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How To Use Bitcoin – The Most Important Creation In The History Of Man

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jhunter1163 said:
When the inevitable crash comes, I will refer to this post.

Tulips, land in Florida, dot-com stocks... irrational exuberance gonna exuberant.
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So, my buddy sold 2000(ish?) coins at $140 (a decision which he obviously regrets), which amounts to nearly what his initial investment was, so he is more or less playing with nearly all house money at this point. So if the crash does come, and it could, he will be devastated, but will not be much worse off than when he started. On the other hand, if bitcoin represents an actual paradigm shift in digital payments...
 
jhunter1163 said:
I think the biggest risk is that governments will crack down on it. And I think, given BTC's known use in illegal transactions, that such a crackdown is inevitable.
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It has KNOWN USE IN ILLEGAL TRANSACTIONS?

No...you don't say. You mean like US dollars, Euros, Argentinian pesos, the Chinese RenmanBi, the Singapore Dollar, the AUD, CND, the Rand...

HAHAHAHHAAHAHAHA!

remirol said:
....the most obvious of which would be for the existing banks/gubmint to co-opt Bitcoin's technical positives and innovations and simply fix its value to the USD; say, one Buckcoin == one hundred USD. Once it is chained to something that is a reliable store of value, it becomes no different than a credit card # is today -- except it's probably a lot harder to steal.
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This cannot be done. Of course, that does not mean you can't say it. But it indicates some fundamental misunderstandings. Given that you continue by asserting that the USD is a "reliable store of value" though, I guess it has an inherent logical inconsistency which is symmetrically coherent, maybe like the reverse of what is right? (hmm...Psion10 already said that...)

Kind of like looking in a mirror at the FunPalace, where everything in the mirror is distorted. Anyway, keep talking....that way you won't have to go figure out how to buy 12 months of Hulu+ for 10.96 using bitcoin.
 
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mhaze said:
No...you don't say. You mean like US dollars, Euros, Argentinian pesos, the Chinese RenmanBi, the Singapore Dollar, the AUD, CND, the Rand...
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Those currencies are issued by governments. Bitcoins are not. If the US Department of Justice decided to crack down on Bitcoin, there wouldn't be a damn thing any BTC user could do about it. Also, I think it'll be interesting to see what happens when the capital gains being made from Bitcoin reach a level where the Internal Revenue Service decides it's worthwhile to start pursuing people for them.
 
The anonymity of bitcoin is probably insecure. I heard an ex NSA employee talking about how the TOR network could be snooped on. What they do is to have a very broad spectrum of traffic to examine, and from that information they can identify all kinds of specific information.
 
jhunter1163 said:
Those currencies are issued by governments. Bitcoins are not. If the US Department of Justice decided to crack down on Bitcoin, there wouldn't be a damn thing any BTC user could do about it. Also, I think it'll be interesting to see what happens when the capital gains being made from Bitcoin reach a level where the Internal Revenue Service decides it's worthwhile to start pursuing people for them.
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DOJ??? I don't even think you know what department would be 'cracking down on bitcoin'. FYI the US Government officials of the relevant agencies go and give talks at conferences on bitcoin. Members of the Bitcoin Foundation go and talk with people in Washington DC in various agencies.

Capital gains? Pursuing? What in the world are you talking about ? Let me guess - you presuppose that people owning bitcoin are not paying appropriate taxes in whatever countries they reside.

Are you still in the habit of beating your wife?

(for the clueless...this is a classic example of mis framing and presumption in logic)

Anders Lindman said:
The anonymity of bitcoin is probably insecure. I heard an ex NSA employee talking about how the TOR network could be snooped on. What they do is to have a very broad spectrum of traffic to examine, and from that information they can identify all kinds of specific information.
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More vague groundless assertions based on wrong premises.

Bitcoin is correctly described as pseudo-anonymous. The blockchain cointains public key records, to/from, amounts, dates. No private keys. Therefore, the block chain cannot track to individuals.

Tor has nothing to do with bitcoin. It is a peer to peer network system.

Look, the easiest way to stop being naive and making wrong assumptions is just to get a wallet, get some bitcoin and do a couple trades. Maybe something like coinbase.com for $50. No big deal. Then head over to coingig.com and buy a couple things just for fun.
 
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mhaze said:
HAHHAHAHAHHA!
So last time you blurted out about pizza, you found you were wrong shortly after.
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Stepping in here for a second to address this particular falsehood. Papa Johns does NOT take Bitcoins. There are third-party sites (such as PizzaForCoins) that act as a middleman. You pay them BTC, they order the pizza and pay for it in USD.

-ETA- Forgot a )
 
jhunter1163 said:
Those currencies are issued by governments. Bitcoins are not. If the US Department of Justice decided to crack down on Bitcoin, there wouldn't be a damn thing any BTC user could do about it. Also, I think it'll be interesting to see what happens when the capital gains being made from Bitcoin reach a level where the Internal Revenue Service decides it's worthwhile to start pursuing people for them.
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Bitcoin is an idea. That is why it will probably be resilient. Like a virus. What's more, it is an idea that is international and does not respect national borders. It is not possible for the US government to legislate such an idea out of existence and I believe that any attempt to do so will only point more people in the direction of that idea and cause more people to think about that idea. That is why the government and the Fed has been cosying up to Bitcoin in recent months.
 
Vermonter said:
Stepping in here for a second to address this particular falsehood. Papa Johns does NOT take Bitcoins. There are third-party sites (such as PizzaForCoins) that act as a middleman. You pay them BTC, they order the pizza and pay for it in USD.

-ETA- Forgot a )
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Of course, the only way you can claim a falsehood is by reframing the assertion, which we can call by another term, LYING. The assertion orgionally made by me was "gonna buy a pizza with bitcoins."

Got it now? Thanks.

Same is true for remirol, trying now to claim that I was lying saying I bought Hulu+ with bitcoin.

Edited to correct member's user name. Do not change another member's user name in order to insult.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: LashL


You know what? People are not stupid, they see through these things.


Democracy Simulator said:
Bitcoin is an idea. That is why it will probably be resilient. Like a virus. What's more, it is an idea that is international and does not respect national borders. It is not possible for the US government to legislate such an idea out of existence and I believe that any attempt to do so will only point more people in the direction of that idea and cause more people to think about that idea. That is why the government and the Fed has been cosying up to Bitcoin in recent months.
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Good point.

If they try to ban it it goes up.

And if they don't ban it it goes up.

So what they gonna do?
 
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Note to all: do not personalize your arguments, and remain civil and polite. Thank you in advance for your anticipated cooperation.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: LashL


mhaze said:
DOJ??? I don't even think you know what department would be 'cracking down on bitcoin'. FYI the US Government officials of the relevant agencies go and give talks at conferences on bitcoin. Members of the Bitcoin Foundation go and talk with people in Washington DC in various agencies.

Capital gains? Pursuing? What in the world are you talking about ? Let me guess - you presuppose that people owning bitcoin are not paying appropriate taxes in whatever countries they reside.

Are you still in the habit of beating your wife?

(for the clueless...this is a classic example of mis framing and presumption in logic)
Click to expand...

<SNIP>


Edited by LashL: 
Edited and jhunter1163 will report for retraining with the Incentivizer™ asap.


Here's another interesting tidbit:

http://arstechnica.com/business/201...-for-almost-half-of-all-bitcoin-transactions/

It seems like BTC is good for gambling, speculating, drug dealing, and really not much else.
 
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Tippit said:
....

As it is I will have to settle for the enormous alleged profits I've made in precious metals.
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Your friend is a skinflint for giving you five bitcoins only to reclaim them once the price he could get exceeded $1,000 per unit. Did he at least buy you a supper with the proceeds of the returned gift? Is he cashing in now with the remainder? If not, why not?

Let's get some tangible claims in here instead of imaginary events that happened in the past and that earned alleged windfalls for fictional characters.
 
mhaze said:
Of course, the only way you can claim a falsehood is by reframing the assertion, which we can call by another term, LYING. The assertion orgionally made by me was "gonna buy a pizza with bitcoins."

Got it now? Thanks.
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There's no need to be so hostile about it. You are still wrong, however. I'm not re-framing the assertion, I'm clarifying it. You cannot order a pizza from Papa Johns and pay with Bitcoin. This is a fact. You can, however, pay someone else Bitcoin, and they will order a pizza for you. Why you would want to do this aside from the novelty is beyond me. You end up paying more money for the same product, unless for some reason the service doesn't charge any money for the pleasure of "paying" in Bitcoin.

I'm only interested in the facts. As of today, there are very, very limited vendors and companies that accept Bitcoin. This could change. I sincerely doubt that it will, and that at some point the price will plummet like all hyped commodities. I think I have some Pogs kicking around, want some? Only $1000 per Pog!
 
stilicho said:
That's why this thing isn't a real currency. When a handful of individuals owns a fifth of it as inventory it's more like a collectible--art pieces, vintage automobiles, moon rocks, etc.
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How is that different than say the top 400 richest people in the US owning more wealth than the bottom 50%?
 
Vermonter said:
There's no need to be so hostile about it. You are still wrong, however. I'm not re-framing the assertion, I'm clarifying it.....
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Yes, you are reframing the assertion. There is no hostility, that's simply what you are doing. It is necessary to reframe the assertion in order to claim the assertion was a "falsehood", which is what you did. Thereupon I called you on it, and you then assert this is hostility.

No, my friend, the confusion is all yours. To understand, go look at the exact wording of the assertion made. This is not rocket science.

In fact, your logic is so scrambled you are tripping in it. Let's repeat your statement:

You cannot order a pizza from Papa Johns and pay with Bitcoin. This is a fact. You can, however, pay someone else Bitcoin, and they will order a pizza for you. Why you would want to do this aside from the novelty is beyond me. You end up paying more money for the same product, unless for some reason the service doesn't charge any money for the pleasure of "paying" in Bitcoin.

Let me help you see your errors. Here goes.

You cannot order a SOCKET WRENCH from CHEAP TOOLS and pay with PAYPAL. This is a fact. You can, however, pay EBAY with PAYPAL, and they will order a SOCKET WRENCH from CHEAP TOOLS for you. Why you would want to do this aside from the novelty is beyond me. You end up paying more money for the SOCKET WRENCH, unless for some reason EBAY doesn't charge any money for the pleasure of "paying" in PAYPAL.

Light going on now?
 
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jhunter1163 said:
I've tried to avoid doing this before, but it seems to be necessary now;
http://arstechnica.com/business/201...-for-almost-half-of-all-bitcoin-transactions/

It seems like BTC is good for gambling, speculating, drug dealing, and really not much else.
Click to expand...

I've tried to avoid doing this before, but it seems to be necessary now.

The article does not say or support hardly at all your claim.

First, it is only about gambling, and it says this:
If you look at average daily transaction volume for June, SatoshiDice only constitutes 5 percent of daily Bitcoin transaction volume.

SatoshiDice, however, is recognized as a successful company using bitcoin.Personally I am opposed to gambling, but to each his own.
 
Here's a link from a few pages ago:

http://www.coinometrics.com/bitcoin/btix

This link shows that there were about 80,000 BTC transactions in the last 30 days. A significant fraction of those transactions were on SatoshiDice.com (between 25 and 50 percent, from the arstechnica link above). So, between SatoshiDice, transactions between wallets, and a few speculators, the real-world use of BTC would seem to be quite minimal.
 
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