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Continuation Part Six: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

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I think they thought the phone records were suspicious and they called in Sollecito. He was the one who quickly said she went out. She learned he had bailed then she buckled also fairly quickly So the pair confirmed what they had started to suspect.

No, Raffaele did NOT quickly say she went out. He admitted that he did not know if she could have went somewhere while he was sleeping. And later after thinking about it became obvious to him that she didn't have a key, so even that was impossible. Why do you say such deliberately false things?
 
No, Raffaele did NOT quickly say she went out. He admitted that he did not know if she could have went somewhere while he was sleeping. And later after thinking about it became obvious to him that she didn't have a key, so even that was impossible. Why do you say such deliberately false things?

It is nothing more then a game to him.
 
Her phone and calls became very interesting after RS said she went out. Police would then look at her last calls or texts. This was prior to any personal story from Donnino

In what way interesting?
 
In what way interesting?

The alibi that they both stayed in for the evening has been. just been dissolved by Sollecito. It was then a priority to check her phone and see if there were any texts or calls around that time she was out.
 
It is nothing more then a game to him.

I can't help but wonder if Briars believes any of this nonsense. I can't even see why anyone would be the least bit suspicious of them today, let alone believe that the evidence rises to "beyond a reasonable doubt". About the only piece of evidence that has ever been troubling to me is the bra clasp and only mildly so.

I can see them being "suspects" at the beginning, but never defendants. Amanda and Raffaele should have been dropped as suspects when they arrested Rudy Guede or at least when they discovered the shoe prints weren't Raffaele.

The fact that this farce cost two young people 4 years of their lives is a travesty. And the fact that the mind reading nonsense that Briars spouts is shameful. It's time for people to start using their head for more then a counter weight.
 
I can't help but wonder if Briars believes any of this nonsense. I can't even see why anyone would be the least bit suspicious of them today, let alone believe that the evidence rises to "beyond a reasonable doubt". About the only piece of evidence that has ever been troubling to me is the bra clasp and only mildly so.

I can see them being "suspects" at the beginning, but never defendants. Amanda and Raffaele should have been dropped as suspects when they arrested Rudy Guede or at least when they discovered the shoe prints weren't Raffaele.

The fact that this farce cost two young people 4 years of their lives is a travesty. And the fact that the mind reading nonsense that Briars spouts is shameful. It's time for people to start using their head for more then a counter weight.
You might want to stock up on comfort food before January 15
 
Your point might actually carry weight if Donnino had suggested the trauma of the event had caused Amanda to forget details of being there BEFORE she named Lumumba.. She had already blurted out it was Patrick after learning RS had just withdrawn her alibi. She had already admitted meeting him in the piazza and returning to the cottage .

You aren't getting this exactly correct and though you may prefer the Italian the board is in English - this is Donnino.

This time remember it very well, is
just printed in my mind, there was a time
in which Miss Knox was asked why he does not
had gone to work and she said she had received

A message from Mr Patrick Lumumba in which Mr.
Patrick informed the ...

DEFENSE - CHAMBERS . Ghirga - This is ...

PRESIDENT - Yes, please , maybe you will not be usable
these . The change occurs in that moment and in
that consist of?

ANSWER - The change was right next to this
message , in the sense that the young lady said she did not have
Patrick replied to the message , when in fact she was shown the response message she had a true and own emotional shock . It's something that has stayed with me very
impressed because the first thing he did was to put
immediately hands over his ears , he made this gesture
shaking his head , hunching the shoulders , and
saying : "It's him! It's him ! It was him ! I can feel it , "and so
forth.
 
The alibi that they both stayed in for the evening has been. just been dissolved by Sollecito. It was then a priority to check her phone and see if there were any texts or calls around that time she was out.

Yes, I understand that the phone calls and texts would be interesting to the police if they suspected Amanda, but my point was that it was the police who initiated this Lumumba thing, I assumed not suspecting him before, though others on this thread have said they assume the police would have known Amanda worked at le Chic, and therefore knew about him. Whatever the truth of that, Amanda did not name Lumumba as such, she said who the name of the person who had texted was, which is different.
 
You might want to stock up on comfort food before January 15

Why, you think that others might share this opinion that mind reading takes the place of actual evidence?

Sad for everyone if that is true.
 
No, Raffaele did NOT quickly say she went out. He admitted that he did not know if she could have went somewhere while he was sleeping. And later after thinking about it became obvious to him that she didn't have a key, so even that was impossible. Why do you say such deliberately false things?

We really don't what he said.

The alibi that they both stayed in for the evening has been. just been dissolved by Sollecito. It was then a priority to check her phone and see if there were any texts or calls around that time she was out.

You don't think they checked the phone records by the third? Surely after they announced that all friend sand acquaintances were being interviewed they were checking phone logs or didn't they have the budget for that?
 
Yes, I understand that the phone calls and texts would be interesting to the police if they suspected Amanda, but my point was that it was the police who initiated this Lumumba thing, I assumed not suspecting him before, though others on this thread have said they assume the police would have known Amanda worked at le Chic, and therefore knew about him. Whatever the truth of that, Amanda did not name Lumumba as such, she said who the name of the person who had texted was, which is different.

Is it standard policy to arrest someone just because someone names them. Or do police usually investigate a claim before making an arrest? I say the police were totally at fault here. They suggested Patrick and pretty much forced Amanda to agree with them. Thy then proceeded to arrest Patrick before any investigation of him was made.
 
The alibi that they both stayed in for the evening has been. just been dissolved by Sollecito. It was then a priority to check her phone and see if there were any texts or calls around that time she was out.

Alibis are for suspects, not witnesses. Are you concerned that this and subsequent interviews of these suspects were not recorded as required by Italian law?
 
Briars said:
Stop posing questions like a grade 7 homework essay .

You mean stop posting questions that you can't or don't want to answer. No problem.

The larger issue is that Briars, Machiavelli, and the rest, simply try to chip around at the edges, but continually refuse to offer a comprehensive theory of the crime that handles, with integrity, all the elements which would have had to have been there to even suspect the pair.

By "suspect", I do not mean the normal notations a competent cop would put in his/her mind to recall later... meaning the 1,000,001 things which initially don't add up, are hard to place, but which you have to remember because later any one of them could be the key to unlocking this....

I think I've come to the point of thinking this is the kind of "suspicion" people like Grinder talk about....

But Briars talks as if he (Briars) is himself immune to cross-examination! He feels he has a right to simply assert things unchallenged! He feels he's immune to natural questions which naturally arise out of his, quite frankly, cockamamie opinions about things. For instance, a brief snippet audible from Knox behind Raffaele during a 112 call... for some reason this becomes the Rosetta Stone for Briars when Briars won't answer even the most basic follow-ups to his own "theories".

You put it well, Poppy1016. The key to understanding guilters as guilters, rather than simply as people who hold an opinion of guilt, is that not only do their "theories" not survive much scrutiny....

... the notable element of guilters is that they refuse to even address the issues raised.

With the possible exception of Machiavelli who engages in dietrology, with the claim that Knox could choose not to sleep, and therefore was (acc. to him) immune from the bad effects of no sleep! Or that Guede was Knox's pimp. Machiavelli, when pressed on those issues, either denies he ever said them, denies he ever implied that could be the case, denies that he said "it is possible that..."...

Briars, on the other hand, just doesn't even address the issue. Or, and here's the REAL hallmark of a guilter.... they simply make things up. The latest was this "sealed room" business... that Mereidth's room was sealed for those 47 days...

Poppy1016 said:
Are you aware that the clasp moved across the room durin the 47 days from when it was first seen? How did this occur in a "sealed" room?

Close on the heals of this is the guilter claim that it was "the defence" who delayed the recovery of the bra-clasp for 47 days. Yes, a few of them claim that. The obvious glitch in that "theory" is that until Nov 8, the two never even had lawyers..... so for the 1st six days that the Scientific Police kicked the bra-clasp across the floor, there wasn't even a defence to object much less manipulate things!

When pressed they simply invent things.... much like Massei did at the first trial. Briars has also not addressed Stefanoni's own admission, at trial and under oath, that she could neither confirm nor deny that she, herself, had been a source of contamination. All the while Briars, in the face of this, says, "Prove contamination."

It's whack-a-mole time....
 
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Briars said:
You might want to stock up on comfort food before January 15

Why, you think that others might share this opinion that mind reading takes the place of actual evidence?

Sad for everyone if that is true.

Either Briars has his dates wrong, or he's referring to Mingini's trial here. Machiavelli says that Jan 15 is the prelim, others say the prelim happened on Nov 22, and on Nov 22 Mignini was committed to trial starting on Jan 15.

We will see. I take it that Machiavelli now agrees he was mistaken, because he most certainly has not tried to (recently) "correct" the record.
 
Why did he write he had told a pack of lies because Amanda told him to and he didn't think of the implications.

According to Sollecito (p.57 Honor Bound) he had been confused about the dates and had asked to look at a calendar ("Don't touch the calendar!" he was told). Napoleoni rounded on him: "What did you do?..You need to tell us. You don't know what that cow, that whore, got up to!"
He was denied a lawyer. He couldn't call his father. He was hearing Amanda screaming in Italian "Aiuto! Aiuto!". The rounds of questioning began again.

p.57
They wanted me to sign a statement they had prepared. The first part was a big mash up of the events of October 31 and November 1, most of which, I have to admit, was the result of my own confusion.
...
By the time I read what the police had prepared, it was deep into the night, I was exhausted and scared, and I could no longer think straight. Absurd as it sounds, the statement struck me as accurate up to this point. I simply missed the fact that I was - from the investigators' point of view - cutting Amanda loose for the evening and depriving her of the only alibi she had.
I objected to just one paragraph. It was a logical continuation of what the police already had me saying, but I missed the connection; I just knew this part was not right. It read, "In my last statement I told you a lot of crap because she [Amanda] talked me into her version of events, and I didn't think of the inconsistencies."
I told my interrogators this part needed to be changed, but they wouldn't back down. Instead, they unexpectedly became friendlier and said I shouldn't worry about this paragraph. It was just something they needed and it wouldn't affect my position one way or the other. Essentially, they were asking me to trust them. Part of me still wanted to. I wanted to believe this was a world in which the police did their jobs responsibly. And part of me just couldn't wait for the hellish night to be over.
At three thirty, after five hours of relentless interrogation, I signed.
 
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