Continuation Part Six: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[acbytesla]

Oh please. He confused me with another poster that said it was BS and conflated that into by strong implication that I called her a liar.

Actually I didn't. Mathew got that right. It was more an expression than anything else. I said it wasn't necessary to call Briars a liar, NOT that anyone actually had.

On this Grinder, you jumped to a conclusion that I was talking about you or any specific person. I wasn't.

 

[MichaelB]

Not just Massei but contemporaneous reporting.

Where did the housekeeping stories come from?

The transcripts reveal ALL of the media reports about what the British girls "said" when it comes to Meredith and Amanda's relationship wasn't true and outright made up by journalists but some of the girls certainly had almost identical stories when it came to the condoms, vibrator & cleaning.

 

[Briars]

But Briars if she were killed at 10:10 for TOD at 10:20 the kids were in the plaza. You still haven't helped with a human translation of Curatolo but it seems clear he saw them when he arrived after 9:30 and they were there every time he looked up. Even if that was only when he smoked it makes it very hard to buy they were involved. By 10:30 the car was broken down and the tow truck didn't leave until after 11.

There is a reason the prosecution moved the TOD to after 11 because they had to use Curatolo and he had them there until almost midnight until Massei adjusted the time based on the (nonexistent) disco buses. Curatolo actually said they were there until "just before midnight".

Interesting that none of the PGP Italian speakers will translate Curatolo's testimony.

Drop Curatolo and rework your theory.

No Curatolo saw them when he arrived. Then he read his paper.He did not watch them continuously by his own account. It may have seemed that they never left because when they returned after the attack they were still in the same area.They waited for the tow truck to depart to return..Having had a fair amount of time to read his paper he probably increased the frequency he glanced at the couple. By this time they have been talking animatedly and checking over the rail.

 

[MichaelB]

No Curatolo saw them when he arrived. Then he read his paper.He did not watch them continuously by his own account. It may have seemed that they never left because when they returned after the attack they were still in the same area.They waited for the tow truck to depart to return..Having had a fair amount of time to read his paper he probably increased the frequency he glanced at the couple. By this time they have been talking animatedly and checking over the rail.

Curatolo didn't see anything

 

[Supernaut]

I don't know anything about the effects of heavy drinking. My patients don't go in for that sort of thing. (Neither do I, come to that.)

I do know about the effects of fright or terror on the mammalian digestive system though. Stand well back!

Rolfe.

LoL. I was aware of that.

Intuitively, though, my feeling is that the digestive system (its various sections, organs and glands) is stressed by extended, heavy drinking, and that for a time afterward it might be slower in processing and transiting food.

 

[Matthew Best]

Mathew I agree with you about your wife but there is no reason to beat her.

I agree! No reason at all.

 

[acbytesla]

No Curatolo saw them when he arrived. Then he read his paper.He did not watch them continuously by his own account. It may have seemed that they never left because when they returned after the attack they were still in the same area.They waited for the tow truck to depart to return..Having had a fair amount of time to read his paper he probably increased the frequency he glanced at the couple. By this time they have been talking animatedly and checking over the rail.

How can you be so wrong about so many things?

Curatolo didn't say he was watching them. What he said was that they were there every time he looked up from 9:30 to after 11:30 when he left the Piazza himself.

 

[Supernaut]

Girls can be bitchy. If Meredith said something a bit bitchy about Amanda to her English friends, that means they were a gaggle of female students. Not that Meredith and Amanda wouldn't have been as chummy as can be the next day, and certainly not that murder was about to ensue. Otherwise our colleges would be empty of young ladies, as half of them were locked up for murdering the other half.

Rolfe.

<Puts on PGP hat>

What utter rubbish! Meredith was by all accounts the sweetest young woman ever to walk the Earth.

She never said anything remotely catty about anyone!

How dare you! Your comments are disgusting!

<flounces off and removes PGP hat>

That was weird.

 

[JREF2010]

Drop Curatolo and rework your theory.

lol theory # 525 coming right up...

as I get it, Crini is ok with the earlier ToD!

Is it common for the prosecution to change their theorys and motives and interpretation of supposed evidence like this?

Im not a professional legal hound , so I really am asking seriously. It seems odd the prosecution has changed their storys and motives and dropped evidence like a cold turd, once it was proven to be wrong.

Why doesn't the prosecution just tell the Judge Nencini "look heres 525 guilter theories....one of them is probably maybe right...now convict them for life! ciao"

 

[acbytesla]

The transcripts reveal ALL of the media reports about what the British girls "said" when it comes to Meredith and Amanda's relationship wasn't true and outright made up by journalists but some of the girls certainly had almost identical stories when it came to the condoms, vibrator & cleaning.

How would you know Michael? How many of the British girls actually testified in trial? Are we really going on what the British tabloids said? Did you read the Daily Mail after Amanda was acquitted? They said she was found guilty, but more than that they included totally made up quotes and description to go into their story.

 

[MichaelB]

How would you know Michael? How many of the British girls actually testified in trial? Are we really going on what the British tabloids said? Did you read the Daily Mail after Amanda was acquitted? They said she was found guilty, but more than that they included totally made up quotes and description to go into their story.

Huh? The transcripts are available on Amanda's site. Read them like I've done and you'll see exactly what they said.

 

[Rolfe]

LoL. I was aware of that.

Intuitively, though, my feeling is that the digestive system (its various sections, organs and glands) is stressed by extended, heavy drinking, and that for a time afterward it might be slower in processing and transiting food.

That seems to me a reasonable explanation for why the duodenum was still empty at (say) about 9.20, when one would really have expected something by then. What luck for the investigation! (Pity they ignored it.)

It's a completely preposterous explanation for there being nothing in the duodenum by 11.45.

Rolfe.

 

[Grinder]

Actually I didn't. Mathew got that right. It was more an expression than anything else. I said it wasn't necessary to call Briars a liar, NOT that anyone actually had.

On this Grinder, you jumped to a conclusion that I was talking about you or any specific person. I wasn't.

Then use a new paragraph.

 

[Matthew Best]

Then use a new paragraph.

Get over it.

Or rather, apologise and get over it!

 

[kwill]

According to the british girls Amanda and Meredith didn't get along.

I don't think the British women ever said anything about how Amanda felt about Meredith; they only spoke about how they perceived that Meredith felt about Amanda. Meredith herself left nothing to say that she and Amanda "did not get along."

Two people "not getting along" usually means each of them has some kind of problem with the other. The usual suggestion is that Amanda disliked Meredith for being smarter/cooler/more popular/too prudish, isn't it?

And yet not a single person has ever come up with a single instance of Amanda so much as looking at Meredith with her eyebrows raised, much less bad-mouthing her, much less plotting to punish her, much less murdering her.

Mignini's closing arguments in the original trial on this subject make for some of the most disturbing reading I've ever seen outside of cheap, badly written detective novels.

 

[Grinder]

No Curatolo saw them when he arrived. Then he read his paper.He did not watch them continuously by his own account. It may have seemed that they never left because when they returned after the attack they were still in the same area.They waited for the tow truck to depart to return..Having had a fair amount of time to read his paper he probably increased the frequency he glanced at the couple. By this time they have been talking animatedly and checking over the rail.

Oh please. Translate his testimony. He saw them when he arrived shortly after 9:30. He looked up several times and saw them. He never looked up and didn't see them. The access was limited from 10:30 to 11:15 by the car and tow truck.

So they went straight from Raf's to the plaza and hung out for some reason until 10. When do you think Curatolo looked up? Meredith has been home for an hour by this time and made the odd calls. She was still wearing her outside outfit. She hadn't called back her mom or done any texting or emailing or surfing.

They somehow get to the cottage, meet Rudy, enter the cottage, murder Meredith, clean themselves, and run back to the plaza and stay until just before midnight. How they avoid being seen by anyone including the car people or truck driver is a mystery.

 

[acbytesla]

Huh? The transcripts are available on Amanda's site. Read them like I've done and you'll see exactly what they said.

I don't see any transcripts on Amanda;s site, maybe I'm overlooking them. Please provide a link. There are transcripts on IIP. Is that what you meant?

 

[Grinder]

I don't think the British women ever said anything about how Amanda felt about Meredith; they only spoke about how they perceived that Meredith felt about Amanda. Meredith herself left nothing to say that she and Amanda "did not get along."

I agree except I don't understand the last sentence. All the stories about their relationship seem to be hearsay unless Meredith wrote somebody.

Two people "not getting along" usually means each of them has some kind of problem with the other. The usual suggestion is that Amanda disliked Meredith for being smarter/cooler/more popular/too prudish, isn't it?

That is PGP standard fodder. Amanda was easily as accomplished as Meredith and mores o in sport and musically. While Meredith had earned a Erasmus scholarship and Amanda hadn't, Amanda had earned admittance to a much higher rated institution. Meredith was dating a guy growing pot and going for a BA (Dr. in Italy) while Amanda was dating a grad student from a wealthy family. Amanda had a job, Meredith didn't.

Meredith was no prude.

 

[Grinder]

I don't see any transcripts on Amanda;s site, maybe I'm overlooking them. Please provide a link. There are transcripts on IIP. Is that what you meant?

I'm sure Mathew is cross posting to help you at this moment but here's the link

While they may not have said the same things under oath I don't think that makes the journalists liars.

 

[acbytesla]

Meredith was no prude.

I really laugh about the suggestion of this vibrator being a bone of contention with Meredith or any of the girls. Meredith was giving relationship advice to Amanda suggesting that casual sex wasn't for Amanda. What's more, this is 2007 no 1950. 20 year old girls/women are much more sophisticated. There is very little stigma associated with masturbation and sex toys today. Meredith, was enjoying a casual sexual relationship with Giacomo who was keeping her at arms length making sure that it should be known that their relationship was not exclusive and casual.