Continuation Part Six: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[acbytesla]

Frank claimed he was arrested in Perugia due to his advocacy for the defendants. This is an important lie which helped to foster the bad Mignini myth. Truth is his sister called police because of a domestic issue.

What does Frank's domestic issues have to do with Amanda's guilt or innocence?

What does Frank's domestic issue have to do with Mignini?

Yes Frank despise Mignini as do countless other people including Mario Spezi, Doug Preston and others.

I doubt Frank is a perfect person. He may have issues, but this doesn't mean that Mignini etc don't have problems as well.

 

[Poppy1016]

Nothing will come of any charges against Mignini. Papers are still confused over the Monster of Florence Spezi , Preston connection . All in good time that debacle will be sorted. Thanks for the compliment about Mach, but really he knows far more about the case and system then I do.

But you have obviously copied, and used his ridiculous style of making an argument. Vagueness and speculation are all you have.

 

[Grinder]

Over a toilet of course not and Crini didn't say that was the reason. He speculated how an argument started , the frustration were already present . The complex nature of Amanda and the collective disfunction of the defendants caused a scenario to erupt.

I realize there is no point asking but could you give any proof that Amanda was any of the things, before or after, that Crini says?

He speculated that Meredith became outraged because Rudy took a dump in the other bathroom and didn't flush? Really? Wouldn't you think she would be mad at her boyfriends buddy Rudy?

Would you also describe Meredith in the same way. She had been engaging in anal sex with Giacomo and had been cited for public intoxication. She was well known by bar owners in Perugia. She was in a music video and we all know about drugs and rock 'n roll. She was helping produce drugs with the boyfriend. She was so drunk the night before that some argue there was still alcohol in her system when killed.

The noise ticket being the only "record" Amanda had was less than a public intoxication citation.

 

[Strozzi]

Why don't you do us a favor and do a proper translation. Do you think his approach is the right approach? Should guilt hang on alleged hygiene?

I am a bit tired of reading PIP and prosecutor charges about Knox lacking hygiene skills. I lived is southern Europe, Africa, and Asia for many years. I had a friend in Thailand who managed a large modern manufacturing plant in Bangkok for American Standard, perhaps the largest manufacturer of bathroom fixtures in the world. I toured his plant with him and discussed materials and operational issues and reviewed statistical data. The truth about bathroom fixtures is that toilets in some parts of the world including southern Europe are/were designed differently than the ones used in the US. Their design integrates a horizontal surface inside the bowl which is an old holdover design from the days when feces were collected to be spread as fertilizer in agriculture. That is why some toilet designs require more cleaning with a scrub brush. I've never seen that type of toilet design in the US but I have seen them in southern Europe, Africa, and Asia. If PIP commentators would like to criticize Knox or other foreigners new to Italy for not knowing how to use a night soil toilet the way Briars does, I will be glad to discuss this in more detail.

 

[Grinder]

Here's SA's video walk around the cottage. It seems clear that either window can be seen from the right angle and position but neither would be seen by the vast majority of drivers and there clearly weren't crowds out walking after 8:30 on the night of the dead.

 

[Strozzi]

I realize there is no point asking but could you give any proof that Amanda was any of the things, before or after, that Crini says?

He speculated that Meredith became outraged because Rudy took a dump in the other bathroom and didn't flush? Really? Wouldn't you think she would be mad at her boyfriends buddy Rudy?

Would you also describe Meredith in the same way. She had been engaging in anal sex with Giacomo and had been cited for public intoxication. She was well known by bar owners in Perugia. She was in a music video and we all know about drugs and rock 'n roll. She was helping produce drugs with the boyfriend. She was so drunk the night before that some argue there was still alcohol in her system when killed.

The noise ticket being the only "record" Amanda had was less than a public intoxication citation.

I will point out just for the record that the noise ticket was not aimed specifically at Knox. She lived in a group house with a number of other female students. They had a party at their house which was noisy. Knox answered the door when a police officer arrived and she, as a resident of the house, took the ticket. She took responsibility - did not flee the way the English girls did. She did not lawyer up the way Filomena did. It was not as if Knox committed the infraction herself.

 

[GreyFox]

My point was that both exits from the car park are directly across from the gate. San Antonio is a dangerous street to cross. People needing to cross would cross in from of the gate where they can get off the road onto the shoulder.

So why would there be people walking on a dangerous street on this cold November night ? Where are they all going ? Maybe you and Curatalo still think it happened on Halloween ?

I think your fishing again.

 

[acbytesla]

Here's SA's video walk around the cottage. It seems clear that either window can be seen from the right angle and position but neither would be seen by the vast majority of drivers and there clearly weren't crowds out walking after 8:30 on the night of the dead.

Take notice of the road Grinder. There is no sidewalk or shoulder on either side of the street. I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable walking along that road. It is windy curvy with no shoulder and no room at all. There is the railing on the side where the cottage is and a a 10 to 20 foot wall on the other side there might be a foot between the edge of the road and the wall or the railing. Good place to become road kill. Not exactly pedestrian nirvana. I'm sure lots of cars pass by the cottage and 90 percent probably don't even notice the cottage as they pass by during the day. And at night? Seriously?
This all so much bull.

 

[Briars]

So why would there be people walking on a dangerous street on this cold November night ? Where are they all going ? Maybe you and Curatalo still think it happened on Halloween ?

I think your fishing again.

Three cars are visible near the cottage around 8:40 near by the car park within 3 minutes. The city did not shut down on the 1st people still need somewhere to park outside the Eruscan Arch/restaurant bar strip where no cars are allowed.

 

[Bill Williams]

Frank claimed he was arrested in Perugia due to his advocacy for the defendants. This is an important lie which helped to foster the bad Mignini myth. Truth is his sister called police because of a domestic issue.

What does Frank's domestic issues have to do with Amanda's guilt or innocence?

What does Frank's domestic issue have to do with Mignini?

Yes Frank despise Mignini as do countless other people including Mario Spezi, Doug Preston and others.

I doubt Frank is a perfect person. He may have issues, but this doesn't mean that Mignini etc don't have problems as well.

AFAIK, the hearing last Friday was yet another of the predatory, defamation charges brought by Mignini against just about everyone who criticized him, including Amanda Knox, The West Seattle Herald, Curt Knox and Eddas Mellas and the like. (Strangely, on that last one, neither the newspaper nor the reporter who reported what Knox and Mellas said was included in the defamation charge! Why do you think that was, was it because the author was John Follain? Gee, why would Follain have a "get out of jail free" card from Mignini?)

Picking out one thing and trying to make it be the be-all and end-all of something means ignoring the forest for the trees. What is evident, whether again Sfarzo or the many others, is that SOMEONE is launching defamation charges against a whole litany of people....

Gee, I wonder what THAT'S about?

 

[andreajo]

Over a toilet of course not and Crini didn't say that was the reason. He speculated how an argument started , the frustration were already present . The complex nature of Amanda and the collective disfunction of the defendants caused a scenario to erupt.

What do you mean by "the complex nature of Amanda"? What do you mean by "the collective disfunction of the defendants"? Those are pretty broad and squishy descriptions that could mean anything or nothing. You can't go putting people in prison for their complex natures and unspecified collective dysfunctions.

Apparently there are at least two prosecutors in Italy willing to give it the old college try!

Briars words are weasel words... they are meant to say everything to guilters, with complete deniability built in - which is of course, that they are meant to say nothing.

Thanks for reposting the Massei info, even though it's repetitive work

Reading weasel-wording is crazy-making. Trying to extract relevant real-world meaning from a post like this is like trying to nail Jello to a tree.

 

[Bill Williams]

"Mixed company"? What the heck does THAT refer to?

While we're at it.... given that this was started by saying that "PMF" would handle the translation; my question is, "which PMF?" Peggy's or Michael's? Dot.ORG or Dot.NET? Which one is the one that holds Meredith's memory most properly and therefore can be trusted to supply the "right" translation??

Briars - you've chosen not to answer. Ok.... refusal noted.

 

[Briars]

Take notice of the road Grinder. There is no sidewalk or shoulder on either side of the street. I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable walking along that road. It is windy curvy with no shoulder and no room at all. There is the railing on the side where the cottage is and a a 10 to 20 foot wall on the other side yo might have a foot between the edge of the road and the wall or the railing. Good place to become road kill. Not exactly pedestrian nirvana. I'm sure lots of cars pass by the cottage and 90 percent probably don't even notice the cottage as they pass by during the day. And at night? Seriously?
This all so much bull.

You understand that there is no shoulder now,all the more reason for people leaving or going to the car park to rest on the small strip of land by the gate. The short video not by some alibi, of via della pergola ,shows the observer going down the back stairs behind piazza Grimana and crossing by the gate.

 

[Skind]

You understand that there is no shoulder now,all the more reason for people leaving or going to the car park to rest on the small strip of land by the gate. The short video not by some alibi, of via della pergola ,shows the observer going down the back stairs behind piazza Grimana and crossing by the gate.

Explain why they would need to cross the road to stand over there at all.

Where is the bar/restaurant strip in relation to the car park?

 

[Briars]

Briars - you've chosen not to answer. Ok.... refusal noted.

Answer what? I told you weeks ago I neither understand or care in the least about any split between the boardsThey continues to share info ,Peter supports the reporting of Frank by .net. What is your little point here? BTW the hearing for Mignini is Jan 15th I learned that from you. It was not on my radar because I believe nothing will come of any charges. So whatever you were going on about before involving that date and what I said is something in your head.
I was right about Comodi and I also said here Amanda should have paid her debt to Lumumba before the Florence Appeal started so you might want to trust my judgment a little.

 

[Bill Williams]

Thanks for reposting the Massei info, even though it's repetitive work

Reading weasel-wording is crazy-making. Trying to extract relevant real-world meaning from a post like this is like trying to nail Jello to a tree.

Welcome to dietrology!

Dietrology is the meaning all guilters know it means, but which the uninitiated have no access to. Machiavelli is particularly good at dietrology.... it becomes no good to put and post public documents, cut and paste, because his response is something akin to.....

... that there's some hidden meaning unavailable to us uninitiated, unrevealed in the plain meaning of a text.

Take Machiavelli's defence of Andrea Vogt's misreporting of Knox's statement, "I was there." Many years ago Andrea Vogt reported that Knox saying, "I was there"," (captured in a secret recording between her and her mother while in prison)....

... meant a virtual confession on Knox's part.

Then when one follows the larger context, it becomes obvious that the "there" in "I was there" is Raffaele's cottage.

Machiavelli argued tooth and nail that Vogt had not misreported. Again, true to form, rather than present any evidence, he simply continued to assert this. He continually asked for proof on the other side....

..... but before proof could be offered, Machiavelli did a very strange, dietrological thing. He admitted that perhaps the "I was there" could be mistaken for an admission that Knox had been at Raffaele's... but that the over all tenor of the whole exchange between Knox and her mother, was really "Mafia code", indicating guilt for Knox.

That was a peek behind the curtain into the "dietrology". Nothing is ever at the most obvious level of plain-text reading. Same with the issue of what Judge Massei said about Knox's alleged "psychopathology" that guilters love to throw around - like Briars did just upthread.

Despite cutting and pasting Massei's ACTUAL statements on that regard, that Knox and Sollecito had no psychopathology, Machiavelli goes on and on about how these obvious statements in Massei's report are not the whole story, that everyone knows......

..... what? Except that Machiavelli continues to make assertions about Knox's and Sollecito's psychopathology, regardless of what Massei said.

All because there's some hidden meaning unavailable to the uninitiated in hatred. It is crazy making.

It had far more traction before Oct 3, 2011, because afterall, before Oct 3, 2011 both Knox and Sollecito stood provisionally convicted by a first instance court and were in jail. I mean, to the unbiased outsider, there must be SOME reason why a court had convicted them and they were in jail?

Turned out, there was not.

Then the ISC said there was, and gave twelve things to review back in March 2013 in quashing the acquittals. To the unbiased mind this, too, might give credence to the underlying dietrology...... I mean, a national Supreme Court doesn't do things on a whim does it?

Apparently in Italy they do. The dietrology of no-motive (as per both Massei and Hellmann, believe it or not) now becomes a "sex-game gone wrong" in the hands of the ISC which is only supposed to be ruling on matters of law to begin with!

Then Crini actually has to prosecute this and we get outright denials of the ISC's quashing points...... it's not a sex-game gone wrong, it is pooh in the toilet! Apparently the pooh in the toilet buttresses the underlying dietrology better than a sex-game gone wrong because....

..... well, no one really knows because dietrology being dietrology, it is unknowable to begin with.

Is anyone made crazy yet? I am.

 

[GreyFox]

No one has demonstrated how anyone could get in through the broken broken glass opening without leaving a fibre or speck of dirt anywhere.The only clue was Amanda's DNA mixed with the victim's blood. I'm not the dense one here.

Uhmm pardon me but with all of your B & E experience your forgetting the possible use of gloves.

While you give Nancy a hard time about Frank being a blogger who makes **** up I would note the highlighted portion from your post is not only an outright LIE it was taken from tabloid trash that you are presenting as truth.

Back up the statement you made about blood and DNA being in Flo's room !
Site your source please.

 

[Briars]

Explain why they would need to cross the road to stand over there at all.

Where is the bar/restaurant strip in relation to the car park?

The carpark is on the outside of the walled city. Typically few cars are allowed to enter the centro storico. The Etruscan walled arch is a main entrance to a pedestrian foot street lined with restaurants and bars. People frequenting this area would take advantage of the car park parking close by. Formica did. There is a busy intersection before the gate ,people walking in a direction towards the gate would cross close to the gate and not in the middle of traffic crossing three ways.

 

[Bill Williams]

Answer what? I told you weeks ago I neither understand or care in the least about any split between the boardsThey continues to share info ,Peter supports the reporting of Frank by .net. What is your little point here? BTW the hearing for Mignini is Jan 15th I learned that from you. It was not on my radar because I believe nothing will come of any charges. So whatever you were going on about before involving that date and what I said is something in your head.
I was right about Comodi and I also said here Amanda should have paid her debt to Lumumba before the Florence Appeal started so you might want to trust my judgment a little.

You first have to give me a reason to!

And it is informative that you care little about the split between the two PMF's as they continue to compete over the claim of representing Meredith's memory the best. Does not THAT concern you?

 

[andreajo]

Welcome to dietrology!

Dietrology is the meaning all guilters know it means, but which the uninitiated have no access to. Machiavelli is particularly good at dietrology.... it becomes no good to put and post public documents, cut and paste, because his response is something akin to.....

... that there's some hidden meaning unavailable to us uninitiated, unrevealed in the plain meaning of a text.

Take Machiavelli's defence of Andrea Vogt's misreporting of Knox's statement, "I was there." Many years ago Andrea Vogt reported that Knox saying, "I was there"," (captured in a secret recording between her and her mother while in prison)....

... meant a virtual confession on Knox's part.

Then when one follows the larger context, it becomes obvious that the "there" in "I was there" is Raffaele's cottage.

Machiavelli argued tooth and nail that Vogt had not misreported. Again, true to form, rather than present any evidence, he simply continued to assert this. He continually asked for proof on the other side....

..... but before proof could be offered, Machiavelli did a very strange, dietrological thing. He admitted that perhaps the "I was there" could be mistaken for an admission that Knox had been at Raffaele's... but that the over all tenor of the whole exchange between Knox and her mother, was really "Mafia code", indicating guilt for Knox.

That was a peek behind the curtain into the "dietrology". Nothing is ever at the most obvious level of plain-text reading. Same with the issue of what Judge Massei said about Knox's alleged "psychopathology" that guilters love to throw around - like Briars did just upthread.

Despite cutting and pasting Massei's ACTUAL statements on that regard, that Knox and Sollecito had no psychopathology, Machiavelli goes on and on about how these obvious statements in Massei's report are not the whole story, that everyone knows......

..... what? Except that Machiavelli continues to make assertions about Knox's and Sollecito's psychopathology, regardless of what Massei said.

All because there's some hidden meaning unavailable to the uninitiated in hatred. It is crazy making.

It had far more traction before Oct 3, 2011, because afterall, before Oct 3, 2011 both Knox and Sollecito stood provisionally convicted by a first instance court and were in jail. I mean, to the unbiased outsider, there must be SOME reason why a court had convicted them and they were in jail?

Turned out, there was not.

Then the ISC said there was, and gave twelve things to review back in March 2013 in quashing the acquittals. To the unbiased mind this, too, might give credence to the underlying dietrology...... I mean, a national Supreme Court doesn't do things on a whim does it?

Apparently in Italy they do. The dietrology of no-motive (as per both Massei and Hellmann, believe it or not) now becomes a "sex-game gone wrong" in the hands of the ISC which is only supposed to be ruling on matters of law to begin with!

Then Crini actually has to prosecute this and we get outright denials of the ISC's quashing points...... it's not a sex-game gone wrong, it is pooh in the toilet! Apparently the pooh in the toilet buttresses the underlying dietrology better than a sex-game gone wrong because....

..... well, no one really knows because dietrology being dietrology, it is unknowable to begin with.

Is anyone made crazy yet? I am.

I feel so prosaic. I just cannot get on the dietrology train.