Is Not Knowing the Capital of Canada a Problem?

[Rat]

Not for nothing did ancient peoples conceive the ideas of hubris and nemesis.

But they were Greek, and therefore don't matter.

 

[truethat]

@truethat

There simply is no possible response to what you have just written. We don't have any point of contact on which a response might be based. But let me ask you this: if by some disaster, which heaven forbid, your country's influence in the world was reduced, would you then change your point of view about what it was necessary or desirable for an intelligent person to know? Would you become as subservient, as you now are arrogant, in your attitude? Not for nothing did ancient peoples conceive the ideas of hubris and nemesis.

See this is what I mean. It's construed as "arrogant" instead of "reality" whereas from my end Europeans are arrogant. Because they have a long "HISTORY" this is supposed to trump current importance in real life.

You push this snooty superiority crap that is hysterical.

I just posted the New York Times and this front page had stories about Iran, Syria, China, Pakistan etc etc etc.

If you talk to average Americans this is where their focus in now. I once told someone to take a map and flip it to a Pacific Central Map instead of using an Atlantic Central map which is based on the perpetuation of European importance in the world. It's really rather arbitrarily chosen.

Take a look at a Pacific Ocean Centered map

http://www.worldtradepress.net/wp-content/uploads/world_pacific.jpg

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Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Cuddles

What you will see is what is reflected in what is going on in the world today. The countries around the Pacific Ocean are the ones constantly in the news. America, China, Japan, India, Pakistan, the Middle East.

The countries losing relevance in the world are off to the left side of the Map. Basically Europe and the Countries of Africa.


Even though there are definitely influences from Europe in the world, it's importance is waning. History gives it a foothold that otherwise may have been slipped. Or did the purpose of forming the EU completely elude you??? No individual European country even comes close to world influence the way other countries do like China and the US.


So that's why I ask these questions. I find it amusing to see how many Europeans will tisk tisk tisk at Americans not knowing about Ottowa when they themselves are not up to speed on what the other countries in the world are all about.

It's just posturing. I know it may take you aback, but ask yourself the exact same question you asked me. Because I've been asking Europeans that for years.


If your country's influence in the world was reduced, would you then change your point of view about what it was necessary or desirable for an intelligent person to know?

Not dodging, but clarifying: matters in what way? I'm not sure anyone's said that they do or even should matter to them in directly influencing their day-to-day lives. If no one is making that claim (and I'm not) then there isn't really a question to dodge.

No even country policy etc. Something broad. It's funny because many Americans are familiar with Canada because of their health care plans etc and it's proximity. But what major thing is going on with Canada right now that you would expect Americans or Europeans to be concerned about.

Ex. This OP of this thread had reactions that were similar to Americans not knowing where Baghdad is?


Here is a National Power Index Ranking by Nations with predictions for the Future


Rank 2010 2020 2030 2040 2050 2060
1 United States United States China China China China
2 China China United States United States India India
3 India India India India United States United States
4 Japan Japan Japan Japan Brazil Brazil
5 Germany Germany Brazil Brazil Japan Japan


Top five.

Five to 10
Russia Russia Russia Russia Germany Germany
7 United Kingdom Brazil Germany Germany United Kingdom Pakistan
8 France United Kingdom United Kingdom United Kingdom Pakistan United Kingdom
9 Brazil France France France France France
10 Italy Indonesia Indonesia Pakistan Russia Nigeria



As you can see, France, Germany and the UK are scattered around it. But in general it's China, Japan, India. And as I showed earlier, the NY Times Paper has these countries all over the paper. So Americans are interested in the major players in the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Power_Index

 

[Craig B]

What you will see is what is reflected in what is going on in the world today. The countries around the Pacific Ocean are the ones constantly in the news. America, China, Japan, India, Pakistan, the Middle East.

The countries losing relevance in the world are off to the left side of the Map. Basically Europe and the Countries of Africa.

The Middle East is around the Pacific? India and Pakistan are around the Pacific? Let it be as you say. But if "America" is important because it is near the Pacific, then it behoves the inhabitants of that continent to know the name of the capital of Canada, doesn't it?

 

[Guybrush Threepwood]

America, China, Japan, India, Pakistan, the Middle East.

It's no use arguing guys, she's caught us snooty Europeans bang to rights. The key world issues of today are centred round the Pacific, and truethat would know. She was married to an Egyptian so probably spent her honeymoon on one of the many resorts on the Pacific coast of Egypt.
And who among us is not worried about the possible ramifications of the developing struggle for influence over Micronesia by Qatar and Jordan.

Games Set and Match to the Yanks I'm afraid.

 

[Rat]

No even country policy etc. Something broad. It's funny because many Americans are familiar with Canada because of their health care plans etc and it's proximity. But what major thing is going on with Canada right now that you would expect Americans or Europeans to be concerned about.

Ex. This OP of this thread had reactions that were similar to Americans not knowing where Baghdad is?

I'm surprised (though I shouldn't be) when someone not apparently stupid doesn't know the capital of Canada or roughly where Baghdad is, but that's not the same thing as looking down on them or 'snootiness. I would ask about it because I would want to know why what I assumed to be common knowledge actually isn't. I'm also unsure why not having a direct concern about something means that one should be completely ignorant of it. Why is it that a country like, say, Central African Republic means nothing to my life directly, and yet I can find it on a map and name its capital, and give a brief outline of its history? (Actually I get its capital mixed up with the Gambia's, but that's understandable.)

I guess different people are interested in different things, and some people may not care about geography or history, much like I don't much care about sport or "pop culture". But as I said some pages back, I can still give an outline of a lot of sports, and maybe name some major competitors, at least for sports that are internationally popular. Basically I don't think that something has to have a direct impact on one's life for it to be interesting, or at least interesting enough to know something about it.

 

[truethat]

The Middle East is around the Pacific? India and Pakistan are around the Pacific? Let it be as you say. But if "America" is important because it is near the Pacific, then it behoves the inhabitants of that continent to know the name of the capital of Canada, doesn't it?

Again, you will not answer the question. And this is why I chuckle a little.


I think its far more important and intellectually superior to be able to point out why a country has influence in the world than it is to toss off simple answers to questions that one can memorize looking at the map.

The reason no one has answered the question is because no one knows the answer. So get over yourself. LOL


When I say these countries are around the Pacific, I mean that if you look at the map from a different perspective instead of a Eurocentric perspective you get an entirely different version of the world.

Forward thinking countries and ideas are what draw American interest. It's one of the characteristics of the people here. We get over things very quickly.

Case in point, 911 would be considered "old news" here. Compared to say Cyprus with the Turkish invasion or Israel with Gaza.

I mean please, you live in the UK and you're going to tell me that the Scotts and the Irish and the Brits have all moved on passed crap that's been going on for decades.

America is forward thinking. In some ways this is a bad thing because when we trample across another country's rights and people we tend to let ourselves off the hook pretty quickly. Consider for example how many Americans can tell you the anniversary of the bombing of Hiroshima. Or how many Americans will act like slavery was "Ancient History." Actually I've heard that said many times here in the US. Slavery was "Ancient History get over it"

We are forward moving and drawn to countries that are big on development and forward thinking ideas.

I would argue that the most influential countries in the world to Americans are China, Japan, Germany, Sweden, India.

All of these countries are regularly on the verge of new technological development.

I would then argue that the other countries that Americans are more interested in are

Iraq, England, Egypt, Israel and Saudi, Mexico for political reasons.


Then I'd go for France, Italy, Brazil, the Islands and the West Indies for vacations or whatnot.

I would think if you asked the average American what sort of political influence France or Italy had in the world they'd say none and most would agree that France shouldn't be a voting member of the UN.


Americans love Australians just because. For some reason Australians are the coolest people on the plant to Americans. LOL and Australia can always be found on someone's bucket list. Canada is like a neighbor that's polite and never does anything rude. You might see them during a block party or at a hockey game but otherwise you just generally ignore them.

But this is all just speculation on my part. Thanks for reading.

 

[Rat]

Even though there are definitely influences from Europe in the world, it's importance is waning. History gives it a foothold that otherwise may have been slipped. Or did the purpose of forming the EU completely elude you??? No individual European country even comes close to world influence the way other countries do like China and the US.

In a sense, European countries don't actually want world influence. I realize you will take this to be sour grapes, but the idea of one nation influencing or exerting power over all other nations is the very essence of empire, something that I thought both we and you were glad is supposedly gone.

And the EU is a descendent of the EEC, whose purpose was to allow better trade and cooperation.

 

[Rat]

Again, you will not answer the question. And this is why I chuckle a little.

I think its far more important and intellectually superior to be able to point out why a country has influence in the world than it is to toss off simple answers to questions that one can memorize looking at the map.

The reason no one has answered the question is because no one knows the answer. So get over yourself. LOL.

Which question? If this one:

If your country's influence in the world was reduced, would you then change your point of view about what it was necessary or desirable for an intelligent person to know?

...then yes. If the one you asked earlier, as I said, it asks us to support a position that no one holds, so is unanswerable, other than with vague truisms, like "those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it" and the like.

 

[truethat]

In a sense, European countries don't actually want world influence. I realize you will take this to be sour grapes, but the idea of one nation influencing or exerting power over all other nations is the very essence of empire, something that I thought both we and you were glad is supposedly gone.

And the EU is a descendent of the EEC, whose purpose was to allow better trade and cooperation.

Sure, but here's what is interesting about "deciding that an empire" is a bad idea. Other countries don't seem to think so. This is what I mean about "forward thinking" and European "history thinking"

Sorry if this sounds patronizing, I'm just trying to word it clearly and I'm a bit tired.

So for example in your answer, the way you are evaluating the future is by looking at the past. This to me, IMO, is a very very common thing amount those Europeans who get so freaked out when Americans don't know XYZ. It's usually a sort of "knowing for the sake of knowing" bit of snobbery. There's this idea that we are trading in something crucial to the very nature of humanity for something of ease.

Ex. I often talk to parents who get angry because schools don't teach penmanship in classes any more. I find this curious and it's similar to what I mean about how these types of Europeans (certainly not all of them) come across to me.

When I talk to the parents about how teachers are focusing more on technology and that penmanship is fading as a necessity in school and even allowing kids to print is acceptable, I get the same typical snooty type of attitude.

What they usually go on about is how they themselves learned it in school and feel that it is important. So what they are doing is looking back at what they learned and deeming it superior to what is happening now.

That my friend is arrogance and hubris in a nutshell. LOL

Younger Americans are much more aware of what is going on in the far East than they are in Europe or Canada. If find this not, "lacking in knowledge" but a sign of the times.

 

[truethat]

Which question? If this one:

...then yes. If the one you asked earlier, as I said, it asks us to support a position that no one holds, so is unanswerable, other than with vague truisms, like "those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it" and the like.

Hah, you see what I mean.

 

[Meed]

truethat, what goes on in the rest of the world is relevant to US foreign policy and US foreign policy is relevant to any citizen of voting age. I realize not everyone has the time to study up as everyone has their own personal struggles and dramas to deal with. Also it doesn't help that such things are rarely covered by our popular media. One has to be motivated to learn about what's going on in the rest of the world, as an American, except for the occasional story that blows up such as the "Arab spring" the riots in London, the conflict in Syria, etc. But it's fallacious to suggest that we have no reason to care about such things.

 

[Madalch]

You're right that Quebec is a province and Quebec City is a city. Much like New York is a state and New York City is a city.

When I was in school, I was taught that Canadian cities, even if they share a name with a province, do not end in "City"- the capital of Quebec was Quebec, and the add "City" to the end was a dreadful Americanism that no Canadian should ever do.

And while Canadians do refer to their southern neighbor as "the US" or "the states", if the term "America" is used, everyone knows that it refers to the US, not "the entire western hemisphere".

 

[truethat]

truethat, what goes on in the rest of the world is relevant to US foreign policy and US foreign policy is relevant to any citizen of voting age. I realize not everyone has the time to study up as everyone has their own personal struggles and dramas to deal with. Also it doesn't help that such things are rarely covered by our popular media. One has to be motivated to learn about what's going on in the rest of the world, as an American, except for the occasional story that blows up such as the "Arab spring" the riots in London, the conflict in Syria, etc. But it's fallacious to suggest that we have no reason to care about such things.

Fantastic. So what's going on in Canada?

My point is, aside from a few novel details, it doesn't seem that too many others are very easily able to state anything about it either. LOL.

I'm not saying we have no reason to care about things, I'm saying just because we don't know what's going on in Canada doesn't mean we are uninformed about what is going on in the world. As you say, people are busy and have limited time, so they are naturally going to be interested in things that are going on that impact them.

The problem is IMO Europeans seem to think we ought to know about Europe because of it's history, as if this somehow trumps the importance of what is going on in Japan or China or India etc.

 

[truethat]

Just adding to the chorus. I have many friends in New York (City). I visit there every couple of months. I'm in the arts so a huge number of people I know over the last decade have migrated to New York or LA. And that's the way we generally say it in conversation. Unless there are other context cues surrounding it "New York" with no modifier generally refers to the city. It's the state that more often requires the modifier.

If a friend says:
"I'm going to New York this weekend to see a show." or
"I'm thinking of moving to New York." or
"The food here sucks and makes me miss New York pizza."

And on and on, it is always clear that the city is being talked about. In fact, I'm struggling to remember if my friends who are actually from there have EVER referred to it as "New York City" and I can't say I've ever heard that said.

So true. LOL This is why people who live "Upstate" get really peeved at NYers who have convinced the world that New York, means "the City."

 

[ddt]

What you will see is what is reflected in what is going on in the world today. The countries around the Pacific Ocean are the ones constantly in the news. America, China, Japan, India, Pakistan, the Middle East.

LOL. You post a map, and then claim that India, Pakistan and the Middle East (not a country!) are located on the Pacific. Yes, several other posters have made the point already, but it bears repeating.

I think its far more important and intellectually superior to be able to point out why a country has influence in the world than it is to toss off simple answers to questions that one can memorize looking at the map.

And you don't think that knowing a little bit about the biggest trading partner and one of only two neighboring countries might be expected?

For a while, my small country was the biggest empire in the world, at least in economic terms, with barely 2 million people. Its wealth depended on trade, and still does. The idea that you not only don't know, but aren't even interested in the outside world, is completely alien to me, and would also have been to the Dutch of the 17th Century whose live very much depended on knowing which way Danzig, London, the Cape or the Moluccas lie.

Forward thinking countries and ideas are what draw American interest. It's one of the characteristics of the people here. We get over things very quickly.

Yes, it only took 100 years from the abolishment of slavery to the abolishment of Jim Crow.

Case in point, 911 would be considered "old news" here.

That's why you still have the Patriot Act and we may all put off our shoes at the airport.

 

[truethat]

I know I know it's so fun to pretend I really really thought the Middle East was on the Pacific. I mean I obviously think that considering my ex is from Egypt and my husband is from Cyprus.

Par for the course instead of trying to just understand what I meant it's ***** and giggles to point out a mistake. Even though I already explained what I mean.

So since it must be explained again My point is, if you look at a Pacific Centered Map you get an entirely different version of the world than an Atlantic Centered Map. The reason we use an Atlantic Centered map is because of the Eurocentric way of looking at the world that is accepted as the reality.

But if you look at a Pacific Centered Map you get a real picture of what is going on in the world today.


I was not saying that the Middle East is in the Pacific.


And I also never said that I am not interested in what is going on in the outside world, I said Americans are interested in World Leaders and people that are moving forward.

What's really really really really funny and so so so typical of Europeans who freak out when I say this, is that they completely can't even HEAR or READ that we are interested in other parts which I have mentioned again and again.

China, Japan, India and the Middle East.

It's like if we're not interested in Europe, then we're not interested in the rest of the world.

Thank you for proving my point.

LOL

Not to freak you out even more, but take a look at the Peters Projection Map, because not only has Eurocentric thinking tried to force the world to be looked at from a European centered perspective with the Atlantic, it greatly exaggerated the size of it's own areas on the map.

http://cdn1.collective-evolution.com/assets/uploads/2013/07/Peters-Projection-World-Map.jpeg

Breach of rule 5 removed. Do not hotlink images from other sites without permission.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Cuddles

 

[ddt]

Even though there are definitely influences from Europe in the world, it's importance is waning. History gives it a foothold that otherwise may have been slipped. Or did the purpose of forming the EU completely elude you??? No individual European country even comes close to world influence the way other countries do like China and the US.

The purpose of forming the EU was definitely not to keep up influence in world politics. It's purpose was (a) tighter economic integration so (b) to stay competitive and keep up its level of wealth, and (c) no more war, which was one of the founding objectives of the European Coal and Steel Community.

European former powers as the UK, France and Germany will never again be superpowers, not even combined, on sheer account on population numbers. In the 1920s, the USA had already eclipsed them as an economic power, and only after 1941, it also assumed the role of political and military superpower. In that interwar period, Britain and France still held up their status as superpower, thought their economies didn't warrant that anymore.

And you can see exactly the same thing now with the USA: it holds up its status as military and political superpower, though its economy doesn't warrant that anymore. China has already become the economic power #1, and has hardly begun to flex its political or military muscle.

Etcetera. This cycle can be seen throughout history, with the Habsburg Empire, the French empire of Louis XIV or later that of Napoleon. See Paul Kennedy, "The Rise and Fall of the Great Powers" for the details.

 

[ddt]

I know I know it's so fun to pretend I really really thought the Middle East was on the Pacific. I mean I obviously think that considering my ex is from Egypt and my husband is from Cyprus.

You did say that. And really, why do you try to make out of this a Europe vs. USA thing? It was an American poster who said he was not interested in knowing the capital of Canada, and was chided for it by other American posters.

ETA: and here is a map with each country sized according to its GDP
. Europe is still pretty big!

 

[truethat]

Yeah I know, I was in Cyprus while it was first going down, it was all about unifying the Euro and all that jazz. Got it.

So hmmm. Let's see you want Americans to be interested in you sorting out your economy and settling your skirmishes.


And right, we're always told that we're not in the top spot any more. No sir ree bob. As if THIS is in any way upsetting to us. LOL

China has been number one for a long time. The point is, that our country has been here for less than 300 years, less than 250 years and we've completely eclipsed the rest of the world in that time.

It's mesmerizing really. And funny, compare to Canada, again we have a similar history size etc. There's just something amazing about how it went down. I personally think it has to do with size, climate and a push towards progress. But I think this is why the world is fascinated with the US. Not because we're some superior people.

You know what I'm interested in these days? Shanghai

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KgXBpemWSs


And what I'm pointing out is the typical snooty pants attitude that people have and like to harp on because a bunch of college kids didn't know the capital of Canada.

As if this proves something? Well all it proves to me is where the standards lie to that person. In the past.

 

[truethat]

You did say that. And really, why do you try to make out of this a Europe vs. USA thing? It was an American poster who said he was not interested in knowing the capital of Canada, and was chided for it by other American posters.

ETA: and here is a map with each country sized according to its GDP
. Europe is still pretty big!

Congratulations. You found a map that makes Europe big again. Do you feel better?

http://www.worldmapper.org/images/smallpng/169.png

Breach of rule 5 removed. Do not hotlink from other sites without permission.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Cuddles