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How To Use Bitcoin – The Most Important Creation In The History Of Man

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wrs said:
What does this chart say to you?
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That after all your talk about how you'd never put a dime into Bitcoin, you are asking what a chart means that is subscription based, and for which the service only accepts payment in Bitcoin?

There's something really, really comical about that...
 
jhunter1163 said:
Well, let's look at it critically, then. According to all sources, there are significant settlement delays in BTC (weeks), and limits have been imposed on the amount and frequency of cash withdrawals.

Why might this be?...
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AFAIR, there have always been such limits and delays - with some variations - on the major btc trading plaatforms. When trading increased 10x, for a while things slowed down a lot.

So you need to start with actual facts on which to do your critical thinking.
Otherwise your critical thinking is no different than a person of old saying it was obvious the sun revolved around the earth. And of course the earth was flat.

How's Yeti been doing lately?
 
kevsta said:
I dont really understand how / why this can be? these are not retail Forex style brokers who provide liquidity by trading with or against you, somebody earlier said they simply match customer buy order to sell orders, and presumably the customer has to have the money/coin to make the trade?
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Would you have $10m trapped in a place like MtGox? I think what has happened is that there were people with large accounts earlier in the year that were able to run up the price somehow. This clearly caused Mt Gox to have a liquidity problem according to the notices on limits posted back in March. That problem has never gone away because the price remains elevated well beyond the ability of Mt Gox to cash people out. It is a ponzi scheme because the high price can only be cashed out at the rate new money comes in. Mt Gox has admitted as much in it's postings and actions, they just won't explicitly say it. Originally they had enough to cash out all the transactions. If there were $500,000 in Mt Gox and 100,000 BTC priced at $5.00 when they got started then it was evenly matched. You would expect that price increases are coming about because more money is being added to the accounts that purchase the asset. However, if the market is cornered, then the big account holders simply do not sell and the price can escalate at the margin. There is no ability for the large account holders to get out and they simply liquidate slowly at the high price, it's a typical stock market scam. Once the big players are out, the stock or commodity crashes. I have never seen it this bad though.
 
mhaze said:
That after all your talk about how you'd never put a dime into Bitcoin, you are asking what a chart means that is subscription based, and for which the service only accepts payment in Bitcoin?

There's something really, really comical about that...
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That is a free chart that streams off this site
 
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wrs said:
Thanks for this. Similar to Mt. Gox. The trade volume is much lower there so I would bet there are a lot less deposits there.
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Np. And yes, the trade volume is most likely considerably lower there.

wrs said:
Can you transfer BTC from one platform to another without cashing out? Seems to me that is transferring a liability if so.
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Yes, you can.


wrs said:
When they spoke out a couple weeks ago seeming to be in favor of it, it soared.
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The French central bank article says nothing new or surprising, IMO. It's always good to be cautious. But those reasons China's authorities/ministries cite for restricting the use of bitcoins by banks aren't really convincing. Who are they trying to protect?
Money laundering, as in concealing the source of the money? That's supposedly one of the strengths of bitcoin. Anonymity. Threat to financial stability? Well yeah, to the banking system's financial stability. Protecting the status of the renminbi as the statutory currency? Sure. Seems they are getting defensive, supposedly because crypto-currency is posing an alternative to the current financial state. Water is indeed wet.
 
wrs said:
That is a free chart that streams off this site
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Oh. So you acknowledge the free service you quote is from a company that only accepts payment in bitcoin? You malign the bitcoin economy, but accept gratefully it's charity?

Thanks.

ROFL....

jhunter1163 said:
It seems like the Bitwhales are trying to prop it up around $1,000. It remains to be seen if they will be able to do so.
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Wait, you mean they are buying at a perceived LOW?

Oh, that's BAD....EVIL...

more ROFL....
 
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mhaze said:
Oh. So you acknowledge the free service you quote is from a company that only accepts payment in bitcoin? You malign the bitcoin economy, but accept gratefully it's charity?

Thanks.

ROFL....
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huh? :boggled:
 
mhaze said:
Oh. So you acknowledge the free service you quote is from a company that only accepts payment in bitcoin? You malign the bitcoin economy, but accept gratefully it's charity?
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This is one of the weakest ad homs/tu quoques I've seen in a long time, but I guess I'm not that surprised. The data in his chart doesn't change if he gets it from bitcoincharts.com, from a stream that pulls from RTBTC, or from manually going through every piece of the blockchain. Where he gets the data from is completely irrelevant to this discussion as long as the data itself is accurate, which RTBTC presumably is.

That resolved -- I notice you have nothing substantive to say about the actual problems that have been exposed with the current state of Bitcoin trading... problems which were mentioned in this thread on more than one occasion, I might add.
 
wrs said:
Would you have $10m trapped in a place like MtGox?..... I have never seen it this bad though.
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The fact that we do not see Lock Nessie on the surface when we look proves that she's hiding in the deep, therefore QED.

REALLY?
 
mhaze said:
Oh. So you acknowledge the free service you quote is from a company that only accepts payment in bitcoin? You malign the bitcoin economy, but accept gratefully it's charity?

Thanks.

ROFL....

Wait, you mean they are buying at a perceived LOW?

Oh, that's BAD....EVIL...

more ROFL....
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If this thing is as anonymous as it says, then one person can hold several accounts and just trade between them. The price drops are coming when some other account really tries to liquidate bitcoins. There are actual buyers that are getting trapped in these games.

I have been watching that clarkmoody stream for several days now and following the bid stack. This is classic price gaming. The price spikes on small buys and drops on real volume. Every now and then it rises on a large buy spike but I think that is mainly to elevate the price and pull suckers in. Look what happened to the well constructed "recovery". Double top and fail. This thing is looking worse and worse from a technical perspective every hour.

I called the top at 1242 a week ago. ICBW, TWT.
 
wrs said:
If this thing is as anonymous as it says, then one person can hold several accounts and just trade between them.
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This is what actually interests me too, if anyone more knowledgeable could shine some light on.

You make two accounts and two wallets and do buy-sell transactions between those accounts. Let's say it's something like 100 BTC. How would that affect the market?
 
remirol said:
....
That resolved -- I notice you have nothing substantive to say about the actual problems that have been exposed with the current state of Bitcoin trading... problems which were mentioned in this thread on more than one occasion, I might add.
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If it's a "weak ad hom", hey, whatever. It's charity from those EVIL BITCOINERS! You just gotta hate them while you take their free charts! LOL...

As I see it, you compared stock trading with bitcoin trading, found btc trading to not rank by some chosen measures, then jumped to some unsubstantiated conclusions and started hallucinating.

It'd be wiser to just look at the business deal: MtGox says trade limits X, Y, and payout in Z days. Do I want to do business with them yes/no? They or I don't care about your opinions or your experience with stock trading. This is what it is. Plus no one said you or I have to deal with an exchange, we could just buy bitcoins or sell bitcoins with another person directly.

It may be hard to understand that or accept it, but that's no reason for the wild accusations you've been sprouting.
 
TeapotCavalry said:
This is what actually interests me too, if anyone more knowledgeable could shine some light on.

You make two accounts and two wallets and do buy-sell transactions between those accounts. Let's say it's something like 100 BTC. How would that affect the market?
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LOL we could just try it and see.

Like we could post on some of the bitcoin forums some of this wild stuff said here and ask people to do 100 btc juggles. You'd probably see hundreds of them shortly.
 
jhunter1163 said:
wrs has explained it perfectly well; well enough that I, a relative novice, see the flaws in the system. I've read enough of your posts here and elsewhere to know that you aren't stupid; I can only conclude that you don't want to see.
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Preaching to the converted is hardly a "perfect" explanation. At the end of the day, all wrs has is suppositions and made-up facts.

In 6 months time we shall see if wrs had any basis for what he is talking about or if he is just another in a long line of nay-sayers who predicted the demise of bitcoin prematurely.
 
In somewhat related news, I've been exploring the surprisingly rocky terrain of actually selling a bitcoin. Not for a number with a $ next to it on someone else's site, to be eventually turned into more bitcoins, but for actual cash money. You know, these greenbacks everyone keeps telling me are going to be worthless once BTC takes off.

Mtgox isn't paying out right now, due to "backorders," and has a several month waiting period to boot.

Kraken claims it's paying out, but -oops!- turns out it's not yet licensed in "my area," which I shall nastily assume means "Earth."

BTC-E is probably paying immediately, given how much I had to dig to find mention of the 1.5% (min $150.00) "processing fee" for each such transaction.

Bitstamp is still in the process of verifying my account, and has been for several days. No word yet on hidden fee, if any.


Of course, these are only some of the big players. There's dozens of little bastards who claim to use PayPal, and FSM knows which of them may be expected to be honest vs reversing the PayPal transactions after the fact, which I've been lead to believe is A Thing.

[ETA] Of course, I'd appreciate any suggestions people have for exchanges/markets/whathaveyou that do actually run a clean shop. Keep in mind I'm trying to get money for bitcoins, not bitcoins for money. Experience in the latter is no indication of integrity during the former.
 
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wrs said:
.... Double top and fail. This thing is looking worse and worse from a technical perspective every hour.

I called the top at 1242 a week ago. ICBW, TWT.
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A chartist, eh? A reader of stocks by the ouiji board method. That explains it all.

JREF should really take "technical analysis" on as a myth driven scam.
 
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