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How To Use Bitcoin – The Most Important Creation In The History Of Man

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jhunter1163 said:
False dichotomy. The Chinese central bank action depressed prices; the Bitwhales bid them back up in order to milk more suckers buying on the dip. Simple, really.
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Except that initial reports of the Chi action were wrong, but resulted in the price drop and when correct reports came out, the market went back.

So you have that reality to contend with, and please now interject some totally unsubstantiated bitwhale fantasy market manipulation into the mix.

Note that I'm not even opposed to bitwhale or jrat price manipulation. I'm just trying to point out TOTALLY UNSUBSTANTIATED comments by you and some others.

So I have brought in the evidence of sufficient cause for the action and reaction that occurred.

Do you have .... anything....? Anything at all...?

Maybe just a ***feeling*** that the bitwhales did it?

LOL....
 
ideogram said:
But if the Chinese government can cause the price of bitcoin to drop, my evaluation of bitcoin as an investment would depend on my evaluation of the future actions of the Chinese government, is that true?
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Curiously, it seems those relatively ignorant about Bitcoin that talk about things such as evaluating bitcoin as an investment. While those more familiar are really oriented toward it's transactional use. I guess how I'd respond to that would be to evaluate it as an investment, get some thing like fifty bucks worth of coin and engage in a few transactions.
 
Belz... said:
I think he means that the very act of posting the link is likely the cause of this recent hiccup. After all, BTC is really that volatile.
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Well, that's an interesting theory for sure. That the initial posting of incorrect readings of the simplified mandarin caused the drop. I believe the timeline follows that idea.

Not going to spend a lot of time worrying about it, though, just trying to get some of this fantasyland stuff to go away.
 
ideogram said:
My interpretation of the claim is that the policy statement is pushing the value of BTC down, while the bitwhales are trying to push it up.
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Makes sense, they ran it up when the bank said it was OK a couple weeks ago. It's going back to $150, dropping like a stone right now.
 

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mhaze said:
Curiously, it seems those relatively ignorant about Bitcoin that talk about things such as evaluating bitcoin as an investment. While those more familiar are really oriented toward it's transactional use. I guess how I'd respond to that would be to evaluate it as an investment, get some thing like fifty bucks worth of coin and engage in a few transactions.
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I don't understand. Should I try to evaluate bitcoin as an investment? Or should I mainly use it for transactions?
 
mhaze said:
Except that initial reports of the Chi action were wrong, but resulted in the price drop and when correct reports came out, the market went back.

So you have that reality to contend with, and please now interject some totally unsubstantiated bitwhale fantasy market manipulation into the mix.

Note that I'm not even opposed to bitwhale or jrat price manipulation. I'm just trying to point out TOTALLY UNSUBSTANTIATED comments by you and some others.

So I have brought in the evidence of sufficient cause for the action and reaction that occurred.

Do you have .... anything....? Anything at all...?

Maybe just a ***feeling*** that the bitwhales did it?

LOL....
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News is always the excuse for the drop. Been watching this for years, the players know when the news is coming most of the time, course in this market probably not so much.
 
Belz... said:
When do you expect them to hit 150$ this time ? You've been saying that for a while, now.
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Belz, I can't put a time on it. Price and time should be related so it should drop as fast as it rose but that isn't a certainty. It should happen by the end of the year but that isn't a prediction. Look at the chart of silver in 1980 and in 2011. Silver is basically back now to where it ran from in 2011 but it's more real and a more liquid market than bitcoin.

The bitwhales are doing a good job with the bid stack. There are bids for over 100 at 1017 and 1023 right now so they are definitely going to fight hard at $1000. The behavior below $1000 is like an elevator with a cable cut. The bitwhales have to really drop their bids and let it sell off before risking much in the drops below $1000.
 
TeapotCavalry said:
Source/evidence?

And, what's your definition of a Bitwhale?
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You don't need that sort of stuff on this forum anymore. "Sounds good to me" is the new standard of proof. If you want to appear to be a really "critical thinker" then say something meaningless like "they are hardly likely to admit it".

BTW the "bitwhales" are the small group of traders who tricked the whole world into believing in a false price for bitcoin.
 
jhunter1163 said:
@ wrs:

Is the bottom scale on those graphs the size of the transaction? Am I interpreting that right that there was a "sale" of 500+ BTC at 1,000? If so, that would seem to far exceed the exchanges' limits for withdrawals.
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It is the total of BTC traded in that time interval. The red or green price candle is the range of prices in the interval. That last chart is a 1m interval. So in the two deep red candles, about 1000 BTC were traded. It bounced at 1023 where there were about 300 BTC in the bid stack at the time. So the selling ran into a shock absorber and a bounce was the result on low volume. Supposedly this exchange just matches buy and sell orders, there doesn't seem to be $1m behind those trades. In the stock market if you trade on margin you can buy and sell multiple times in the same day.
 
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wrs said:
It is the total of BTC traded in that time interval. The red or green price candle is the range of prices in the interval. That last chart is a 1m interval. So in the two deep red candles, about 1000 BTC were traded. It bounced at 1023 where there were about 300 BTC in the bid stack at the time. So the selling ran into a shock absorber and a bounce was the result on low volume.
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OK, got it. Thanks for clearing that up.

ETA: $991 now. They're doing their best to defend $1,000.

ETA2: $976, about three minutes later.
 
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jhunter1163 said:
OK, got it. Thanks for clearing that up.

ETA: $991 now. They're doing their best to defend $1,000.

ETA2: $976, about three minutes later.
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Now there is a whale with a bid for 821 at $1010. We just had another 500 sold in one minute which ate through that shock absorber at 1023 and into the one at 1016. The next big drop should bounce at 1010 unless they pull that bid. Where are you seeing the 9xx quotes?
 
wrs said:
Makes sense, they ran it up when the bank said it was OK a couple weeks ago. It's going back to $150, dropping like a stone right now.
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We are not seeing anything that hasn't happened many times in the price history of bitcoin. There is nothing in the bitcoin charts that suggests that this time it is the "end" and not just another example of the price volatility. Of course, more rapid price rises tend to be coupled with bigger than usual falls but there is no indication that there is a long term decline in the average price. http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#rg60ztgSzm1g10zm2g25zv

As for the suggestion that a small group of "bitwhales" are manipulating the price through artificial bids at these exchanges, that is just ignorant speculation. They would have to keep adding their own money to the exchanges to "pump up" the price and - unless they can predict when bitcoin owners are about to get nervous better than the psychics - the best they would be able to do is get their own money back (assuming that other bitcoin sellers don't beat them to the punch). If they were that good at reading the market they would not need to risk their own cash to profit from it.

At the end of the day, the attacks on bitcoin exchanges by the authorities (such as the seizure of the MtGox dwolla account) and the resultant difficulty that the exchanges are having on their day to day business is having little effect on bitcoin prices. Why? Because most bitcoins are not held at these exchanges. They are held by people who can afford to be patient enough to see out these shenanigans.

Bitcoin exchanges are like the "napster" of bitcoin trading - big, centralized and an easy target for authorities. You can be sure that a "gnutella" like system will be set up that is as hard to target as bitcoin transactions themselves.
 
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whale getting eaten alive That 466 at 1010 was 821 before. Once that gets eaten, who knows.
 

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psionl0 said:
As for the suggestion that a small group of "bitwhales" are manipulating the price through artificial bids at these exchanges, that is just ignorant speculation. They would have to keep adding their own money to the exchanges to "pump up" the price and - unless they can predict when bitcoin owners are about to get nervous better than the psychics - the best they would be able to do is get their own money back (assuming that other bitcoin sellers don't beat them to the punch). If they were that good at reading the market they would not need to risk their own cash to profit from it.
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If the whales established their positions at $5 or less, this is something they can easily manage. Price moves at the margin but some of these trades are decent volume that are driving it down. Most of the green candles are low volume. I am watching the bid stack and can see the games being played to move the price higher on thin volume. The heavy selling washes all that out. Anyway, the whale has been whittled down to 470 at 1010 and they have moved it back up to 1020 for now. The next couple of selling waves will take out 1010 and then it's down to the whale at 1000 with 338 bid.
 
Belz... said:
Could you give a link to where you get those graphs, Wrs ?
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right here, enjoy. This is pretty good free live data, you can't get this for free with commodities or stocks. I give bitcon credit for that.
 
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