• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Continuation Part Six: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

Status
Not open for further replies.
Lumumba's debt to Pacelli is 100,000 euros which he's never paid and probably couldn't afford to pay. It was in an article at the start of the trial.


Yes, I suppose it's one of the ironies of this trial process that the only non-state participants who have paid their legal teams are Knox and Sollecito.

And it raises the ugly spectre of financial motivation. Even a fool could see that there's a potentially-strong motivation for the lawyers of Lumumba and the Kercher family to pursue this case long beyond any reasonable point, in an increasingly-desperate chase for money to pay their fees.

While I really don't feel sorry for Lumumba (I think he has taken a nasty, vindictive stance against Knox and has retained a disgustingly underhand lawyer), I feel considerable sorrow for the Kercher family. They are now in the hole to Maresca for hundreds of thousands of Euros. And for what? In my view, he's led them a merry dance, and has considerably increased their confusion and suffering.
 
Yes, I suppose it's one of the ironies of this trial process that the only non-state participants who have paid their legal teams are Knox and Sollecito.

And it raises the ugly spectre of financial motivation. Even a fool could see that there's a potentially-strong motivation for the lawyers of Lumumba and the Kercher family to pursue this case long beyond any reasonable point, in an increasingly-desperate chase for money to pay their fees.

While I really don't feel sorry for Lumumba (I think he has taken a nasty, vindictive stance against Knox and has retained a disgustingly underhand lawyer), I feel considerable sorrow for the Kercher family. They are now in the hole to Maresca for hundreds of thousands of Euros. And for what? In my view, he's led them a merry dance, and has considerably increased their confusion and suffering.

Are you sure that these shysters aren't working on a contingency?
 
Yes, I suppose it's one of the ironies of this trial process that the only non-state participants who have paid their legal teams are Knox and Sollecito.

And it raises the ugly spectre of financial motivation. Even a fool could see that there's a potentially-strong motivation for the lawyers of Lumumba and the Kercher family to pursue this case long beyond any reasonable point, in an increasingly-desperate chase for money to pay their fees.

While I really don't feel sorry for Lumumba (I think he has taken a nasty, vindictive stance against Knox and has retained a disgustingly underhand lawyer), I feel considerable sorrow for the Kercher family. They are now in the hole to Maresca for hundreds of thousands of Euros. And for what? In my view, he's led them a merry dance, and has considerably increased their confusion and suffering.

Well if a majority of Italians think Knox is guilty then I would think that the sympathy most locals are giving him would compensate for his lost wages. I'm not sure if he's back in business but I would think the exposure would actually be good for business.

How many college kids would visit his bar now with the publicity of this case. I would think it's almost a tourist attraction now. Perhaps he should stop his whining and get to work !!

I can see him hiring Yummi and selling Amanda Knox Voo Doo dolls behind the bar. After all ...didn't he approach Amanda after the murder about making money off talking to the press. That's how this scumbag thinks.

He didn't have concerns with MK when he spoke to Ak at the school of Foreigners. It was about money. Cashing in on Merideth's death...how sick. In fact this conversation is what many believe got him in this mess to begin with.
 
Last edited:
I absolutely agree. All the evidence supports this version of events. What's more, the evidence tends to firmly contradict the prosecution version of events - that the police were casually inquiring about Lumumba when Knox suddenly blurted out "He did it! He's a nasty man!".
Just to recap, I consider there to be several crucial pieces of evidence pointing at coercion. Firstly, there's the fact that the police immediately took Knox's "see you later" text as an indication that Knox and Lumumba were fixing up a meeting for later that same evening. Second, there's the evidence of interpreter Donnino, in which she made explicit reference to coaching Knox to "remember" the traumatic memory of Lumumba murdering Meredith. Thirdly, there's the infamous De Felice statement.

And these are hard, incontrovertible pieces of evidence. They all point in only one way: that Knox was coerced into "confirming" a version of events that the police/PM already thought they "knew". When you add into that Knox's version of events (which, granted, one could consider potentially biased) and Knox's subsequent written and verbal communications (all of which clearly tend to support a coercion scenario), I believe that any reasonable person would have to draw the conclusion that Knox was indeed improperly coerced that night in then Perugia police HQ.

That highlighted part was the reason why I clung to holding Knox liable for calunnia for so long. I had thought Hellmann had unlocked the secret as to Knox would inexplicably, suddenly, and spontaneously "name" Lumumba as the perp. I, back them, was the only person in the universe who thought Hellmann got the Goldilocks verdict - not too hot, not too cold, but just right.

Then Someone mentioned I should read CNN's Drew Griffin's interview with Mignini.... the term "paradigm shift" is the one describing what happened next.

Mignini is a lying liar, and continues so to do through his minions (fewer and fewer these days as Mignini gets relegated to the bleachers... although we see occasional displays of pro-Mignini posting here in this very forum.)

So where is this case after Crini has given his own prosecutorial "theory of the crime" to the Florence Court? Well, (unless I'm missing something) Crini is doing his best trying to make a silk purse from a sow's ear.

Crini is being true to this "osmotic" standard... although it could not be any more stark the flaw in that, when someone has to actually argue it in court. The ISC seems to have substituted this "osmotic" standard for what other folks call, "a comprehensive theory of the crime which explains the evidence."

Could the word "osmotic" now be an Italian euphemism for, "we have no integrated theory of this crime which explains all the evidence, and is based on that evidence, but it sure would be embarrassing to acquit these two 5 years after the fact....."? I think so.

Key to a comprehensive theory of the crime is T.O.D. Note what Crini has done, as explained here upthread and in other places. He's told the court there are two possible times of death - either late, so that Curatolo and Nara can be squeezed into this, or early so that Rudy's initial accounts and the science can be squeezed into this. What's missing is any actual science which gives aid to the court in establishing T.O.D...... in both an "osmotic" world, as well as a "comprehensive theory of the crime" world, time of death is key. True, some homicides have to be solved differently when this sort of science is missing.... but...

... consider this. The only mistake Mr. Mignini actually admits to, is not allowing the medical examiner on the scene to take the body temperature. Mignini's reasoning was that he did not want to disturb "the crime scene".

This leads to two further observations. One is that Mignini was de facto admitting back then, that the "crime scene" was, in fact, Meredith's room, the only place in the cottage where the scientific details of the murder were left forensically intact - the murderer, be it one or three, gave forensic investigators the good fortune of preserving the scene behind a locked door.

And if the crime scene was in Meredith's room, then Mignini was de facto admitting that the condition of the cottage outside of Meredith's room was forensically worthless. Why not - the postal police had given Knox and Romaneli free rein through the upper floor of the cottage (sans Meredith's room). Romaneli obviously interfered with her own room, the second most important room in this "scene" when she "rummaged" through it, took her laptop of of it (even when behind police tape), and perhaps even some marijuana (which would have been a more powerful motivator to croos a police line than a laptop!)....

But consider this.... Crini perhaps knows, now - in 2013 in Florence - that this crime was not judged as guilty against Knox and Sollecito because of anything found in Meredith's room....

... the basis of Massei's judgement against the pair was mainly the overwhelming evidence that Knox had once been out in the hall, in the bathroom, maybe once in Filomena's room.... namely, that she lived there.

All coming into play because of Mignini's own admission that not taking body temperature now, in 2013, to a seasoned prosecutor like Crini now puts T.O.D. on a sliding scale, where sliding scales tend to promote "not guilty" verdicts.

There are now two "osmotic" scenarios that the prosecution is putting forth. And the scenarios have to remain "osmotic" because the evidence, itself, says many things; some things which give an alibi to AK and RS and some which.... well, I was going to say "don't give an alibi," but I'm not sure that accurately describes it. But this latter point on the sliding T.O.D. Crini has settled upon leaves room for another activity which has plagued this....

... the demand that AK and RS now prove they weren't part of it.

This is a fair rendering of where this case is, in its third trial, the first being prosecuted by someone other than Mignini-Comodi. Comodi is under investigation for the misuse of Italian taxpayer's money, Mignini's own abuse of office charge is back in play, Napoleoni and her women-thugs have been investigated for misuse of police resources on a private matter....

.... Mignini, who us innocenters seem to want to vilify to exclusion of the others, is up in the bleachers with two, lone internet-types left defending him...

And Crini's case is almost closed, with just his take on the RIS Carabinieri's take of the knife DNA to come. And Crini is trying to march to the ISC's beat established last March, and so far everything has gone the defence's way - and where's the evaluation of multiple attackers? Is that now assumed with no "evidence", just an "osmotic" evaluation of it? Is Crini afraid that opening that up, too, will be like Channel 5 taking that kid to the cottage for the world to see that the break-in through Filomena's window is eminently doable? I bet Crini will not be playing THAT in court!?!!?!!

Even though it's not before the Nencini court, all of a sudden the calunnia against Lumumba is going through another paradigm shift. It may take the ECHR to sort it out, there's also still possibility that the ISC in total can undo what a former session of it's own body did... remote, but possible.

Here it is, six years later, and the Italian judiciary is perfecting the art of the "knock on", a term taken from rugby. All through it AK and RS have been ruined financially and the Kerchers have been ruined emotionally; which is not to exclude either from being ruined the other way, either.

All because Mignini didn't allow a medical examiner to take body temperature. You certainly wouldn't want to solve this case using evidence, would you?
 
Last edited:
Grinder said:
The calunnia case isn't done, right?

My understanding is that the conviction is locked in but the appeal court could change the penalty for it. However, it's all very murky, much like most of the Italian procedures.

It seems like in Italy nothing is ever really "out of play" when it comes to the courts.
 
My understanding is that the conviction is locked in but the appeal court could change the penalty for it. However, it's all very murky, much like most of the Italian procedures.

My question was in relationship to the appeal to the ECHR. Is the callunnia done if the sentencing isn't done? While I firmly believe she was led to her statement, the unaggravated version isn't as hard to swallow.
 
I think I've started giving up trying to peg Andrea Vogt.

A subtext of her recent tweet about Crini's "aggressive" case, is that stuff may have been deliberately omitted by the prosecution at the original appeal's trial.

Did she just take a swipe at Mignini? Did she imply that Mignini deliberately booted the case in 2011?

Please help!
 
Last edited:
Crini's new theory of the crime

"Crini alleges that Guede may have sparked anew tensions over cleanliness after he defecated in a toilet inside the hillside apartment and left it unflushed. Crini said Guede, who was friendly with young men living in a neighboring apartment, had done the same thing the previous week." link to WaPo story here. Now I have heard everything.
 
Last edited:
"Crini alleges that Guede may have sparked anew tensions over cleanliness after he defecated in a toilet inside the hillside apartment and left it unflushed. Crini said Guede, who was friendly with young men living in a neighboring apartment, had done the same thing the previous week." link to WaPo story here. Now I have heard everything.

So they were fighting over a turd, and then Rudy's semen fell on the floor and Meredith ended up dead? What a bunch of clowns.
 
"Crini alleges that Guede may have sparked anew tensions over cleanliness after he defecated in a toilet inside the hillside apartment and left it unflushed. Crini said Guede, who was friendly with young men living in a neighboring apartment, had done the same thing the previous week." link to WaPo story here. Now I have heard everything.

When do they stop presenting "what ifs" in this case, now 6 years and three trials old, and start being led by the evidence?
 
Last edited:
Insiders noted that some gravitas was added to the Florence prosecutor’s arguments by the presence beside him of veteran magistrate Tindari Baglione. Baglione became a judge in 1970 and worked as prosecutor in Florence for 14 years before moving on to Pistoia, then the Supreme Court. He returned to prosecute again in Florence (in the Court of Appeals) in June of this year. His presence in court is viewed as a gesture of support to Crini, a physical reminder that it is an institution–not just one man–asking for convictions to be upheld. Civil parties, including lawyers for the Kercher family and Patrick Lumumba, will give their arguments next, followed by defense arguments in December — likely to be equally heated. A verdict is expected in mid-January.

Amazing legal culture. Some "star" prosecutor needs to sit with the "new kid" so that the professional jury understands how they are supposed rule. They need to be reminded that the prosecution isn't just by one man?

The fact that they still stick by the idiot witnesses, that aren't witnesses at all, pretty much says it all.
 
I love the new poop motive, but cannot anyone help me out here:

Was it this:

1. Kercher complains to Knox about Rudy's poop
2. Guede rapes Kercher
3. Knox stabs Kercher (I guess to cover up Guede's rape or because Kercher complained about the rapists poop???)

Or is it this:

1. Kercher complains to Knox about Rudy's poop
2. Knox stabs Kercher in the neck because of the Rudy-poop-complaint
3. Rudy rapes Kercher's corpse
 
So they were fighting over a turd, and then Rudy's semen fell on the floor and Meredith ended up dead? What a bunch of clowns.

We Americans understand the real problem here, but we are normally too polite to bring it up. European toilet paper is just too rough. As my dainty sister who studied in the Italian part of Switzerland told me, the toilet paper "really rubs you raw!" It's like sandpaper, she said. We prefer squeezable-soft "Charmin" brand.

That is why Rudy didn't like to wipe or flush!
 
Last edited:
It's all turning into an episode of Jerry Springer - I killed my roommate over a floater, is even more ridiculous than the episode about marrying a horse

I don't know how anyone is supposed to defend themselves against this non-evidence, the prosecution are just fantasists
 
Do we think that Kercher wrongfully accused Knox of taking the unflushed crap in Filomena's bathroom? Or was Kercher just mad at Knox because Guede "forgot" to flush?

So many questions now that this case is all about extreme bathroom rage.
 
And the time it took Guede to do the poo also has to be added into the already ridiculous timeline - as he claims to listen to his iPod whilst on the loo, he sounds like the kind of guy who likes to take his time

Shame that it's all a bit late to get some more information on his bowel habits

And after her extreme POORAGE Amanda decided to leave it unflushed and to point it out to the police - she's such an evil genius
 
a new year's resolution

Do we think that Kercher wrongfully accused Knox of taking the unflushed crap in Filomena's bathroom? Or was Kercher just mad at Knox because Guede "forgot" to flush?

So many questions now that this case is all about extreme bathroom rage.
I know one thing: I am never going to leave a lid up again. And I will always make sure that there is a roll of TP in the roller.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom