Continuation Part Six: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Briars]

Sure he did. This is not rocket science. It would have taken all of ten seconds to get in the window. And if the rock crashing through the window had not attracted attention, there'd be a reasonable surmise that suspicion was not there to be attracted.

This is far, far better than being out in the open on the deck - a deck which is fully exposed to the road, and lit by a street light. At least at Filomena's window if Rudy had been spotted, he could simply jump down into the darkness below where there is plenty of cover.

Second storey people know the risks.... the problem with the talk about the break-in, from both sides, is that we are analysing to death what Rudy would have done by instinct, knowing that there's always the possibility of getting caught.

He would have broken the window with the rock, taken a brief look around, and been up and in the window before any of us are finished typing our own speculations here.....

It makes no sense to choose a point where someone could exit the car park at any time. The 10 minutes is your time and hardly respects the climb. The demo video by the expert climber had the advantage of window bars to grip and no need to remove glass to enter. By your scenario a pedestrian hearing the window smash exiting the car park could have been crossed the street to the gate and watched Rudy pick glass out of the sill at about 8:50. While he is rummaging in the room and sitting on the toilet police could have even been called. There arrival would could have coincided with his attack on Meredith. The other points of entry have the advantage of virtually no foot traffic , and certainly no unexpected traffic like that near the car park.

 

[Grinder]

But if you prefer set up a false dichotomy on this issue. and/or you prefer to carry on chuckling about "airline pilots" in the misguided and scornful belief that the broad principles discussed in that paper were not relevant to our case, then please carry on at your own pleasure.......

The paper was very specific to pilots and dealing with exacting BAC because very significant impacts depending on those results. It is clear that pilots that are fatally injured in crashes often have severe trauma and are not found and recovered immediately. Often I imagine it might take days to recover the body and the blood work isn't usually done on sight.

The temperatures obviously vary depending when and where the crash occurs.

In the case of Meredith she was kept on a cool/cold tile floor, was covered and had limited trauma as compared to many fatally injured pilots. Those were the key variables that I picked up from the paper.

The broad principals apply but not so much in this case.

It probably doesn't make any difference. I have always thought that the English girls may have wanted to leave the best impression of her and like you didn't think her having drinks was a need to know.

If she drank a couple of wines with dinner that could account for a slower digestion which I believe fits the time better of her being murdered. Rolfe seems to be saying 9:05 IIRC and I'm guessing she thinks 3 hours after commencement of dinner is at the outer limits.

 

[Briars]

There are risk burglarizing homes, but most burglaries don't happen at night, they actually happen during the day while most people are at work. And they are wham bam thank you mam. They kick open a door, break a window and they are in. Very very few burglaries are "caught in the act". Burglars might take a quick look around and that's it.

I think it interesting that Briars says that Rudy could be "seen from the gate. So? A he noted there isn't really a walkway there. Other than one of the residents living at the house, there is little reason for someone to be standing at that gate. In the channel 5 documentary, it took the guy climbing the wall all of ten seconds to go from the ground to sitting on the window sill. Assuming that Rudy through the rock from the parking lot through the window and then went down below the window where he couldn't have been seen climbing up the wall until he was at the window. Rudy would have been in view breaking for 15 or 20 seconds tops. Ever have to break into you own home, because you locked yourself out? I've broken into my own home at least 4 of 5 times because of this. I've also broken into friends houses under similar circumstances. NOT once has anyone ever called the police because they saw someone breaking in.

My point was that both exits from the car park are directly across from the gate. San Antonio is a dangerous street to cross. People needing to cross would cross in from of the gate where they can get off the road onto the shoulder.

 

[Grinder]

I realize the topic has moved on from here but I would like to add another point about pedestrian traffic on San Antonio. Pedestrians exiting from the car park both from the lower and upper park are directly across from the cottage gate. It is a strategic point to cross and enter the park .Further along either way there is no shoulder and crossing the winding road is difficult. Filomena's window is visible from the gate. This choice for a break-in around 8:40 makes no sense. Rudy would have no idea who was going to exit the car park heading into town precisely as he smashed the window or was making one or two climbs. People crossing the road would look in either direction it is a dangerous stretch,the white wall of the cottage stands out even at night. Rudy had no way of timing his climb and be certain no one leaving or returning to the garage could see him.

It seems that when convenient there is much traffic of cars and people there but when not convenient there aren't a lot of people.

If the risk was high then there must have been people around. If there were people around why didn't any of them hear the scream, see the three running or remembering the kids coming down from the plaza and going back up?

It makes no sense to choose a point where someone could exit the car park at any time. The 10 minutes is your time and hardly respects the climb. The demo video by the expert climber had the advantage of window bars to grip and no need to remove glass to enter. By your scenario a pedestrian hearing the window smash exiting the car park could have been crossed the street to the gate and watched Rudy pick glass out of the sill at about 8:50. While he is rummaging in the room and sitting on the toilet police could have even been called. There arrival would could have coincided with his attack on Meredith. The other points of entry have the advantage of virtually no foot traffic , and certainly no unexpected traffic like that near the car park.

He said 10 seconds. While I too like the balcony better, it doesn't really matter because we didn't choose it.

Do you think that no one would notice the rock breaking glass if it were staged? Why didn't Nara hear that if she could hear running feet?

Why didn't the kids just break the balcony window that went into the kitchen?

 

[andreajo]

It makes no sense to choose a point where someone could exit the car park at any time. The 10 minutes is your time and hardly respects the climb. The demo video by the expert climber had the advantage of window bars to grip and no need to remove glass to enter. By your scenario a pedestrian hearing the window smash exiting the car park could have been crossed the street to the gate and watched Rudy pick glass out of the sill at about 8:50. While he is rummaging in the room and sitting on the toilet police could have even been called. There arrival would could have coincided with his attack on Meredith. The other points of entry have the advantage of virtually no foot traffic , and certainly no unexpected traffic like that near the car park.

There are some assumptions underlying your view of the staged break in that I question:

1) That Rudy Guede was acting as a sensible person would. Was he high? Does he have a history of sensible behavior?

2) That Rudy Guede was very afraid of being caught. He had been caught on multiple occasions. Did anything bad ever happen to him when he got caught?

The very fact that he had been caught multiple times should tell you that he is not the most sensible and cautious burglar in the world.

 

[NancyS]

It makes no sense to choose a point where someone could exit the car park at any time. The 10 minutes is your time and hardly respects the climb. The demo video by the expert climber had the advantage of window bars to grip and no need to remove glass to enter. By your scenario a pedestrian hearing the window smash exiting the car park could have been crossed the street to the gate and watched Rudy pick glass out of the sill at about 8:50. While he is rummaging in the room and sitting on the toilet police could have even been called. There arrival would could have coincided with his attack on Meredith. The other points of entry have the advantage of virtually no foot traffic , and certainly no unexpected traffic like that near the car park.

So Guede isn't a very good burglar - lots of burglars are fairly inept and the risk of getting caught is often part of the excitement. Thankfully due to the Pro-Rudy prosecution, he should be getting lots more practice when he's released next year.

And if it is a silly place to choose as your access in a burglary, it is also a silly place to choose for staging - and the risks of being discovered with a body in the house are far greater than the risks of Guede being caught throwing a rock and being able to run away and hide

 

[acbytesla]

It makes no sense to choose a point where someone could exit the car park at any time. The 10 minutes is your time and hardly respects the climb. The demo video by the expert climber had the advantage of window bars to grip and no need to remove glass to enter. By your scenario a pedestrian hearing the window smash exiting the car park could have been crossed the street to the gate and watched Rudy pick glass out of the sill at about 8:50. While he is rummaging in the room and sitting on the toilet police could have even been called. There arrival would could have coincided with his attack on Meredith. The other points of entry have the advantage of virtually no foot traffic , and certainly no unexpected traffic like that near the car park.

It took 10 seconds, not 10 minutes. My guess is that Rudy broke the window and waited 5 or 10 minutes to see if there was a reaction...no..then it is safe to climb the wall and get inside. Breaking into that cottage was easy, it's as Bill said, it's not rocket science. Seriously, you can't be this dense. Getting in through that window would have been very very easy for an athlete like Rudy. Surely, you can concede that.

 

[HumanityBlues]

Does someone have a picture of the lawyer's office that Rudy stole the laptop from? I'm sure similar ridiculous arguments could also be made about the lawyer's office that was burglarized.

 

[Briars]

So Guede isn't a very good burglar - lots of burglars are fairly inept and the risk of getting caught is often part of the excitement. Thankfully due to the Pro-Rudy prosecution, he should be getting lots more practice when he's released next year.

And if it is a silly place to choose as your access in a burglary, it is also a silly place to choose for staging - and the risks of being discovered with a body in the house are far greater than the risks of Guede being caught throwing a rock and being able to run away and hide

The risks of staging sometime in the night are not the same as smashing a window during the dinner hour 8:45 with foot traffic The staging involved breaking the window from the inside with the shutters closed to the noise. The risk of not staging sometime in the night meant someone let Guede in with a key so the defendants had no choice. The choice of bedrooms excluded Amanda's or Meredith's for obvious reasons.

 

[Briars]

No one has demonstrated how anyone could get in through the broken broken glass opening without leaving a fibre or speck of dirt anywhere.The only clue was Amanda's DNA mixed with the victim's blood. I'm not the dense one here.

 

[Skind]

The risks of staging sometime in the night are not the same as smashing a window during the dinner hour 8:45 with foot traffic The staging involved breaking the window from the inside with the shutters closed to the noise. The risk of not staging sometime in the night meant someone let Guede in with a key so the defendants had no choice. The choice of bedrooms excluded Amanda's or Meredith's for obvious reasons.

Irrelevant.

The risks of smashing a window at 8:45 with imaginary foot traffic can be mitigated by smashing the window and then hiding in any one of the numerous hiding spot available to see if any one comes.

 

[Skind]

No one has demonstrated how anyone could get in through the broken broken glass opening without leaving a fibre or speck of dirt anywhere.The only clue was Amanda's DNA mixed with the victim's blood. I'm not the dense one here.

No one has demonstrated that a proficient and sufficient search was made.

 

[Briars]

It seems that when convenient there is much traffic of cars and people there but when not convenient there aren't a lot of people.

If the risk was high then there must have been people around. If there were people around why didn't any of them hear the scream, see the three running or remembering the kids coming down from the plaza and going back up?



He said 10 seconds. While I too like the balcony better, it doesn't really matter because we didn't choose it.

Do you think that no one would notice the rock breaking glass if it were staged? Why didn't Nara hear that if she could hear running feet?

Why didn't the kids just break the balcony window that went into the kitchen?

The shutters were closed when the glass was broken from the inside. Nara heard the scream just earlier. She only paid attention and heard the running because she was at the window at that point listening after being startled by the scream.

 

[Briars]

No one has demonstrated that a proficient and sufficient search was made.

Sure they did,there was no evidence inside Filomena!s room outside of the mixed trace. The vegetation was undisturbed outside, no marks on the wall and no glass.

 

[Bill Williams]

Sure they did,there was no evidence inside Filomena!s room outside of the mixed trace. The vegetation was undisturbed outside, no marks on the wall and no glass.

It is true that you assert this.

The question was a different one: what is the evidence what you assert is true?

Be a good man.

 

[Briars]

Irrelevant.

The risks of smashing a window at 8:45 with imaginary foot traffic can be mitigated by smashing the window and then hiding in any one of the numerous hiding spot available to see if any one comes.

Hiding outside now for 10 minutes after tossing the rock. He still had to climb and pull out pieces of glass and get in without injury. Again visible against the white wall by someone leaving the car park. With the throw and wait time then the climb and glass removal it would be about 9. He still would need time to search Filomena's room and use the toilet. Meredith was home already.

 

[Bill Williams]

The shutters were closed when the glass was broken from the inside. Nara heard the scream just earlier. She only paid attention and heard the running because she was at the window at that point listening after being startled by the scream.

Once again this is something you assert, citing nothing as proof. Most notably what counters your assertion is that even the new prosecutor, Crini, says time of death could be before 10 pm. It's no wonder you limit yourself to guilt-sounding assertions without providing an overall theory of this crime.

 

[Bill Williams]

Hiding outside now for 10 minutes after tossing the rock. He still had to climb and pull out pieces of glass and get in without injury. Again visible against the white wall by someone leaving the car park. With the throw and wait time then the climb and glass removal it would be about 9. He still would need time to search Filomena's room and use the toilet. Meredith was home already.

Whoever has said he ever "searched" Filomena's room? It was an entry point, not the object of the aborted burglary. He probably went straight to Laura's bathroom.

 

[Skind]

Hiding outside now for 10 minutes after tossing the rock. He still had to climb and pull out pieces of glass and get in without injury. Again visible against the white wall by someone leaving the car park. With the throw and wait time then the climb and glass removal it would be about 9. He still would need time to search Filomena's room and use the toilet. Meredith was home already.

Someone leaving the car park wouldn't be facing the house to see him.

 

[Bill Williams]

It makes no sense to choose a point where someone could exit the car park at any time. The 10 minutes is your time and hardly respects the climb. The demo video by the expert climber had the advantage of window bars to grip and no need to remove glass to enter. By your scenario a pedestrian hearing the window smash exiting the car park could have been crossed the street to the gate and watched Rudy pick glass out of the sill at about 8:50. While he is rummaging in the room and sitting on the toilet police could have even been called. There arrival would could have coincided with his attack on Meredith. The other points of entry have the advantage of virtually no foot traffic , and certainly no unexpected traffic like that near the car park.

The upper window bars are actually a hindrance to the climb we saw on Channel 5. You obviously have not watched the whole piece.