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How To Use Bitcoin – The Most Important Creation In The History Of Man

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wrs said:
If the whales established their positions at $5 or less, this is something they can easily manage. Price moves at the margin but some of these trades are decent volume that are driving it down. Most of the green candles are low volume. I am watching the bid stack and can see the games being played to move the price higher on thin volume. The heavy selling washes all that out. Anyway, the whale has been whittled down to 470 at 1010 and they have moved it back up to 1020 for now. The next couple of selling waves will take out 1010 and then it's down to the whale at 1000 with 338 bid.
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All you see are numbers. Who is bidding these numbers or even if it is the same people doing so is just a story you have concocted.
 
psionl0 said:
All you see are numbers. Who is bidding these numbers or even if it is the same people doing so is just a story you have concocted.
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I am calling the whale the source of those huge bids. They can buy against their existing stash, it's collateral. I don't know what margin looks like on this exchange but if they were in at $5, they are loaded and can easily do that. In fact, no one with real money would be doing that.
 
Still trying to figure out the technical aspects of this.

I've read that the processing of the blockchain is done by miners, who get paid an ever decreasing amount of bitcoins. Also, there is a limit of 21 million coins.

My natural question is what happens when this limit is reached, and when they are projected to reach it. But I haven't read anything that goes that far.
 
wrs said:
I am calling the whale the source of those huge bids. They can buy against their existing stash, it's collateral. I don't know what margin looks like on this exchange but if they were in at $5, they are loaded and can easily do that. In fact, no one with real money would be doing that.
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If the "whale" (and we only have your word for it that it is the same person who "bought in" at $5) wanted to make a bid for 5 BTC at $1200 each he would still have to put $6000 cash in his trading account. If he had previously sold 5 BTC for $1100 each then he would need to find another $500 to "pump the price up".
 
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psionl0 said:
If the "whale" (and we only have your word for it that it is the same person who "bought in" at $5) wanted to make a bid for 5 BTC at $1200 each he would still have to put $6000 cash in his trading account. If he had previously sold 5 BTC for $1100 each then he would need to find another $500 to "pump the price up".
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Hardly, you don't understand margin. If the whale has an account of 10,000 BTC he purchased at $5, he has right now $10m in collateral. He can buy up to quadruple his account value on a day basis and double on long term. That is what margin does for you. Course if it drops, he has to sell to get his margin levels back down. Plenty of room for pumping it up.

ETA: That is how it works in a margin account for stocks but as I said, I don't know how the margin works on Mt. Gox.
 
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psionl0 said:
But that doesn't stop you telling us how it works anyway. :rolleyes:
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I told you how it works for a stock account. I would think that there is plenty of margin on Mt. Gox given the price volatility.
 
wrs said:
I would think that there is plenty of margin on Mt. Gox given the price volatility.
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Margin trading is basically trading with borrowed money. Whether the credit comes from the brokerage firm or a third party, it is still your risk (unless you stiff the lender).
 
Tsukasa Buddha said:
Still trying to figure out the technical aspects of this.

I've read that the processing of the blockchain is done by miners, who get paid an ever decreasing amount of bitcoins. Also, there is a limit of 21 million coins.

My natural question is what happens when this limit is reached, and when they are projected to reach it. But I haven't read anything that goes that far.
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People who make bitcoin transfers offer a small "transaction fee" so that the bitcoin miners will confirm the transaction.

Whenever a miner "wins" a block, it gets not only the new bitcoins in that block (currently 25 BTC) but also the total of all the transaction fees in that block - which can range from a very small fraction of a bitcoin to several BTC. Here is a typical block.

By 2140 there will be no new bitcoins being generated but assuming that bitcoin is still viable then, the transaction fees alone should be worth several thousands of dollars per block.
 
psionl0 said:
....the suggestion that a small group of "bitwhales" are manipulating the price through artificial bids at these exchanges, that is just ignorant speculation. They would have to keep adding their own money to the exchanges to "pump up" the price and - unless they can predict when bitcoin owners are about to get nervous better than the psychics ......
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You are looking and talking to the psychics of jref.

wrs said:
Hardly, you don't understand margin. If the whale has an account of 10,000 BTC he purchased at $5, he has right now $10m in collateral. He can buy up to quadruple his account value on a day basis and double on long term. That is what margin does for you. Course if it drops, he has to sell to get his margin levels back down. Plenty of room for pumping it up.

ETA: That is how it works in a margin account for stocks but as I said, I don't know how the margin works on Mt. Gox.
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There is no margin account on MtGox. Did not keep you from dreaming it up.

psionl0 said:
If the "whale" (and we only have your word for it that it is the same person who "bought in" at $5) wanted to make a bid for 5 BTC at $1200 each he would still have to put $6000 cash in his trading account. If he had previously sold 5 BTC for $1100 each then he would need to find another $500 to "pump the price up".
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I suppose he could go to the blockchain and try to prove his claims. Of course he won't do that, that would be work.

Wrs, you need to relax, take a deep breath, and go for a walk and get your mind off this stuff. This is a day in the life of bitcoin just like any other. MtGox reports 1047-1224-870 average 1049 for the lasts 24 hours. No grand scheme, no amazing feats by whales or rats. Just an average day.
 
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wrs said:
Now there is a whale with a bid for 821 at $1010. We just had another 500 sold in one minute which ate through that shock absorber at 1023 and into the one at 1016. The next big drop should bounce at 1010 unless they pull that bid. Where are you seeing the 9xx quotes?
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I was watching it here:

http://www.preev.com/

I understand this is compiled across multiple exchanges. And you called it; 1,010 as I write, but we know that won't last long.
 
wrs said:
Hardly, you don't understand margin. If the whale has an account of 10,000 BTC he purchased at $5, he has right now $10m in collateral. He can buy up to quadruple his account value on a day basis and double on long term. That is what margin does for you. Course if it drops, he has to sell to get his margin levels back down. Plenty of room for pumping it up.

ETA: That is how it works in a margin account for stocks but as I said, I don't know how the margin works on Mt. Gox.
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there is no margin on BTC in general is there? if so, I misunderstood. the only place I've seen the ability to use leverage is on the BTC-E MT4
system.

edit at a max of 3:1 which compared to minimum 100x and max 500x on Forex, is pretty lame as leverage goes
 
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wrs said:
I told you how it works for a stock account. I would think that there is plenty of margin on Mt. Gox given the price volatility.
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volatility is from a lack of liquidity usually, margin use would tend to increase liquidity wouldn't it? except during crashes / margin calls obviously.
 
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Belz... said:
Not that I necessarily agree with Wrs but, how can you make this claim ?
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is it not true? there are some people offering independent margin "workarounds" but I didn't think margin/leverage accounts had been a feature of BTC trading much thus far.

there are a few independents though https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=trade+bitcoin+on+leverage&pws=0&hl=en&num=10

and this http://bit4x.com/ which allows you to trade normal forex pairs and commodities paying with your Bitcoins at up to 500x leverage LOL!! now we're talking..:)

with regards price action, from a technical perspective todays action is going to be quite important IMO, as the primary trendline intersects the $1000 mark.

decision.jpg


if this upchannel is going to fail it could well be here, but trend is still clearly upwards at this point
 
Belz... said:
I see. My old browser can't display the graph. :D
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Try http://bitcoinwisdom.com/. Your browser might still be unable to display the graph but it will not be displaying something more informative than http://bitcoin.clarkmoody.com/.

Belz... said:
Wait. Your argument that we're wrong about what we claim is that some people are wrong about something completely different ?

You're new to this skepticism thing, right ?
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:confused: I have no idea what you are on about here.
 
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