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Continuation Part Six: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

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halides1 said:
Do you have a link that shows that stress can halt digestion? How much alcohol is necessary to slow digestion? We know what Meredith ate, when she ate it, and what they did around the time of the meal, before and after.
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I found watching The Notebook to be stressful...but thats because I find Gosling highly overrated. Love Garner though.
 
yimyammer said:
I've been following this case for several years and somehow I've never heard about Rudys diary

Where did you find that? Is the full thing available to read?

Does he describe how Amanda & Raf joined in?

Thx!
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Hi YimyYammer,
You gotta head to PMF.net,
there are a few different format available for download...

http://www.perugiamurderfile.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=38


Add that to The Skype conversation,
and that statement to German authorities, Koblenz, Nov. 21, 2007
from Candace Dempsey's blog I'll link again:
http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/2011/04/28/rudy-guede-amanda-knox-was-not-there/


Gosh, I was out in the nearshore waters of the Pacific Ocean in my lil' 10 foot kayak today looking for juvenile Great White Sharks(*) and I had a laugh rememberin' just last night reading something new, written by the man himself who left Meredith Kercher to die a horrible death:
Rudy Guede's awful 1 night stand with a "guy" just a few days prior.

Hard to believe I, or anyone else, missed that 1 for so long!
hahaha...
RW


* - Only one 5 footer was spotted swimmin' around the crew surfing today, I didn't see him, the surf was too big at this particular beach. Insane Southern California afternoon though, didn't even have to wear a t-shirt after gettin' back on the beach, bitchin' weather. But I can't wait to see 1 my bro's, a dude who I kayak with, he's a Gay man who's gonna luv shootin' the *** about Guede's awful 1 night stand!
 
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Drug testing, surely the cops did that correctly, right?

acbytesla said:
We're they actually tested for drugs Grinder? They admitted smoking cannabis. This isn't a secret. I've seen posts saying they were tested, but no actual citations. I've also read that cannabis can be detected even weeks after be exposed to it, whereas other drugs not so much.

I agree with the timeline. Some have tried but it never logically fits the evidence.
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Grinder said:
I don't have a cite but it was widely assumed by all that they were tested. Someone might have a direct source. I should have said tested negative for everything except pot. Given the idea that it was a sex/drug fueled event one would certainly think they were tested and if they had anything to report they would.
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Drugh testing, huh?
Gosh, I seem to recall having discussed this a few years ago right here on The JREF with someone, let me look:

ElsieEthrington said:
<snip>
My big question, on the eve of the appeal, is about drug tests. The Massei report seems to indicate that AK and RS were not subject to any blood, urine, or hair tests. Evidence of consumption of meth, coke, LSD, or PCP may have helped the prosecution's case, given that there are precedents that using these substances can lead to violent crime. Were any drug tests, even for cannabis, conducted? Given that the accused admitted to toking, did law enforcement just take their word for it?

Law enforcement accepting their admittance of drug use, without drug testing, seems lax to me, given that AK and RS lied about the break in and the clean up. They could be lying about cannabis to conceal use of much harder drugs that lead to the murder.
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Here's some info for ya:
Barbie Nadeau's book "Angel Face" on pages 161 +162:
"In the days right after the murder, there was talk of a Satanic ritual because of the Halloween paraphernalia found at the girls' villa and Raf's apartment. That hypothesis was soon discounted, however, and replaced with the idea of sex games gone wrong in a fog of drugs and alcohol. Unfortunately, no alcohol or drug testing was done immediately on Amanda, Raf, or Rudy, and Meredith's initial toxicology reports showed that she had had no more than a glass of wine. (Later toxicology reports that she may have been very drunk, but the prosecution wrote those off as bad forensics - they said her body had not been stored properly, so the blood alcohol levels were due to fermentation, not intoxication. As for Amanda and Raf, when they were finally arrested, on Nov. 6, only the slightest unidentifiable trace of narcotics was found thru hair samples - not even enough to identify the substance.)
:cool:
 
Briars said:
They ran when Rudy did around 10:30 prior to any car breakdown. They had been in the piazza earlier to meet or buy drugs. Curatolo was not a security guard and had no reason to watch continuously. Meredtih was wearing a zip up sweatshirt not heavy outer wear. Maybe 9pm was already getting late to call her ailing mother so no repeat call. We have no idea how much they needed to clean themselves They put their coats on and covered up.Rudy was the one who nelt by the victim and carried around bloody towels.He may have washed up in the bathroom but there would have been a lot of splashing and much more blood evidence. Someone took the time to clean up. A quick trip home to Sollecito's the defendants could have been back waiting in the piazza for the tow truck to leave just before 11pm
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Evidence to support your outlandish claims please.
 
RWVBWL said:
Drugh testing, huh?
Gosh, I seem to recall having discussed this a few years ago right here on The JREF with someone, let me look:




Here's some info for ya:
Barbie Nadeau's book "Angel Face" on pages 161 +162:
"In the days right after the murder, there was talk of a Satanic ritual because of the Halloween paraphernalia found at the girls' villa and Raf's apartment. That hypothesis was soon discounted, however, and replaced with the idea of sex games gone wrong in a fog of drugs and alcohol. Unfortunately, no alcohol or drug testing was done immediately on Amanda, Raf, or Rudy, and Meredith's initial toxicology reports showed that she had had no more than a glass of wine. (Later toxicology reports that she may have been very drunk, but the prosecution wrote those off as bad forensics - they said her body had not been stored properly, so the blood alcohol levels were due to fermentation, not intoxication. As for Amanda and Raf, when they were finally arrested, on Nov. 6, only the slightest unidentifiable trace of narcotics was found thru hair samples - not even enough to identify the substance.)
:cool:
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Some commentators here have expressed the view that Raffaele may have been under the influence of cannabis when he was interrogated on the night of Nov 5/6. I wonder if he was visibly mellow that night and if the police detected it. If so, the police may have felt no need to do a clinical test to satisfy themselves as to what they were dealing with. If Raffaele was under the influence of cannabis, the police probably preferred it that way.
 
Strozzi said:
Some commentators here have expressed the view that Raffaele may have been under the influence of cannabis when he was interrogated on the night of Nov 5/6. I wonder if he was visibly mellow that night and if the police detected it. If so, the police may have felt no need to do a clinical test to satisfy themselves as to what they were dealing with. If Raffaele was under the influence of cannabis, the police probably preferred it that way.
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Hi Strozzi,
I'd read that on PS years ago, think I dug up a passage recently from it,
always thought how much fun it would be to go get questioned by police late at night while stoned. :eek: Yikes! :boxedin:
 
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Hey your welcome Yimyyammer!

You all remember Rudy Guede don't ya?
Wouldn't you really luv to read the transcripts of Rudy Guede's trial?
I'd luv to read Judge Paolo Micheli's report.

From FS, a few years back:
Tuesday, October 28, 2008
RUDY GUEDE SENTENCED TO 30 YEARS. AMANDA AND RAFFAELE TO BE TRIED
All three back to the fortress

After an endless council chamber the judge Paolo Micheli delivered his sentence for the murder of Meredith Kercher in front of her whole family: Rudy Guede condemned to 30 years of jail, and to the payment of 2 million euro each to Meredith's parents and 1.5 million euro each to her siblings.

Amanda and Raffaele will be tried for murder, sexual violence, theft, simulation of crime, transportation of knife and --for the sole Amanda-- slander, starting December 4th 2008.
Micheli reserved himself to answer about the request of freedom for Amanda and Raffaele within 5 days. But his decision could come already tomorrow, together, hopefully, with the sentence motivation (for deliver which he has 90 days).

If Rudy got 30 years it means that the original penalty was life-jail, then discounted because of the abbreviated trial. And indeed life-jail is the ordinary penalty for murder and sexual violence. It was enough to have been condemned for the theft too and he would have taken life-jail anyway because in that case only the 'daily isolation' would have been discounted.
<snip>

Link:
http://web.archive.org/web/20100807000133/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2008_10_01_archive.html
 
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If True?!?

Bill Williams said:
This is rumour, so please treat it as such.... I am trying to find a cite for it....

One of the present Corte di Cassazione judges is Paolo Micheli, the judge who passed judgement on Rudy Guede's fast track. He also at the same time sent Raffaele and Amanda to trial when he was working at that level in the Italian system.

The rumour is that when Micheli was hearing the case brought by Mignini over the 21 people charged in the Narducci case, Micheli confided that he should never have sent Knox and Sollecito to trial.

If true, please remember the "if" part of this, it is rather stunning.
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Wow!
 
RWVBWL said:
Drugh testing, huh?
Gosh, I seem to recall having discussed this a few years ago right here on The JREF with someone, let me look:




Here's some info for ya:
Barbie Nadeau's book "Angel Face" on pages 161 +162:
"In the days right after the murder, there was talk of a Satanic ritual because of the Halloween paraphernalia found at the girls' villa and Raf's apartment. That hypothesis was soon discounted, however, and replaced with the idea of sex games gone wrong in a fog of drugs and alcohol. Unfortunately, no alcohol or drug testing was done immediately on Amanda, Raf, or Rudy, and Meredith's initial toxicology reports showed that she had had no more than a glass of wine. (Later toxicology reports that she may have been very drunk, but the prosecution wrote those off as bad forensics - they said her body had not been stored properly, so the blood alcohol levels were due to fermentation, not intoxication. As for Amanda and Raf, when they were finally arrested, on Nov. 6, only the slightest unidentifiable trace of narcotics was found thru hair samples - not even enough to identify the substance.)
:cool:
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Can the last sentence be accurate? What sort of test would show the presence of "narcotics" but not be able to identify the substance?
 
Strozzi said:
I thought that Mignini belatedly modified his explanation of the crime to comform to the fact that no evidence exists that places Amanda in Meredith's room. Mignini said that Amanda must have been in the hallway directing the event. So why is Briars arguing against Mignini?
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Because theres 500 different scenarios the pgp has thrown out there.
 
Is there a photo of the downstairs bathroom window that was left open so we can see if Guede could have climbed in? Giobbi said it was left open for the cat....that left blood everywhere.....even on the light switch.
 
RWVBWL said:
Hey MichaelB,
Thanks for sharing those photo's,
I bet many, like me, had never seen Giacomo's crop or Stefano's bed...
RW
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Something happened down there. I've read so many pages of the transcripts it's easy to forget details but I don't remember seeing Steffano or Giacomo Silenzi being asked about a cat with a bleeding ear.

If anyone comes across that then please post it....otherwise I'll go back and read it again when I get a chance to make sure.
 
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RWVBWL said:
Hey your welcome Yimyyammer!

You all remember Rudy Guede don't ya?
Wouldn't you really luv to read the transcripts of Rudy Guede's trial?
I'd luv to read Judge Paolo Micheli's report.

From FS, a few years back:
Tuesday, October 28, 2008
RUDY GUEDE SENTENCED TO 30 YEARS. AMANDA AND RAFFAELE TO BE TRIED
All three back to the fortress

After an endless council chamber the judge Paolo Micheli delivered his sentence for the murder of Meredith Kercher in front of her whole family: Rudy Guede condemned to 30 years of jail, and to the payment of 2 million euro each to Meredith's parents and 1.5 million euro each to her siblings.

Amanda and Raffaele will be tried for murder, sexual violence, theft, simulation of crime, transportation of knife and --for the sole Amanda-- slander, starting December 4th 2008.
Micheli reserved himself to answer about the request of freedom for Amanda and Raffaele within 5 days. But his decision could come already tomorrow, together, hopefully, with the sentence motivation (for deliver which he has 90 days).

If Rudy got 30 years it means that the original penalty was life-jail, then discounted because of the abbreviated trial. And indeed life-jail is the ordinary penalty for murder and sexual violence. It was enough to have been condemned for the theft too and he would have taken life-jail anyway because in that case only the 'daily isolation' would have been discounted.
<snip>

Link:
http://web.archive.org/web/20100807000133/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2008_10_01_archive.html
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Thanks for reminding me of the wayback machine. I came to the case after Perugia Shock disappeared, and had been wanting to read it: a first-hand source writing in English as the case unfolds. I find it horrifying and surprising that its 'removal' from the Internet is/was supported by Italian law.

Your kayak trip (previous post) sounds awesome.:) I am jealous. My kayak is tucked up in the shed for the winter. It is -23 C this morning, which is much nicer than it has been all week. :(
 
thin layer chromatography

whoanellie said:
Can the last sentence be accurate? What sort of test would show the presence of "narcotics" but not be able to identify the substance?
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I have not researched this topic in depth, so what follows is informed speculation. I think that such an assertion is dubious at best, although it falls within the realm of possibility. I can imagine a thin-layer chromatography experiment that could not distinguish between closely related narcotics. However, if the TLC result were positive, one would surely want to follow it up with a test that was more discriminating (one involving mass spectrometry, for example). Barbie should have asked what test they supposedly did. It sounds like more Perugian prevarication, but it is difficult to be certain.
 
MichaelB said:
Is there a photo of the downstairs bathroom window that was left open so we can see if Guede could have climbed in? Giobbi said it was left open for the cat....that left blood everywhere.....even on the light switch.
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All of the windows downstairs have bars. I recall that a window in the wall below the upstairs kitchen is seen open in the Spheron video. This was taken on the morning of November 3rd so not before the appartment had been breached by the disruptive forces of the PLE.

It is generally believed that Meredith was in the downstairs appartment in the afternoon of November 1. She could have transferred the cat's blood to the light switch.
 
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halides1 said:
I have not researched this topic in depth, so what follows is informed speculation. I think that such an assertion is dubious at best, although it falls within the realm of possibility. I can imagine a thin-layer chromatography experiment that could not distinguish between closely related narcotics. However, if the TLC result were positive, one would surely want to follow it up with a test that was more discriminating (one involving mass spectrometry, for example). Barbie should have asked what test they supposedly did. It sounds like more Perugian prevarication, but it is difficult to be certain.
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Saying someone is on drugs is like saying that they breathed air. It is so general. What air? Oxygen and Nitrogen, or Methane and Nitrous Oxide? What drugs? Acetylsalicylic acid or Lysergic acid diethylamide? (Aspirin or LSD)
 
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