How To Use Bitcoin – The Most Important Creation In The History Of Man

[Anders Lindman]

And it's likely good to have consumers have a choice in currencies, some that are superinflationary like the USD, and some that are deflationary like the btc.

Exactly. That's why I want an internationally legally regulated currency similar to bitcoin but that is stable in terms of inflation and deflation. The new peer-to-peer crypto currency would compete with bitcoin. So those who want to continue to us use bitcoin, then that's fine!

 

[wrs]

http://preev.com/

Well it's still at 937$ right now.

At mtgox it's bouncing around like a yoyo. Someone liquidated 1100 BTC for $930. It's only very small transactions that are driving the price back up now. People not selling their bitcoins at this price are missing out on a nice gain.

 

[Tippit]

Bitcoin is a really clever invention, but I don't like the potential pyramid scheme effect of the currency. And even if bitcoin remains increasing in value I think it's too unfair for people who enter the market late.

Plus the legal status of bitcoin is shaky. I would like to have a similar currency that is specified and approved by international standard organizations. And a currency that is made stable in terms of inflation and deflation. Bitcoin is super deflationary if it becomes a major currency.

So in order to "make" a currency stable, typically requires increasing the supply of the currency which has the effect of devaluing it, by diluting existing currency holders. This begs the questions, who gets the new supply of currency and under what terms, and why should currency savers, who had the foresight to invest in and/or exchange their real wealth and labor for said currency, suffer at the expense of currency issuers, who do no real work, produce nothing, and merely steal purchasing power from everyone else via technocratic control and monopoly issuance of the currency?

The currency you describe is any given national currency, which is being dumped in favor of bitcoin at the moment for the reasons I described. If and when bitcoin stabilizes, it will begin to resemble a medium of exchange, and the rate of deflation will slow to the point that people will be more willing to spend them, and it will be then perhaps when its true potential could be realized.

 

[Anders Lindman]

So in order to "make" a currency stable, typically requires increasing the supply of the currency which has the effect of devaluing it, by diluting existing currency holders. This begs the questions, who gets the new supply of currency and under what terms, and why should currency savers, who had the foresight to invest in and/or exchange their real wealth and labor for said currency, suffer at the expense of currency issuers, who do no real work, produce nothing, and merely steal purchasing power from everyone else via technocratic control and monopoly issuance of the currency?

The currency you describe is any given national currency, which is being dumped in favor of bitcoin at the moment for the reasons I described. If and when bitcoin stabalizes, it will begin to resemble a medium of exchange, and the rate of deflation will slow to the point that people will be more willing to spend them, and it will be then perhaps when its true potential could be realized.

An international organization, such established under the UN, could issue the new currency interest-free by trading it based on a basket of ordinary currencies. That would make it at least as stable as the dollar. And once the currency is in circulation, then it can function like bitcoin with peer-to-peer and potentially anonymity.

Alternatively, some clever algorithm could be used making it more stable in terms of inflation and deflation, since even a basket of ordinary currencies would be fairly inflationary.

"The United Nations Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC) (French: Le Conseil économique et social des Nations unies; CÉSNU) constitutes one of the principal organs of the United Nations. It is responsible for coordinating the economic, social and related work of 14 UN specialized agencies, their functional commissions and five regional commissions. ECOSOC has 54 members; it holds four-week session each year in July." -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Economic_and_Social_Council

 

[Tippit]

An international organization, such established under the UN, could issue the new currency interest-free by trading it based on a basket of ordinary currencies. That would make it at least as stable as the dollar. And once the currency is in circulation, then it can function like bitcoin with peer-to-peer and potentially anonymity.

Alternatively, some clever algorithm could be used making it more stable in terms of inflation and deflation, since even a basket of ordinary currencies would be fairly inflationary.

"The United Nations Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC) (French: Le Conseil économique et social des Nations unies; CÉSNU) constitutes one of the principal organs of the United Nations. It is responsible for coordinating the economic, social and related work of 14 UN specialized agencies, their functional commissions and five regional commissions. ECOSOC has 54 members; it holds four-week session each year in July." -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Economic_and_Social_Council

Lol.

 

[wrs]

So in order to "make" a currency stable, typically requires increasing the supply of the currency which has the effect of devaluing it, by diluting existing currency holders. This begs the questions, who gets the new supply of currency and under what terms, and why should currency savers, who had the foresight to invest in and/or exchange their real wealth and labor for said currency, suffer at the expense of currency issuers, who do no real work, produce nothing, and merely steal purchasing power from everyone else via technocratic control and monopoly issuance of the currency?

Who worked for their bitcoins? Didn't a computer produce them all?

The currency you describe is any given national currency, which is being dumped in favor of bitcoin at the moment for the reasons I described. If and when bitcoin stabilizes, it will begin to resemble a medium of exchange, and the rate of deflation will slow to the point that people will be more willing to spend them, and it will be then perhaps when its true potential could be realized.

I hardly think currency is being dumped in favor of bitcoin. No one uses bitcoin at the store so therefore your premise is false. Bitcoin is essentially a cyber commodity that is experiencing the effect of speculation at the moment. No one has any debt they need to pay off in bitcoin and they can't buy oil or food with their bitcoins. It's a purely speculative instrument.

 

[Tippit]

Who worked for their bitcoins? Didn't a computer produce them all?

Satoshi worked to create them, miners invested in the capital required to mine them, and people who exchanged real savings for bitcoin presumably had to work for their savings. This is assuming central bankers haven't jumped on the bitcoin frenzy using the public's stolen purchasing power.

I hardly think currency is being dumped in favor of bitcoin. No one uses bitcoin at the store so therefore your premise is false. Bitcoin is essentially a cyber commodity that is experiencing the effect of speculation at the moment. No one has any debt they need to pay off in bitcoin and they can't buy oil or food with their bitcoins. It's a purely speculative instrument.

The fact that the USD denominated bitcoin price is skyrocketing indicates that people are dumping USD for them. Other than that I don't disagree with the rest of your 2nd paragraph.

 

[Anders Lindman]

Lol.

Oh, I didn't mean that the UN should become super rich. Instead, the UN could destroy the currency exchanged! This means that the overall money supply in the world will remain the same, and only that ordinary currencies would gradually be replaced by the new global digital currency.

Say hello to ze New World Order!!! The Mark of the Beast is at hand!!! Just kidding. But seriously, if done correctly, then it could be a major improvement for the economy.

 

[mhaze]

Oh, I didn't mean that the UN should become super rich....

Does not matter, they are not and cannot get in control of bitcoin. It is simply an algorithm and peer to peer computer software. You could think of it as 'the peoples money' in opposition to the government monies. You've linked several times to the UN and their functions, therefore whether you know it or not you are the enemy of bitcoin.

Who worked for their bitcoins? Didn't a computer produce them all?

Two hundred trillion SHA-2 computations per hour for a month or two might get you a bitcoin. Now back that out to see what kind of gear you need, dude. I'll give you the quick answer, it's enough computing power to heat your home in the winter. Back that out to what your investment would be to be able to produce bitcoins and let's talk.

....No one uses bitcoin at the store so therefore your premise is false. Bitcoin is essentially a cyber commodity that is experiencing the effect of speculation at the moment. No one has any debt they need to pay off in bitcoin and they can't buy oil or food with their bitcoins. It's a purely speculative instrument.

According to you, then, internet purchasing and sales of goods does not exist.

.... wait, that's actually happening in pretty much every household....

 

[jhunter1163]

The fact that the USD denominated bitcoin price is skyrocketing indicates that people are dumping USD for them. Other than that I don't disagree with the rest of your 2nd paragraph.

Bahahahahahaha! Dumping dollars for Bitcoins! *snerk*

Seriously, people are buying Bitcoins because they think they can sell them later for MORE of those stodgy old dollars. This has all the earmarks of a classic speculative bubble. No way would I put any of my hard-earned USD into BTC.

 

[Tippit]

Bahahahahahaha! Dumping dollars for Bitcoins! *snerk*

Seriously, people are buying Bitcoins because they think they can sell them later for MORE of those stodgy old dollars. This has all the earmarks of a classic speculative bubble. No way would I put any of my hard-earned USD into BTC.

No one is asking you to. But smart people don't want dollars, they want the things that dollars can buy, an important distinction. This requires at the very least to maintain a small balance in dollars at the very instant you wish to make the purchase, but for no longer. Smart people would rather not have their savings looted.

 

[mhaze]

Bahahahahahaha! Dumping dollars for Bitcoins! *snerk*

Seriously, people are buying Bitcoins because they think they can sell them later for MORE of those stodgy old dollars. This has all the earmarks of a classic speculative bubble. No way would I put any of my hard-earned USD into BTC.

Yeah, that's cool, man. Stick with your USD.

I heard you can get 0.0000000000000000000000000001% on a savings account.

No...wait....I heard they're gonna start charging you for your money in a savings account.

BAhahahahahahahahaha!

No one is asking you to. But smart people don't want dollars, they want the things that dollars can buy, an important distinction. This requires at the very least to maintain a small balance in dollars at the very instant you wish to make the purchase, but for no longer. Smart people would rather not have their savings looted.

Man, that's like, deep, next thing you going be quoting F.A. Hayek "Choice in Currency".

Wonder what Hyack would have said about bitcoin. Or Keynes. The real Keynes, not the comic book figure that corrupt governments have made him into.

You know, next thing, the shills gonna be quoting someone, like, "AUTHORITATIVE", "ESTEEMED", "Nibble Prize Winner"....like Krugman .... pontificating on bitcoin.

 

[mhaze]

Exactly. That's why I want an internationally legally regulated currency similar to bitcoin but that is stable in terms of inflation and deflation. The new peer-to-peer crypto currency would compete with bitcoin. So those who want to continue to us use bitcoin, then that's fine!

I understand, let me translate.

The new peer-to-peer crypto currency which does not exist except as a figment of a fragment of a fantasy would compete with bitcoin which exists and has endured numerous problems and each time came out stronger.

The new ecurrency which does not exist that lets governments track every bubble gum and hamburger purchase you make and which the money printers tell us to trust will enable a new round of stealing by corrupt government officials as they make it out of thin air.

Your new imitation-owned-by-the-governments-bitcoin-lookalike. You know, I just don't think the hackers and geeks would get behind it.

Sorry.

 

[Sceptic-PK]

The fact that the USD denominated bitcoin price is skyrocketing indicates that people are dumping USD for them.

 

[Belz...]

Lol.

Wow. Convincing.

 

[Belz...]

Yeah, that's cool, man. Stick with your USD.

I heard you can get 0.0000000000000000000000000001% on a savings account.

You know your argument is weak when you have to lie to make a point. I made 10% each year for the last few years on risk-free investments at my bank. Doesn't sound that crappy to me. Of course those are CDN.

The point is that people buy BTC as a speculative way to make money when they sell their bitcoins. It's the Stone of Jordan all over again. It's not like they shop at WalMart with them.

 

[psionl0]

Bitcoin now dropping like a rock, headed back to $150. It has dropped $140 in the last hour on heavy volume at MTGOX.

 

[Anders Lindman]

I understand, let me translate.

The new peer-to-peer crypto currency which does not exist except as a figment of a fragment of a fantasy would compete with bitcoin which exists and has endured numerous problems and each time came out stronger.

The new ecurrency which does not exist that lets governments track every bubble gum and hamburger purchase you make and which the money printers tell us to trust will enable a new round of stealing by corrupt government officials as they make it out of thin air.

Your new imitation-owned-by-the-governments-bitcoin-lookalike. You know, I just don't think the hackers and geeks would get behind it.

Sorry.

Bitcoin is proof of concept! Just specify a similar currency and make the international legal community to agree on it. And let the new currency compete with bitcoin! Are you afraid of competition?

 

[mhaze]

Bitcoin is proof of concept! Just specify a similar currency and make the international legal community to agree on it. And let the new currency compete with bitcoin! Are you afraid of competition?

Ah, no, I think what is happening is that you are stringing words together and then believing them. That doesn't work here.

Bitcoin is a mathematical algorithm. Nowhere does it benefit from or have need of governments. Nowhere do they benefit from it. Any ecurrency promulgated by a government would have differing characteristics and thus be a different algorithm.

Hence, bitcoin is not a proof of concept as you see it. At the core of the bitcoin algorithm is the conception of a currency that does not require trusted intermediaries, and that is not based on trust. Banks, central banks, master card and visa, paypal, the UN, governments at all levels, and other intermediaries are some of the concepts that are what we call "trusted intermediaries" which are not necessary when bitcoin is utilized.

 

[mhaze]

You know your argument is weak when you have to lie to make a point. I made 10% each year for the last few years on risk-free investments at my bank. Doesn't sound that crappy to me. Of course those are CDN.

Of course your comments have nothing to do with the discussion...

...The point is that people buy BTC as a speculative way to make money when they sell their bitcoins. It's the Stone of Jordan all over again. It's not like they shop at WalMart with them.

Ah, actually quite a few do.

http://www.coindesk.com/groceries-bitcoin-egifter-walmart/

Frankly I don't think you know what you are talking about. They probably have bought them for any number of reasons, like how people buy other things.