An Atheist's View of the Alpha Course

Filippo Lippi said:
Why are you attending when you are an atheist? Are you deliberately wasting their time?
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I don't play golf but that doesn't necessarily mean that I mustn't show an interest.


I didn't feel any holy spirit coming into me at the last session. One woman burst into song but she seems to be a bit of a narcissist
 
SusanB-M1 said:
For a start, if you believe that a person who might or might not have been historical and who, if he was, died about 2,000 years ago is still floating around somewhere trying to reach all the people, than you need to consider the lack of any rationality or logic to that thought. Keep your mind clear and detached. Watch the others - can you really believe that they are having some mythical spirit 'entering their souls' or doing anything else?

The only way you will 'experience' anything at all is if you think it and convince yourself; and that can only happen in your own brain.
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Just a side note here.
I've done this several times. For me, it is very easy.
However, I am highly compartmental in my ways of thinking, so it is very easy for me to fully go into a buddhist, christian, druid, jewish, and many other views emerssively.

I used to do that a lot when I was hopping around sampling different flavors.

It's like being a method actor; you really have to be able to be this thing fully, and still be able to pull out at some point later when the role is done.
 
JaysonR

Interesting - I couldn't have silenced the knowledge that no god was having anything to do with what I would or would not be experiencing. Even when I believed in some sort of God/force, my common sense/scepticism never was able to go right into belief but always retained an impartiality, I think.
Could you in fact do so?
 
JaysonR said:
Just a side note here.
I've done this several times. For me, it is very easy.
However, I am highly compartmental in my ways of thinking, so it is very easy for me to fully go into a buddhist, christian, druid, jewish, and many other views emerssively.

I used to do that a lot when I was hopping around sampling different flavors.

It's like being a method actor; you really have to be able to be this thing fully, and still be able to pull out at some point later when the role is done.
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But it is said by people that attend the 'Holy Spirit' day that they feel the spirit entering them as if its an electric shock or a great warmth. Then they feel overwhelmed by Christ and at that point, they know they have become a true Christian and their lives change for the better from then onwards
 
mstricky said:
But it is said by people that attend the 'Holy Spirit' day that they feel the spirit entering them as if its an electric shock or a great warmth. Then they feel overwhelmed by Christ and at that point, they know they have become a true Christian and their lives change for the better from then onwards
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As an atheist, how would you explain their experiences?
 
Mojo said:
As an atheist, how would you explain your experiences?
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I am not immune to hysteria. Atheism doesn't protect me. It might recast religion and give me a resistance to the psychology, but that doesn't mean I don't get crazy when my football team scores, or cry hearing some lonesome tune.
 
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As a 'Christian' I was curious as to what the Alpha course offered. I would say it emphasises on faith rather than religion. The church connected to the course seems to be what I would call a reformed church. There are no strict religious rules and the vicar doesn't wear the collar and dresses casually when conducting a service. The people attending are all nice/warm hearted. There are four of us that are atheists.
In the last session we were asked what we thought of the church and every comment made was derogatory. Then we were asked what we thought of Jesus and every comment was complimentary.
It sort of displayed that the church is cold and unwelcoming but Jesus is warm etc. there are several in the group that are relgious but want to reconnect but even they weren't nice about the church (any church that is)
I think there are three sessions to go but nothing has changed my atheism. I do like the people there very much and I can see how people would be swayed into joining the church after the course but I suspect they are the lonely/unsure type and have a need to belong.
The leaders/vicar have been very patient answering my questions, I suspect I've been the worst one. Some questions they couldn't answer and sort of said its all about having faith and friendship with Jesus.
I view religion as a good moral teaching and a discipline but only the good parts of the bible, that is. But the way it has been taught over the centuries has been far too strict. I myself as a child was terrified that God was watching me all the time and told them this. The vicar said that's why the church is viewed as cold etc and that, that is not what faith is, that is religion
So all in all I have enjoyed it but will not continue any connection with the church once the course is finished. I still do not believe there's a God and I believe that Jesus is Greek mythology
 
mstricky

I strongly recommend that you now look out your nearest Humanist Group and go and see what they are doing. You will find atheists!
 
SusanB-M1 said:
mstricky

I strongly recommend that you now look out your nearest Humanist Group and go and see what they are doing. You will find atheists!
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I fully intend to have a humanist funeral and have already instructed my family as such.
I'm happy with the friends I already have some Christian/Jewish/Atheist :)
 
mstricky said:
But it is said by people that attend the 'Holy Spirit' day that they feel the spirit entering them as if its an electric shock or a great warmth. Then they feel overwhelmed by Christ and at that point, they know they have become a true Christian and their lives change for the better from then onwards
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Yes, that is how our neurology functions.

Here's a section from the neurological editorial which periodically discusses the updates of neurotheological studies:

Where God and Science Meet Vol. 2, The neurology of religious experience
Chapter 7, Religious Conversion, Spiritual Transformation, and the Neurology of Meaning Making.
Chapter Authors: Raymond F Paloutzian, Erica L. Swenson, and Patrick McNamara

Pg. 159, 160
Although not universally true, many sudden conversions are associated with heightened feeling and states of arousal (Paloutzian, 1996). Prioar to conversion, a person may pray and meditate. Prayer and meditation have been linked to the following positive physiological and psychological states (Newberg, Alavi et al., 2001; Newberg & Newberg, 2005): (a) The person may feel that his or her stress, worries, and anxiety have dissipated. This relaxed state is indicated by lower levels of the stress hormone cortisol in urine and plasma during meditation (Sudsuang, Chentanez, & Veluvan, 1991). (b) The person is likely to feel less pain and fear than under normal conditions, while breathing slower and having sensations of joy and euphoria (Newberg & Newberg, 2005). These positive feelings are associated with the release of beta-endorphins during meditation (Kiss, Kocsis, Csaki, Corcs, & Halasz, 1997). Beta-endorphins are opiods produced in the hypothalamus and distributed to the brain's sub-cortical areas. (c) The sensations of happiness and euphoria may be further enhanced by the overall elevation in serotonin during meditation, as shown by the increased breakdown products of serotonin in urine after meditation (Walton, Pugh, Gelderloos, & Macrae, 1995). Higher levels of serotonin provide feelings of happiness and have a modulatory effect on dompamine, which also leads to feelings of euphoria (Newberg & Newberg, 2005). (d) The person may experience the sensation of progressively deeper relaxation. This is linked to the increased parasympathetic nervous system activity during meditation, which leads to lower heart and respiratory rate (Newberg & Newberg, 2005). (e) Sensitivity to pain and activity in the central nervous system may be reduced thanks to the neurohormone melatonin (Shaji & Kulkarni, 1998). Melatonin is produced in increased levels during meditation (Tooley, Armstrong, Norman, & Sali, 2000).
A meaning system analysis says that such experiences are important not merely because of their unusual phenomenology or because they happen to be pleasurable, but because they are interpreted and experienced within the person's meaning system. They are appraised and given new meaning (Park, 2005) and given the right circumstances can produce change in central elements of the person's meaning system sufficient to call it religious conversion of spiritual transformation (Paloutzian, 2005).
These positive effects may be enhanced when the potential convert is in a social context with religious adherents who are also praying and meditating (Paloutzian, Fikes, & Hutesbaut, 2002). It would make sense that experiencing a sense of euphoric happiness through prayer or meditation would make a person more likely to convert, especially when circumstances dictate a new religious or spiritual attribution for the experience (Spilka, Shaver, & Kirkpatrick, 1985; Spilka et al., 2003). We hypothesize that the positive physiological experiences that a person has during meditation will make sudden conversion more likely. It seems, therefore, that neurological evidence may be consistent with well-known principles from social psychology that indicate that a change in belief may be a consequence of a change in behavior. In fact, in a classic text on relation between attitude, belief, and behavior change, it was observed that in the Old Testament (Hebrew Bible), "The rabbis are enjoined not to make their parishioners or converts believe in God before they are asked to pray, but to have them pray first so that belief will follow" (Zimbardo & Ebbesen, 1970, p. 13).
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In other words: transcendent and euphoric electrical warmth is par for the human neurological course when it comes to any following's conversion.

You could say this is how we convince our selves to switch our perspective earnestly; to bring it into visceral sense.
 
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