say for fear of embarrassment!)​

"Motive" simply becomes more key. And the fact that the half-dozen motives the prosecution/Maresca has floated out there are so diverse... it is a matter of losing confidence in the prosecution/Maresca that they know what they're talking about.

I think back to Piers Morgon, on CNN, in the days after the March 2013 ISC quashings happened. Gloria Allred and Jeffrey Toobin were on discussing the ISC rational for quashing an acquittal - one of which was the inexplicable revisiting of the sex-game-gone-wrong theory.

Morgan is an unabashed friend of John Kercher's. But if you can find that clip on YouTube, pay attention to Morgan's own reaction to the implication that Meredith, too, was somehow involved in a sex-game, BEFORE it went wrong. Remember it's still allegedly a "sex game". But there's always that rider which should offend the Kerchers, as it offended Morgan that night, "which went wrong."

Morgan should never lose that sense of outrage. And what has happened since March 2013?

- Crini has ignored the sex game, gone wrong or otherwise!
- Crini talks about Rudy taking a dump, and this sparking homicide in two others who didn't even use that bathroom!
- Maresca, representing the victim's family, has ignored the sex game, gone wrong or otherwise!
- Instead he talks about a drugged fuelled frenzy, with a drug known for mellowing people!​

Ok folks - motive is NOT something required in a case. Perhaps Maresca is right, the motive might only be known to the perp(s).

Yet it is the Maresca's of the world, it is the Mignini's of the world, it is the Crini's of the world who simply cannot let motive go.... meaning, unless they can rant on about sex and/or drugs there really IS nothing else to talk about.

They don't need to have ironclad proof of each element, but it sure would ne nice if ONE guilter would attempt a detailed, comprehensive timeline which explains this case; while also including RS and AK.

It's been six years and there's been THOUSANDS of posts about this. You'd think ONE of them would be able to manage that.

I think it is reasonable to assume that the lawyers are under instruction to not mention those items, but it serves to highlight the no motive meme. Now I would like someone to list the similar crimes where no plausible motive has been offered. Guede clearly had a motive, fear of discovery, and has been convicted. It is incredible that a motive is not required for the other two. In fact the opposite is the truth, they had a profound motive to behave themselves and further their careers.

 

[Bill Williams]

I think it is reasonable to assume that the lawyers are under instruction to not mention those items, but it serves to highlight the no motive meme. Now I would like someone to list the similar crimes where no plausible motive has been offered. Guede clearly had a motive, fear of discovery, and has been convicted. It is incredible that a motive is not required for the other two. In fact the opposite is the truth, they had a profound motive to behave themselves and further their careers.

And the only "motive" anyone has ever offered for the two students to leave the cottage was that they'd tired of the "same old same old" after exactly one week! All this, after suddenly finding themselves free of commitment with every reason in the world to snuggle up and watch a movie. Add to this that Raffaele did not even know he was free of commitment until about 8:40 pm, and the poor victim was gone by probably 9:30.

 

[Bill Williams]

Speaking of contamination..... take a peek at this photo. Now, one does not know when this photo was taken in the evidence collection process... but it seems the only reason to wear protective clothing is that they are still concerned about contaminating a pristine crime scene.... so, take a look at the guy's bootie, and try to estimate the number of times it has been changed... just saying....

 

[acbytesla]

All I'm asking is that when someone who's name needs not be mentioned, provide a citation to his argument that Amanda was having sex with a drug dealer. Give us the name of this phantom drug dealer. Give us the date and time when Amanda called or was called by this person. Just prove it. That's all I ask.

Not that this has anything to do with Meredith's murder. But if someone is going to avoid actually talking about the evidence that is germane to the case, they could at least provide proof of their character assassinations.

So please, instead of repeating bs, show us that you're sincere. And provide proof.

 

[Bill Williams]

It appears that Machiavelli was not texting/tweeting from the courtroom today from the Samsung.

 

[moodstream]

9 May 2009, when we talk of a metric and morphological match of Sollecito’s foot to the print on the bathmat. We know the Robbin’s grid is used to align the footprint. But defense consultant Vinci (he is a bit of a “tutto fare”) chooses a different point of departure for the measurement. Then he uses a program called “blended stretch.” The name says it all. Prof. Vinci in that way showed images purporting to show a compatibility with Guede’s foot. But there is no question that the footprint is compatible with Sollecito. The stamp” of the foot in Meredith’s blood (not ink) on the bathmat is Sollecito’s and it nails him to the scene of the crime.

To me, the foot looks like Guede's. Have I been fooled by Prof. Vinci's blended stretch method? Does anyone have an easy and objective demonstration of the difference?

 

[Samson]

All I'm asking is that when someone who's name needs not be mentioned, provide a citation to his argument that Amanda was having sex with a drug dealer. Give us the name of this phantom drug dealer. Give us the date and time when Amanda called or was called by this person. Just prove it. That's all I ask.

Not that this has anything to do with Meredith's murder. But if someone is going to avoid actually talking about the evidence that is germane to the case, they could at least provide proof of their character assassinations.

So please, instead of repeating bs, show us that you're sincere. And provide proof.

You sure have my support here, rule twelve is difficult for an amateur like me to fully understand.

 

[GreyFox]

Speaking of contamination..... take a peek at this photo. Now, one does not know when this photo was taken in the evidence collection process... but it seems the only reason to wear protective clothing is that they are still concerned about contaminating a pristine crime scene.... so, take a look at the guy's bootie, and try to estimate the number of times it has been changed... just saying....

[qimg]http://www.injusticeanywhereforum.com/gallery/image.php?image_id=34[/qimg]

Well give him credit. He wiped his feet.... On the bra ? Probably why Guede put the bed spread on the floor. Tired of having to clean his shoes.

 

[Strozzi]

Well give him credit. He wiped his feet.... On the bra ? Probably why Guede put the bed spread on the floor. Tired of having to clean his shoes.

You don't think that he can track DNA on the sole of his booties, do you?

 

[GreyFox]

I don't have to establish anything actually. But I can well assume it is reasonable to believe a reporting by Il Corriere dell'Umbria which cites a police report, and it is reasonable on my part to believe my direct sources.
Knox had phone contacts with a a drug dealer who - incidentally - was also reported by the police as having the habit of giving cocaine to female stutents in exchange for sex.
<Snip>.

Well lets just break down what you assume. ASS u ME.

Didn't you learn anything from the pink photo ?

 

[GreyFox]

You don't think that he can track DNA on the sole of his booties, do you?

According to some... there all selling their crack for some crack. It's a wonder anyone over there can comprehend what's going on.

They could have a video with the time recorded and still not be able to correctly tell you what time it is

 

[Samson]

And the only "motive" anyone has ever offered for the two students to leave the cottage was that they'd tired of the "same old same old" after exactly one week! All this, after suddenly finding themselves free of commitment with every reason in the world to snuggle up and watch a movie. Add to this that Raffaele did not even know he was free of commitment until about 8:40 pm, and the poor victim was gone by probably 9:30.

All too obvious to be compelled to discuss, but here is the incredible thing, Maresca made this statement to the court.
•The two pillars of this trial are the slander of Patrick Lumumba and the staging of the break in to simulate a rape and burglary.

How did he get a law degree? These items are infallibly discredited by multiple logic and forensic pathways.
The only thing I see left is the money, even if only for Maresca's fees. I really wonder if the whole edifice is not painted into a corner for legal and financial reasons.

 

[Strozzi]

According to some... there all selling their crack for some crack. It's a wonder anyone over there can comprehend what's going on.

They could have a video with the time recorded and still not be able to correctly tell you what time it is

Well, if I remember correctly, the video's clock was 10 minutes off, plus or minus. Let me see, do you add ten minutes or take away ten minutes?

It reminds me of when my mother was in the hospital and two medical residents (trainee doctors) came into her room to perform a spinal tap with a large needle in her spine. One said "I think you count down six (vertebra)" and the other said "I think you count down seven". She turned to them and said "Guess what, guys? You aren't counting down any".

 

[LondonJohn]

Well, if I remember correctly, the video's clock was 10 minutes off, plus or minus. Let me see, do you add ten minutes or take away ten minutes?

It reminds me of when my mother was in the hospital and two medical residents (trainee doctors) came into her room to perform a spinal tap with a large needle in her spine. One said "I think you count down six (vertebra)" and the other said "I think you count down seven". She turned to them and said "Guess what, guys? You aren't counting down any".

Yes: the one thing that police and expert witnesses really ought to exhibit is precision and accuracy on matters of fact (as opposed to opinion or inference). There has been such a grotesque level of imprecision from the police and various prosecution "experts" in this case that their evidence should automatically be called into question.

(BTW: I too have had the pleasure of having a lumbar puncture. In fact, the needle can be inserted in between any of the vertebrae below L2 (i.e. the second lumbar vertebra), since it's only below this point that the vertebrae are not fused at all. Therefore, the "six" or "seven" (normally counted from the T7/T8 junction, which is the high point of the thoracic curve (i.e. for a patient lying on their left side, it's the point on their spine which lies to the furthest on the right)) takes you to either the L2/L3 gap or the L3/L4 gap. Either of these would be perfectly suitable for insertion of a needle for a lumbar puncture, so your mother would be safe either way! However, I would agree that the perceived indecision - with its perceived possibility for catastrophe - would be somewhat offputting for someone about to undergo the procedure!)

 

[Strawberry]

Why did Maresca tell the court that Amanda told her mother "I was there." ?