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How To Use Bitcoin – The Most Important Creation In The History Of Man

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Beelzebuddy said:
That may be the case, but they probably shouldn't be describing it as "up to three days," then.
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I don't know about that. My methods were to sign up for a number of the exchanges long in advance of any possible need for them, and to get the highest trusted/verified level in place.

Belz... said:
Aw, come on. Make a bet. You can pay us in BTC when you lose. :wink:
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And you can't pay him in BTC when he wins.

This is a bad deal because you'd like to pay with a crap currency, something like USD, while you'd like him to pay you with a valuable thing, like BTC.

Good luck with that!
 
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wrs said:
Lines on charts just demonstrate price trends which are subject to change. It is really stupid to be bullish in a declining trend and vice versa. So understanding the trend is key to making money in the market. Right now, the short term trend here is down and the lines just provide guides for when the trend changes or where inflection points may be. That is how one trades a market.

I am not trading this one because there isn't any way to get profits out once you think you have them. It's interesting to watch and since I am currently sidelining with the regular markets, I am doing this to kill time.
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You have just confirmed my guess that you believe in your own ability to predict the future. There is a JREF prize for psychic abilities, go for it!!!

By the way: the 'declining trend', the 'inflection points', the 'short term trend' that you speak about, these are all just fantasies.

Please don't attempt to offer instruction to people on "That is how one trades a market" based on psychic mumbo jumbo such as 'technical anlysis'.
 
Originally Posted by ideogram
Okay. I was under the impression you and mhaze agreed. Now it appears you believe bitcoin is best used as an investment, while mhaze believes bitcoin should be used for spending. These are not the same thing, do you agree?


psionl0 said:
We agree that the amount of uncritical thinking in this thread is unbelievable but our take on bitcoin is not identical (though mhaze spends more time on other bitcoin forums than I do).

For me there is not much value in buying bitcoins just so I can transfer them to someone else. I can think of some exceptions but they are not relevant to me right now.
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Wrong, suppose it was stock in a railroad, and some people were arguing it was only an investment, the railroad should not actually run cars and trains. That would be frikking nuts!

The best way to increase bitcoin value would be to increase the base of users and the infrastructure base which supports bitcoin transactions. This is where venture capital is headed on bitcoin. It would be essentially 'dumb money' that looked at, and acted on bitcoin as a speculative investment.

And people in the bitcoin community who have been saying this when the value was $1, when the value was $10, when the value was $100, and now when the value is around $1000 are not going to change what they are saying, because what they have been saying is the bedrock of the current valuations...

DUH!!!!!
 
mhaze said:
Wrong, suppose it was stock in a railroad, and some people were arguing it was only an investment, the railroad should not actually run cars and trains. That would be frikking nuts!

The best way to increase bitcoin value would be to increase the base of users and the infrastructure base which supports bitcoin transactions. This is where venture capital is headed on bitcoin. It would be essentially 'dumb money' that looked at, and acted on bitcoin as a speculative investment.

And people in the bitcoin community who have been saying this when the value was $1, when the value was $10, when the value was $100, and now when the value is around $1000 are not going to change what they are saying, because what they have been saying is the bedrock of the current valuations...

DUH!!!!!
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Why would I, as a seller, accept something that a) might drop in value by 50% in the space of a few hours and b) can't be readily exchanged for real-world money?
 
As a side note, I have generally read that technical analysis fails empirical verification. Sometimes it looks like it is useful in inefficient and small markets, but I don't know if this market qualifies.

Over 5,000 popular technical trading rules are not consistently profitable in the 49 country indices that comprise the Morgan Stanley Capital Index once data snooping bias is accounted for. Each market has some rules that are profitable when considered in isolation but these profits are not statistically significant after data snooping bias adjustment. There is some evidence that technical trading rules perform better in emerging markets than developed markets, which is consistent with the finding of previous studies that these markets are less efficient, but this result is not strong. While we cannot rule out the possibility that these trading rules compliment other market timing techniques or that trading rules we do not test are profitable, we do show that over 5,000 trading rules do not add value beyond what may be expected by chance when used in isolation during the time period we consider.
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Linky.
 
mhaze said:
And you can't pay him in BTC when he wins.
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Well I was kidding, actually, but I would've paid him in actual, real money. :rolleyes:

My point is that people who are so certain that BTC will either collapse real real soon or take off real real soon should make predictions so that they stop moving those goalposts.
 
mhaze said:
You have just confirmed my guess that you believe in your own ability to predict the future. There is a JREF prize for psychic abilities, go for it!!!

By the way: the 'declining trend', the 'inflection points', the 'short term trend' that you speak about, these are all just fantasies.

Please don't attempt to offer instruction to people on "That is how one trades a market" based on psychic mumbo jumbo such as 'technical anlysis'.
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It's obvious you are upset and agitated by this catastrophic loss of confidence in the bitcon. However, it's just like any bubble or ponzi when the truth is discovered. The real problem is that even the earlier winners can't get money for their coins much less the most recent suckers that put money in up at $1200. It's nothing but hotel california for your money where the bitcon is concerned.

The charts tell the story and they don't lie, you may be angry about it, but those charts will be watched by traders who will simply turn and go with the trend which is down. Apparently you haven't been reading the trading boards and other places where the bitcon speculation was rife. They are desperate for new money on monday but what fool will throw good money into this conflagration. It's an ugly, ugly story for bitbugs now with defaults and trading halts. Here is the chart, still being adhered to since I first posted it. Get used to it because it looks like sub $500 by monday unless a miracle happens.

Course none of this means a thing to me, it's just a way to kill time.
 

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$686 now. The Chinese market has been selling hard; that seemed to be what drove the drop to $550 last night and I suspect we'll see more of the same tonight, that is, a sharp downward move in the next few hours followed by some recovery in the morning hours (US).

Not that I'd put any money on it...

ETA: Just for chuckles though, I'll place a phantom buy limit order for five BTC at $600 and a sell limit order for the same five BTC at $700. Maybe in the morning I'll have made a phantom $500.
 
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mhaze said:
Wrong, suppose it was stock in a railroad, and some people were arguing it was only an investment, the railroad should not actually run cars and trains. That would be frikking nuts!
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Maybe this post would have been a better one to quote and comment on.

Originally Posted by psionl0
Like I said before, there are no "ortas" about bitcoin. It's all about how the market treats it.

Right now, the best use of bitcoin seems to be as a long term investment. Circumstances could change rapidly though and its ease of transferability might become a bigger consideration.

Sure, bitcoin has the potential to be much more and it will probably have a big impact on the way we view currencies and transactions in the future but these things take time. ATM its value as a currency is not quite mainstream yet. Be patient.

When it comes to investing in railways (or whatever), most investors are more interested in the price of their shares and the size of their dividends than where the tracks are laid or how many trains they run. It shouldn't be like this but the (public) company system places a barrier between the owners and the managers.

If I knew that a company was involved in environmentally destructive practices I would as a matter of conscience avoid investing in that company but information like that can be hard to come by (and I have no control over where my Superannuation company invests my money). How do you know that the eggs you buy really are "free range"? There is a lot of fraud in this business.

mhaze said:
The best way to increase bitcoin value would be to increase the base of users and the infrastructure base which supports bitcoin transactions. This is where venture capital is headed on bitcoin. It would be essentially 'dumb money' that looked at, and acted on bitcoin as a speculative investment.
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Yes, the more people who use bitcoin as a currency, the more bitcoins become worth and the greater the value of my holdings.

However, I am not going to talk up the use of bitcoin as a currency just to improve my bottom line. I prefer the freedom to call it as I see it - as it is currently and where it is headed in the future. If there are problems or potential problems with bitcoin then I want to have the freedom to acknowledge that. If there are idiots on this thread screaming "doomsday" then I prefer to have the freedom to point out that their arguments are not necessarily based on sound critical thinking ;)

I am not a salesperson.
 
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jhunter1163 said:
$686 now. The Chinese market has been selling hard; that seemed to be what drove the drop to $550 last night and I suspect we'll see more of the same tonight, that is, a sharp downward move in the next few hours followed by some recovery in the morning hours (US).

Not that I'd put any money on it...

ETA: Just for chuckles though, I'll place a phantom buy limit order for five BTC at $600 and a sell limit order for the same five BTC at $700. Maybe in the morning I'll have made a phantom $500.
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another possible triangle failure worth 300 points.....
 

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jhunter1163 said:
ETA: Just for chuckles though, I'll place a phantom buy limit order for five BTC at $600 and a sell limit order for the same five BTC at $700. Maybe in the morning I'll have made a phantom $500.
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That's $3000 of your hard-earned cash that you will be trusting the bitcoin exchange with.
 
wrs said:
It's obvious you are upset and agitated by this catastrophic loss of confidence in the bitcon.....
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I'm stopping your post at that point, as you've made up yet another thing. I've repeatedly indicated how foolish I thought chasing short term deviations were, and I've repeatedly explained the general lengths of time over which I think investments are plausible.

psionl0 said:
....
Right now, the best use of bitcoin seems to be as a long term investment. Circumstances could change rapidly though and its ease of transferability might become a bigger consideration.

Sure, bitcoin has the potential to be much more and it will probably have a big impact on the way we view currencies and transactions in the future but these things take time. ATM its value as a currency is not quite mainstream yet. Be patient. ....
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In this respect we could certainly traceback and comment that long term bitcoin investers (say using cap gains terms, >1 year being 'long term') have UNIFORMLY made out pretty darn well.

Period.

As for weird day trading and mystical chart readers, I hope they lose every last dime. Of course that won't stop mystical wanna be chart readers, that only want to talk about their chart reading but don't even belly up to the bar and do it.
 
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mhaze said:
In this respect we could certainly traceback and comment that long term bitcoin investers (say using cap gains terms, >1 year being 'long term') have UNIFORMLY made out pretty darn well.

Period.
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Interestingly, you could also say that about many Ponzi schemes. That is not a very strong argument for Bitcoin.
 
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