Continuation Part Six: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[moije2]

I have just finished making my way part way through the google translated argument by Crini. Granted, it is a google translation and quite an effort is required to wade through it. Holy Crikey! Someone up above posted about the level of BS proffered by Monsieur Horsehair. My main thought was sympathy for Bongiorno. OMG. Can you imagine sitting through so much meandering BS? I thought I was in purgatory when I did a 4 day jury trial. How does a person stay awake during so much garbazhe? It is amazing that in the 21st century people still think that this qualifies as communication. It reminds me of a college professor in a philosopy course whose fall back phrase was "as it were". I think the operative word is obtuse.

 

[moije2]

Pacelli: muddy outside, black inside

Really? Really!? Hollywood here we come. You can't write this kind of ...

"So, Mr President and Gentlemen of the Court, who is Amanda Knox? And 'that mild, sweet, face soap and water, you see in television talk shows today, or is that me, but not me, the lyrics, his most intimate English friends, roommates Italian, Italian housemates, her friend from school, I have described as luxurious and dedicated to drugs and alcohol addict? As well as, I repeat, is the trial papers. I tell you, Amanda is the one and the other. In her lives a double soul: angelic, good, compassionate, I have already on other occasions to define the Santa Maria Goretti, tender, naive, and that devilish, demonic, satanic, diabolical, which leads her to live the type of conduct borderline extreme behavior and adopt dissolute. And it was the Amanda of November 1, 2007. Amanda at the time the crime was concentrated, made an explosive mixture of sex, drugs and alcohol, not separated by a marked lack of hygienic care. It must be said loud and clear, Gentlemen of the Court: Amanda was a girl because it was muddy outside black inside. And you cannot be candid outside unless you are neat and clean in the folds of the soul and spirit. And this is Amanda Knox at the time. And this is Amanda Knox that you will have to judge. This is the painful truth, this is the genesis of the sad facts horrendous that admits of no doubt."

 

[NancyS]

bill nothing will come of any charges against Mignini why are you asking?What do you think about your go to guy Frank for all things bad about Mignini? His own sister called police , it had nothing to do with the prosecutor. The blogger has O credibility and you rely on him to keep the fantasy going. What have you dug up on Crini?

Migini is a powerful prosecutor/public figure and the many examples of his unethical/illegal behaviour should be investigated - and he should not be allowed to continue working in his position. Comparing him to a blogger, who does not have the same degree of power and privilege is completely irrelevant and completely missing the point

 

[Samson]

Really? Really!? Hollywood here we come. You can't write this kind of ...

"So, Mr President and Gentlemen of the Court, who is Amanda Knox? And 'that mild, sweet, face soap and water, you see in television talk shows today, or is that me, but not me, the lyrics, his most intimate English friends, roommates Italian, Italian housemates, her friend from school, I have described as luxurious and dedicated to drugs and alcohol addict? As well as, I repeat, is the trial papers. I tell you, Amanda is the one and the other. In her lives a double soul: angelic, good, compassionate, I have already on other occasions to define the Santa Maria Goretti, tender, naive, and that devilish, demonic, satanic, diabolical, which leads her to live the type of conduct borderline extreme behavior and adopt dissolute. And it was the Amanda of November 1, 2007. Amanda at the time the crime was concentrated, made an explosive mixture of sex, drugs and alcohol, not separated by a marked lack of hygienic care. It must be said loud and clear, Gentlemen of the Court: Amanda was a girl because it was muddy outside black inside. And you cannot be candid outside unless you are neat and clean in the folds of the soul and spirit. And this is Amanda Knox at the time. And this is Amanda Knox that you will have to judge. This is the painful truth, this is the genesis of the sad facts horrendous that admits of no doubt."

This is a heady cocktail of cross cultural nonsense, translated to deliver a semantically challenging fabrication, worthy of an Italian opera libretto. Thank you for posting, I genuinely enjoyed the read, I hope others do.
Clearly there is a continuum from the completely rational to the completely fantasmagorical.
It would be reasonable for R+A to expect the rational to prevail.

 

[katy_did]

It's interesting to see Brairs come here and boldly redefine reality to make his point.

Though he may be right that Filomena's window can be seen from the gate, you have to step down from the road in order to stand in front of the gate where the window is visible.

Also, in 2007 there were pedestrian crossing marking and signs putting the crossing point at the end of the ramp to the upper level matching up with where the sidewalk on that ramp is.

But don't just take my word on this. Look it up in street view on Google Maps.

If it really were so easy to see the house from the road, you have to wonder why both the postal police and the Carabinieri had such a hard time finding it, in the latter case even having to call for directions.

I think the house is in a pretty good location for a break-in no matter which way a burglar chooses to enter, since it's so isolated from any other houses, below the level of the road, and as you say, there's no particular reason for a pedestrian to walk past it.

 

[Strozzi]

If it really were so easy to see the house from the road, you have to wonder why both the postal police and the Carabinieri had such a hard time finding it, in the latter case even having to call for directions.

I think the house is in a pretty good location for a break-in no matter which way a burglar chooses to enter, since it's so isolated from any other houses, below the level of the road, and as you say, there's no particular reason for a pedestrian to walk past it.

The house's car park where Rudy apparently stood when he through the rock offers five directions of escape if detected. Up the stairs and past the basketball area, which Rudy knows so well. Into the parking garage and through its various uphill exits.
Escape in 2 directions along the winding road. Downhill run from the house's yard through trees and heavy foliage.

 

[Briars]

Migini is a powerful prosecutor/public figure and the many examples of his unethical/illegal behaviour should be investigated - and he should not be allowed to continue working in his position. Comparing him to a blogger, who does not have the same degree of power and privilege is completely irrelevant and completely missing the point

Comparing them? Who has missed the point? They are opposite .The blogger has been a main source for FOA , feeding distorted information about Mignini. His particular style blames his own shortcomings and crimes on others. His writing has been taken for truth by IIP , Dempsey ,the US media ,and you. That was my point.

 

[Grinder]

This is a heady cocktail of cross cultural nonsense, translated to deliver a semantically challenging fabrication, worthy of an Italian opera libretto. Thank you for posting, I genuinely enjoyed the read, I hope others do.
Clearly there is a continuum from the completely rational to the completely fantasmagorical.
It would be reasonable for R+A to expect the rational to prevail.

I too enjoyed it and hope we get at least this part translated by an Italian speaker not named Goggle.

How can he make these disparaging remarks about he without having ever met her and without specifics. Unhygienic? What is that based on? Perhaps the idiot Sharon Feinstein is the source.

ETA - The Italian courts are a little like Grimm's Fairly Tales. I have come to accept that sort reasoning from those at schadenfreude.com or net but really this talk of bathroom habits as a reason to convict.

 

[Briars]

It's interesting to see Brairs come here and boldly redefine reality to make his point.

Though he may be right that Filomena's window can be seen from the gate, you have to step down from the road in order to stand in front of the gate where the window is visible.

Also, in 2007 there were pedestrian crossing marking and signs putting the crossing point at the end of the ramp to the upper level matching up with where the sidewalk on that ramp is.

But don't just take my word on this. Look it up in street view on Google Maps.

You may have to go down a slight gravel incline to reach the gate but there is nothing to block the view of the window and the white building. There is a short not great video on utube of Via Della Pergola.A walk by the cottage coming from the stairs behind piazza Grimana and crossing Sant Antonio by the cottage gate. This one,the observer does not stand in front of the gate however he quickly walks by and views the cottage across from the car park.

 

[Briars]

Really? Really!? Hollywood here we come. You can't write this kind of ...

"So, Mr President and Gentlemen of the Court, who is Amanda Knox? And 'that mild, sweet, face soap and water, you see in television talk shows today, or is that me, but not me, the lyrics, his most intimate English friends, roommates Italian, Italian housemates, her friend from school, I have described as luxurious and dedicated to drugs and alcohol addict? As well as, I repeat, is the trial papers. I tell you, Amanda is the one and the other. In her lives a double soul: angelic, good, compassionate, I have already on other occasions to define the Santa Maria Goretti, tender, naive, and that devilish, demonic, satanic, diabolical, which leads her to live the type of conduct borderline extreme behavior and adopt dissolute. And it was the Amanda of November 1, 2007. Amanda at the time the crime was concentrated, made an explosive mixture of sex, drugs and alcohol, not separated by a marked lack of hygienic care. It must be said loud and clear, Gentlemen of the Court: Amanda was a girl because it was muddy outside black inside. And you cannot be candid outside unless you are neat and clean in the folds of the soul and spirit. And this is Amanda Knox at the time. And this is Amanda Knox that you will have to judge. This is the painful truth, this is the genesis of the sad facts horrendous that admits of no doubt."

Google translate is your problem

 

[Grinder]

Google translate is your problem

Why don't you do us a favor and do a proper translation. Do you think his approach is the right approach? Should guilt hang on alleged hygiene?

 

[Bill Williams]

Comparing them? Who has missed the point? They are opposite .The blogger has been a main source for FOA , feeding distorted information about Mignini. His particular style blames his own shortcomings and crimes on others. His writing has been taken for truth by IIP , Dempsey ,the US media ,and you. That was my point.

I think you are confused. It's not that this obscure blogger created the facts, it's that that blogger reported on the facts that many, now, are discovering for themselves are true.

I see you also slipped in this myth that it is the US Media who has been bamboozled by this obscure blogger - that is the myth that Andrea Vogt and Barbie Nadeau always try to get away with to explain why they now cannot make money off of this tragedy involving Meredith Kercher -well, all except Nadeau who is now going to make a ton of money selling film rights to Winterbttom.

You forgot that now almost all UK media outlets - including the Daily Mail - as well as some Italian outlets are writing about the lunacy of the continuing wrongful prosecution of two innocents - Knox and Sollecito.

It's fascinating to watch, really - the RIS Carabinieri come up with a DNA report which vindicated Conti & Vecchiotti's report to the Hellmann court, and you keep wanting to shoot the messengers...

Mignini is heading off to Turin for a new abuse of office trial, and you only response is to slag the paper in which the info is printed, and say, "besides, Frank Sfarzo writes for them."

This is truly fascinating to read these things. You've taken up Machiavelli\s place here... he leaves, you arrive. With the same suspect information.... and the same confirmation bias.

 

[Grinder]

You make have to go down a slight gravel incline to reach the gate but there is nothing to block the view of the window and the white building. There is a short not great video on utube of Via Della Pergola.A walk by the cottage coming from the stairs behind piazza Grimana and crossing Sant Antonio by the cottage gate. This one,the observer does not stand in front of the gate however he quickly walks by and views the cottage across from the car park.

Why not link a YouTube if it's of value?

The truth is that on that holiday night not that many people were out on foot. How many video captures were there from the car park camera. We know that no one from that car park came forward with any information except if you wish to count the woman bumped into by the black man.

People generally look straight ahead and don't look up or down. That's why the best shelves in a store are those closest to eye level. I seem to remember some study of a naked person in a third story window that no one noticed.

The cottage was situated enough below the road to be "invisible" to most everyone.

Maybe you could come back to your timeline and explain how the kids could run across the road to the cottage and not be seen by the crowd at the car park.

 

[Briars]

I think you are confused. It's not that this obscure blogger created the facts, it's that that blogger reported on the facts that many, now, are discovering for themselves are true.

I see you also slipped in this myth that it is the US Media who has been bamboozled by this obscure blogger - that is the myth that Andrea Vogt and Barbie Nadeau always try to get away with to explain why they now cannot make money off of this tragedy involving Meredith Kercher -well, all except Nadeau who is now going to make a ton of money selling film rights to Winterbttom.

You forgot that now almost all UK media outlets - including the Daily Mail - as well as some Italian outlets are writing about the lunacy of the continuing wrongful prosecution of two innocents - Knox and Sollecito.

It's fascinating to watch, really - the RIS Carabinieri come up with a DNA report which vindicated Conti & Vecchiotti's report to the Hellmann court, and you keep wanting to shoot the messengers...

Mignini is heading off to Turin for a new abuse of office trial, and you only response is to slag the paper in which the info is printed, and say, "besides, Frank Sfarzo writes for them."

This is truly fascinating to read these things. You've taken up Machiavelli\s place here... he leaves, you arrive. With the same suspect information.... and the same confirmation bias.

Nothing will come of any charges against Mignini. Papers are still confused over the Monster of Florence Spezi , Preston connection . All in good time that debacle will be sorted. Thanks for the compliment about Mach, but really he knows far more about the case and system then I do.

 

[moije2]

Google translate is your problem

Then I have Google translate to thank for this "entertainment".

But somehow I think that the flavor of his statements would not change significantly with a better translation. Are you saying that the intent and characterization of what we see by this google translation is not correct? I was under the impression that you would be accepting of this characterization because you believe she is a ***** killer. (insert adjective of choice). If not, what is wrong with it?

 

[Bill Williams]

Nothing will come of any charges against Mignini. Papers are still confused over the Monster of Florence Spezi , Preston connection . All in good time that debacle will be sorted. Thanks for the compliment about Mach, but really he knows far more about the case and system then I do.

Sad, when you think about it...

From my point of view Mignini is in a bit of a bind, and (as Andrea Vogt says will probably happen) he looks forward to a verdict on Jan 15. I was going to say, "one way or another", but that is what verdicts are! That's what happens at trials! In my opinion when you say, "Nothing will come of any charges against Mignini", that is perhaps what Mignini is telling his supporters. May as well be optimistic.

I also consider it a possibility that this will happen, that he could be acquitted, so relax a bit will you! In Italy, it takes a lot for their system to discipline a PM.

But remember, the scope of THIS thread is that Machiavelli denied that the Jan 15 hearing was the trial. Machiavelli said that it was only the prelim. That is the bone of contention, suggesting that Machiavelli is simply passing on bad information.

The second worst case scenario for Mignini, really, is that the charges against him for abuse of office over the Narducci affair would simply lapse... no prelim setting over for trial, and no trial to finally solve the issue.

He's like many accused of crimes, he wants his day in court to prove his innocence, even though strictly speaking he needs to prove nothing. Yet he knows that the only reason the first conviction (or abuse of office) was overturned was on a jurisdictional issue, and the outstanding legal issues would have continued to dog him - if there was no subsequent trial, like what is happening in Turin 15 Jan.

As far as this thread is concerned, it's been fascinating to see how a discussion on the nature of the Jan 15 hearing (is it the trial or is it the prelim?) keeps getting reframed by you and Machiavelli.... "Nothing will come of any charges against Mignini......."

I was not speculating on outcome. You are. Because of your admission above I believe you write what you write not because you know so, but because Machiavelli told you. He's the fellow who says that Amanda Knox can choose not to sleep and be immune from deprivation effect. He's the one who says that Knox and her mother talked "in Mafia code" in many of the recordings the police made of their private conversations...

... and he's the one who denies the illegality of the interrogations NOT being recorded!

All this is part and parcel of the "defence of Mignini" which continues Jan 15. The worst scenario for Mignini would have been if the abuse of office charges against him simply lapsed... because then people like you and me would continue to keep that issue alive ad infinitum... me slagging him, you defending him, with nothing in the docket, really, to refer to.

So, I do not doubt that there's a possibility that Mignini will be found "not guilty". But even a "not guilty" finding will not put away the tarnish to his reputation in his inept and perhaps criminal handling of both the Narducci affair, as well as the wrongful prosecution of Knox and Sollecito.

The only things I'd modify about your claim about the coming trial , is to put it this way: "(It's a distinct possibility that) Nothing will come of any charges against Mignini, (but that unless he is unequivocally cleared of wrongdoing, this will dog him the rest of his sad career.)"

You see, my belief is that you are confusing Mignini telling his supporters that he'll be cleared, with whether or not this is the trial coming up. With all due respect, it is you conflating those two issues because you're getting bac information from Machiavelli, and uncritically passing it on.

 

[acbytesla]

Why not link a YouTube if it's of value?

People generally look straight ahead and don't look up or down. That's why the best shelves in a store are those closest to eye level. I seem to remember some study of a naked person in a third story window that no one noticed.

The cottage was situated enough below the road to be "invisible" to most everyone.

Wow!!! That's two in a row Grinder. I was going to say the exact same thing. The stores put things at "eye level" which is why the most valuable shelve space is 5 feet off the ground and it's also why kids cereal is placed at 2 feet off the ground.

But frankly, at 9 o'clock in the evening I doubt you would have to worry all that much. Rudy breaks the window and then waits for anyone to come and notice. They don't ...good. then he scales the wall and is in. It's really very simple.

Even if you heard the glass breaking from the car park and you look around to see what happened? Are you really going to be able to pick out the window that was broke? And if Rudy isn't climbing the wall right at that moment, you're not going to notice. Cars are prowled at night all the time and stereos are stolen and one of the most common methods of breaking into a car is smashing the window. My cop friend one time told me that one evening he rode through an apartment parking lot and discovered more than 20 cars with their windows smashed. And not a single resident call the cops. He just came upon the scene. Same think happens in mall parking lots. Leave your shopping bags out in the open in the mall during x-mas season and you are just someone to smash your window and stealing your x-mas presents.

Notice that there were only two ear witnesses and no one to say they heard the glass break.

Burglaries are often brazen. Frankly, they count on the general public to be in their own little world and not notice what is happening right under their noses.

The real question is why is Briars trying so desperately seeking to throw doubt on a method of entry that he must know is more than possible? BTW, the Studio Legale was broken into a few blocks away is a much more conspicuous location than the cottage.

Rudy maybe a stupid burglar, but he doesn't seem to get spooked easy, see his performance at the nursery.

 

[acbytesla]

Nothing will come of any charges against Mignini. Papers are still confused over the Monster of Florence Spezi , Preston connection . All in good time that debacle will be sorted. Thanks for the compliment about Mach, but really he knows far more about the case and system then I do.

How do you know Briars? Mach is wrong a lot. Sure, he's right on occasion. Maybe, Mach is getting his info from Mignini who is just putting up a front.

 

[Briars]

Why not link a YouTube if it's of value?

The truth is that on that holiday night not that many people were out on foot. How many video captures were there from the car park camera. We know that no one from that car park came forward with any information except if you wish to count the woman bumped into by the black man.

People generally look straight ahead and don't look up or down. That's why the best shelves in a store are those closest to eye level. I seem to remember some study of a naked person in a third story window that no one noticed.

The cottage was situated enough below the road to be "invisible" to most everyone.

Maybe you could come back to your timeline and explain how the kids could run across the road to the cottage and not be seen by the crowd at the car park.

I have trouble linking video's with my I pad maybe you can, via della pergola utube. I never suggested there was a crowd nor did there need to be for Rudy to worry about a passerby seeing him. The video of the car park on the 1st shows two cars near the gate a and a car entering the car park. There is also someone exiting that has not been positively identified as Rudy. Plenty of activity in less that 3 minutes. When I was n Perugia around 8:30 near the car park there were at least 3 cars coming and going at that hour. Parking is difficult to find in the historic centre so the car park is well used. At 10:30 pm there just may not have been a car , lucky for them. However witnesses heard the scream and reported the man running up the stairs.

 

[Briars]

How do you know Briars? Mach is wrong a lot. Sure, he's right on occasion. Maybe, Mach is getting his info from Mignini who is just putting up a front.

What are the charges against Spezi? Do you believe they are real?