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How To Use Bitcoin – The Most Important Creation In The History Of Man

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mhaze said:
No, I didn't address your other arguments. I was hoping you'd see they made no sense and move on, but apparently not. You see, what is wrong with these is not that you don't think they are correct and logical - but that these decisions are made in real time by millions of people who vote with their pocketbook.

Look at it this way - I've just spent like, 30 seconds to order Hulu+ with bitcoin, maybe less than that, it was more like Amazon one click, and I run into two laborious long paragraphs by you lecturing me why bitcoin is so hard and slow and difficult to use. If you were me would you take those paragraphs seriously?
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Well, I would appreciate it you did address my arguments instead of dismissing them out of hand. From later posts, you confirm my suspicions that you didn't buy Hulu Plus from Hulu itself. You bought it from a third-party vendor. That's fine. It's not buying it directly from the vendor, though. It's great that there's a market for this kind of thing (apparently cheap, since you bought a year for $11.00) at least.

I'll prefer to pay for things using my defunct, worthless "fiat" currency, thank you very much. When I see major vendors and retailers accepting Bitcoin (and not through some hush-hush wink-wink "send me money and I'll send you the goods, honest" markeplace), then I may look at it differently.
 
I am reminded of the thread on gold, where people kept saying it was overvalued and couldn't keep it up and it did for years, and then it didn't. But at least with gold you have something that is fundamentally valuable.

It just seems that the core original group might be blinded by their own ideology to know when to start to cash out.
 
ponderingturtle said:
I am reminded of the thread on gold, where people kept saying it was overvalued and couldn't keep it up and it did for years, and then it didn't. But at least with gold you have something that is fundamentally valuable.

It just seems that the core original group might be blinded by their own ideology to know when to start to cash out.
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The core original group isn't the right group to be looking at here -- they got BTC for either free (mining) or pennies on the dollar (pissing around in the early years), so they really have no pressing _need_ to cash out; all they can lose is the opportunity to make money. That's almost certainly why those Top 100 are sitting there watching right now -- whether they sell at $1200 or $700, they'll make a boatload.

It's the people who are currently buying in on the bubble that have the real problem. Look at midnight Nov 29 -- a huge cashout happened of over 12k bitcoins and dropped the price by $100-$150. And yet people were buying back in. It's their money -- but it's also a big gamble that it will both a) increase and hold value over time, and b) if/when the crash comes, they'll be able to get back out for more than they paid in.

Historical evidence indicates that people who play this game end up broke; the only winners are the ones who initiate the crash (one of those Bitwhales) or are lucky and get in on the leading edge before suddenly there are no Bitcoin buyers anymore. (And the ones who bought for pennies and just watched the bubble rise and pop passively, of course -- which is a pretty solid tidbit of advice for most circumstances.)
 
Vermonter said:
It's going to be fun when someone with a few million USD in Bitcoins goes to cash out.
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I speculated on this a bit earlier in the thread...

remirol said:
Something occurs to me though... and sure enough, that's exactly what I thought:

https://www.mtgox.com/press_release_20130620.html

https://www.mtgox.com/press_release_20130704.html

Is it even possible right now to cash out Bitcoins to USD with BTC at this level? Where would the money come from for such a transaction, I wonder? I'll bet that Mt. Gox doesn't have anywhere NEAR the USD required to cover Tippit's "friend's" holdings if he were to try to cash all $30m out at once. They were barely able to cover $1m back in July.

This commodity is currently based on nothing and, most importantly, has nothing backing it to guarantee its value. What's going to happen the first time someone can't get their money back out of Bitcoin? :D
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I don't recall receiving any responses then, either. :D
 
psionl0 said:
Did you click on the "send money" button?

When I search the blockchain for address 1hrA12CWGQPFTtk1jL2s7ujQPe5bofT4v, I get no transactions recorded (awaiting confirmation?)
https://blockchain.info/address/1hrA12CWGQPFTtk1jL2s7ujQPe5bofT4v.

BTW is 19LmQApGB5j3XRBXUTGSvGYz9Xv1rBmPZ4 yours? At 81 BTC it is a nice healthy balance at these prices. :) https://blockchain.info/address/19LmQApGB5j3XRBXUTGSvGYz9Xv1rBmPZ4
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Still no .0009x transactions recorded for either of those, though I strongly suspect that the recipient has to actually confirm receipt before anything happens, as you mention above. However, I find it amusing that someone who is pretending that you can buy tons of stuff with Bitcoin is actually doing nothing himself other than speculating with it -- only 7 "sent" transactions between 4/9 and 11/29 this year (the account's lifetime), and only 1 in the last three months.

Also puts the lie to ordering Hulu (though we knew that) -- the only transaction this month on that blockchain was yesterday for 9 BTC, which at current prices is staggeringly more than eleven bucks. I can't be arsed to go find the date on the post about ordering pizza and check it against that 7/2 transaction, but we've already established that it was inherently a fiction anyway (ordering for USD through an intermediary rather than directly with Bitcoin), so it's really moot.

I will admit the technological aspect is definitely fascinating (unsurprising, coming from me) but... simultaneously, not fascinating enough for me to spend any real money on. As I've mentioned before, if it dropped back down far enough (hint: double digits, max) I'd consider throwing 5k into it just as play money; now that it's being targeted by speculators, it should bounce around like a rubber ball, at least enough for me to get my 5k back out at some point so I can play around on house money. But then, that's really the way to play with anything like this -- get in cheap, get even fast, then try to win.
 
remirol said:
Still no .0009x transactions [ ........ ] really moot.
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We are only assuming that 19LmQApGB5j3XRBXUTGSvGYz9Xv1rBmPZ4 belongs to mhaze and even if it did, it's quite likely that he would have used a different wallet again for his Hulu/pizza transactions. I suppose you could eventually track those individual transactions through that particular wallet's transaction history but why bother? This obsession sounds a little too personal for my liking.

remirol said:
.....(prices)....
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You are not saying anything that couldn't have said any time during the previous 2 years. Nobody knows what is happening price wise.

My own prediction that the price could hit $1000 by early next year is off by several months. Stop trying to be a fortune teller and just observe. You sound like the guy who predicted 19 of the last 2 recessions.
 
psionl0 said:
We are only assuming that 19LmQApGB5j3XRBXUTGSvGYz9Xv1rBmPZ4 belongs to mhaze and even if it did, it's quite likely that he would have used a different wallet again for his Hulu/pizza transactions.
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Maintaining multiple separate wallets sounds to me like one of those "complicating things for the sake of complication" mistakes people make. Not impossible, granted.

I suppose you could eventually track those individual transactions through that particular wallet's transaction history but why bother? This obsession sounds a little too personal for my liking.
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You're the person who dug up the blockchain info -- I just followed your links and your assumptions. mhaze has made a number of substantive claims about bitcoin that were related to his personal use; and, as usual, I refuse to believe any personal anecdotes of his without independent third-party confirmation. You made it convenient for me ("click this link") to check that wallet's history, so I did, and it shows exactly what I expected -- behavior totally inconsistent with those claims. I am merely making that information available to the thread so that posters are aware of what they're dealing with.

I have mentioned this previously, but there are certain posters for whom I will open a window and check should they tell me the sky is blue. He is one.

You are not saying anything that couldn't have said any time during the previous 2 years. Nobody knows what is happening price wise.
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Listen to what you just said, and ask yourself why so many people seem to interpret that last sentence as "Don't play in this sandbox with money you need to keep".
 
remirol said:
You're the person who dug up the blockchain info -- I just followed your links and your assumptions.
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So you basically just echoed my post. The difference is that my motivation was merely idle curiosity. Maybe mhaze only wanted to show how it can be done but didn't actually want to spend that $1 (or am I the only person who is that mean? ;)).

remirol said:
Listen to what you just said, and ask yourself why so many people seem to interpret that last sentence as "Don't play in this sandbox with money you need to keep".
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Have I ever said otherwise? The odds are fantastic if you have money to spare for investment/insurance/saving/speculation/gambling (and you have a bit of nous when it comes to storing your bitcoin data) but nothing is ever good enough to risk your last meal on.
 
Belz... said:
Maybe I misinterpreted what you meant by fundamental, then. I view water as having fundamental value, because you can't live without it. But gold ?
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http://goldresource.net/modern-uses-of-gold

Gold in Phones: Gold in connectors, switches and relay contacts allows phones to remain free of corrosion and are an important part of modern cell phones. An average of 33 gold-plated contacts are present in phones which allows rapid dispersion of heat and prevents tarnishing. U.S. Geological Survey estimates that a single mobile device contains an average of 0.034 grams of gold – which translates to $1.83 of gold per phone under today’s prices. The number of cell phones sold annually has surpassed 1 billion, which has naturally opened up added incentives to recycle gold out of older cell phones.

Gold in Computers: Gold can be found inside desktops and laptops in the form of edge connectors employed to mount microprocessor and memory chips onto the motherboard as well as plug-and-socket connectors used to attach cables. While silver and copper are better conductors, gold’s resistance to corrosion makes it the preferred choice.

Gold in Electronic Devices: Gold is present in almost all small electronic devices because of low voltages and currents are easily interrupted by corrosion or tarnish. So that means anything from GPS systems to tablets to calculators to alarm clocks contain gold. Even large appliances such as microwaves, washing machines, and TVs contain a hint of gold.
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So you can certainly live without it (unlike water), but gold does have objective uses.
 
I'd say that the modern uses of gold are far more useful than in earlier eras. Sure, it looks pretty, but I'd rather have a corrosion-resistant connector in my electronics than 'avin' some shiny bitz.
 
Puppycow said:
Question for Bitcoin skeptics: How high would the price of Bitcoin have to get before you admit that you are wrong and Bitcoin really is The Most Important Creation In The History Of Man?

:boxedin:
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Infinite.

My evaluation of Bitcoin is not based on the current price.
 
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