Is Not Knowing the Capital of Canada a Problem?

[This is The End]

In the Americas, this is only true if you're in the United States. No other country in the continent refers to the US as America.

That's odd because I know many people from Canada and Mexico and several other countries in North and South America and they all refer to the USA as America.

Do I seriously have to have them register accounts at the JREF for you to recant a sentence like "No other country in the continent refers to the US as America." which is clearly incorrect on its face for more than one reason.

And on top of that, there is no other place even called America.

"North America" is a continent. "South America" is a continent. "Central America" is a region. They are often referred to as "The Americas" collectively.

But the only place called America (without an S) is the country "The United States of America".

As I said earlier, if China was on a continent called "North China" it wouldn't suddenly mean the single word China does not refer to the country "The People's Republic of China".

 

[This is The End]

That just doesn't make sense to an American.

If someone in another city in New York says they are going to "New York City" the people around them would all look at each other weird and think: "Well duh!! Why did that person just add the word city??". They would think that was the stupid person, not the other way around!

No, they wouldn't. That is laughable.

Yes they would. What is laughable is that #1 You don't know this and that #2 You assume something is the case which you clearly don't know.

Go into a restaurant in a city in New York state and say "I am going to New York City" and then see the reaction you get. They will instantly peg you as a tourist and you will probably get a smart ass comment like "I hope so because you're already in the state!".

You would either say "I'm going into New York" or "I'm going into The City".

 

[AdMan]

That's odd because I know many people from Canada and Mexico and several other countries in North and South America and they all refer to the USA as America.

Yeah, I've spent many years in several countries in Latin America and I don't buy that.

Americanos, yes, does refer to Americans. But America definitely does not refer to the United States in this part of the world.

Hola from Mexico, by the way.

 

[IMST]

That is incorrect. Quebec City is a city. Quebec is a province.

I doubt that any Quebecker would say that Quebec City = Quebec. Are the French Canadians that you're referrring to located in New Brunswick, perhaps? (Or some other location other than Quebec.)

Also, have you asked the two "French Canadians" that you know whether they have the same problem with ascertaining the difference between New York City and New York state, and whether they have the same problem ascertaining the difference between Mexico City and the country of Mexico? Just wondering.

They're both from Montreal, but I've heard them both refer to the city with Quebec in it's name without bothering to say "city".

 

[IMST]

As far as what people call the country I live in, I've rarely heard "America" by itself from anyone that lives in my particular region of it, but when I made friends from England, it stood out to me that that's the only thing they ever called it.

 

[Foolmewunz]

Oh, and just to clarify.... you address a letter to New York City, properly, to

John Doe
123 W. Anystreet
New York, NY 100xx

There's no New York City, really. There's New York, NY or it's proper name, The City of New York, on all official documents. People got in the habit of throwing in the word "city" because they kept running into Canadian lawyers who would bend their ear on the topic for hours, feigning confusion the whole time.

 

[theprestige]

Yeah, I've spent many years in several countries in Latin America and I don't buy that.

Americanos, yes, does refer to Americans. But America definitely does not refer to the United States in this part of the world.

Hola from Mexico, by the way.

Oi from Brazil, where "America" is absolutely a common colloquialism, indicating the eponymous united states.

 

[Cavemonster]

Just adding to the chorus. I have many friends in New York (City). I visit there every couple of months. I'm in the arts so a huge number of people I know over the last decade have migrated to New York or LA. And that's the way we generally say it in conversation. Unless there are other context cues surrounding it "New York" with no modifier generally refers to the city. It's the state that more often requires the modifier.

If a friend says:
"I'm going to New York this weekend to see a show." or
"I'm thinking of moving to New York." or
"The food here sucks and makes me miss New York pizza."

And on and on, it is always clear that the city is being talked about. In fact, I'm struggling to remember if my friends who are actually from there have EVER referred to it as "New York City" and I can't say I've ever heard that said.

 

[Travis]

Much like Quebec is a province, not a city (I believe its capital is Montreal).

ETA: I'm wrong, it's Quebec City.

Right, and most people I know refer to Quebec City when they say "Quebec" unless they are specifically referring to another bid for secession.

"Quebec City" is a city. "Quebec" is a province (state-equivalent).

eta: Does it still count as ninja'ed if my window was just sitting there for a while before I posted?

Nope. Sorry

Given we're in a geography thread, wouldn't actual names be more important than nicknames? I certainly wouldn't argue that Kansas City should be accepted as KC in anything but a colloquial manner even if "KC" is much more commonly used in conversation.



It also says "Québec City and Area. Find comprehensive Québec City and area information ...". Looks like the broad welcome is broader than the city.

I'm not sure it is important to the thread or not.

Personally I had never heard it referred to as "Quebec City" before.

On the news it will just be "some crazy happening up in Quebec today."

And back when we learned about how our Revolutionary forces failed to sack the city it was just called "Quebec" back then too.

I had seriously never heard the phrase "Quebec City" until this thread.

So I guess I learned something new.

I agree.

Remember this section of discussion was about whether Americans giving "Quebec" as the capital of Canada is as bad as a Canadian giving "Florida" as the capital of the US. Travis contended that Florida was a state, not a city, so the Florida mistake was worse. I contend that since Quebec is a province, not a city, the mistakes are equivalent (and by implication the argument is humorously ironic).

But there is a big city named "Quebec" that everyone has heard of.

Is there a big city named "Florida" that everyone has heard of?

You're right that Quebec is a province and Quebec City is a city. Much like New York is a state and New York City is a city.

 

[joesixpack]

I think that the fact that people can't name the capital of a neighboring country, while by itself may not be all that important per se, implies a general lack of knowledge of the world around you and what's going on in it. In my view, it suggests a lack of curiosity about what's going on outside your own borders. Not good.

I think the fact is that you've extrapolated the results of a very non-scientific survey in a way that reinforces your generally negative opinion of the level of education and character of Americans . Bias confirmed. Congratulations.

 

[GlennB]

There seems to be a schism between those applying terms that might be technically correct and those accepting everyday usage.

If one of our kids announced "I'm going to visit New York" then I'd have no doubt it was that big city they were heading for.

"Ever been to New York?"
"No, but I was close during my hiking tour of New York state"

But then I checked Wiki (which is never wrong) and "New York" defaults to information about the state. You're invited to click "New York City" for the capital biggest city of the state. I also noticed that Albany is the state capital, but my old brain is probably too loaded with trivia to find room for that.

 

[joesixpack]

... but my old brain is probably too loaded with trivia to find room for that.

This brings up the fundamental question that underlies the entire discussion;

What makes a fact "trivial".

Why is knowing the capital of a neighboring country as important as knowing the capital of neighboring province or state? Is knowing the capital of Canada going to be any more useful than knowing the roster of the 2013 Boston Red Sox? Both are facts. They seem equally useful, objectively. I know the capital of Canada without looking, I don't know the Sox roster. Clearly I took the time to learn one and not the other. Does that make Red Sox fans who don't know Ottawa necessarily ignorant?

Look, let's not pretend that Canada is some dynamic hotbed of political activity. They are not a volatile superpower. Humans pay attention to things that move, it's an evolutionary tendency. The boulder is not going to stand up and attack you, but the movement in the bushes next to it might be game, or a predator, so watch that. Canada, sorry to say, is a boulder, It's big, but short of being pushed down a hill, it's not going to do a lot. You can count on it being stable.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Great thread guys!

Surely in the "city vs state/province" thingy, are not context and location important? When I lived in Montreal, if I said I was going to Quebec, everyone knew it was the City. When I lived in Toronto, if I said I was going to Quebec, the great majority of my listeners would assume I meant the Province.

And, don't forget it's the Grey Cup tomorrow. (All you "Americans" can do your own Googling).

 

[Mudcat]

Just generally following the politics of a neighbor like Canada, it would be difficult to not know its capital.

Ah, I see the problem now. I don't follow politics, it's a dreadfully dull subject and I have enough on my plate right without worrying about events in another country. I have three jobs, I'm a full time student, and I take care of my mom... My hands, and my head, are already full.

 

[GlennB]

This brings up the fundamental question that underlies the entire discussion;

What makes a fact "trivial".

I'd take a stab at "A fact that is of little or no practical use".

Knowing the colour system for wiring a British plug could be used in a trivia quiz, but it's of great practical use if you want to wire a plug. Knowing who won the 1965 FA Cup is of no use except in a trivia quiz.

I'm a trivia geek, but I can't pretend it's at all 'clever'. It's just the outcome of having a retentive brain and exposure to vast amounts of varied 'stuff'. I have a head full of crap. An SF or sports geek might know a damn sight more trivia than I do, but for some reason my knowing the capital of Morocco is deemed more worthy in the opinion of some? Bah.

 

[Rat]

I'm a trivia geek, but I can't pretend it's at all 'clever'. It's just the outcome of having a retentive brain and exposure to vast amounts of varied 'stuff'. I have a head full of crap. An SF or sports geek might know a damn sight more trivia than I do, but for some reason my knowing the capital of Morocco is deemed more worthy in the opinion of some? Bah.

If I have particular weak points, they would be sport and 'celebrities', but that still doesn't mean that I don't know anything. I can't decide what the sport equivalent of not knowing the capital of Canada would be. I mean, I can name most English or Scottish soccer teams, and NFL teams. I can name a few competitors in most sports. The names of celebrities are usually familiar to me, even if I don't know exactly what they do.

 

[MikeG]

I contend that it is virtually impossible for any US citizen to not have been exposed to the fact that Ottowa is Canada's capital multiple times during their life. Of course I can't prove that, but I suspect few will contradict my assertion.

The question is, therefore, why would you not retain this knowledge? What is it about someone's personal view of the world that says "this is irrelevant, I don't need to know it"? This is what I am struggling with...the wilful categorisation of whole classes of information as useless. Why the category "anything outside my state" is one of those categories is something I'll never understand, however many times, and how vehemently, it is explained.

To those who think that foreign affairs are irrelevant to their lives....... maybe this is why your leaders can lead you sleep-walking into ridiculous foreign wars which are none of the US' business. If you can't hold your politicians to account on foreign affairs because you have no knowledge or interest, then your right to complain when they draft your children and send them off with a gun in their hand to fight and die in far off lands, is reduced to close to zero in my view.

 

[Jorghnassen]

How did a thread about a silly video turn into a silly argument about nomenclature. Let me put it back on track:

Ottawa, by the way. Awesome city.

Sounds like you either haven't been there at all or just haven't been there long enough. The only awesome thing about the city if the Rideau Canal in winter.

 

[theprestige]

(All you "Americans" can do your own Googling).

I think you're supposed to call us "USians", in case someone gets confused about which nationality you mean.

 

[joesixpack]

I contend that it is virtually impossible for any US citizen to not have been exposed to the fact that Ottowa is Canada's capital multiple times during their life. Of course I can't prove that, but I suspect few will contradict my assertion.

Yes of course this is true. It is taught in grade school

The question is, therefore, why would you not retain this knowledge? What is it about someone's personal view of the world that says "this is irrelevant, I don't need to know it"? This is what I am struggling with...the wilful categorisation of whole classes of information as useless. Why the category "anything outside my state" is one of those categories is something I'll never understand, however many times, and how vehemently, it is explained.

No one consciously decides to forget something. It just happens because of disuse. No one normally needs to know this fact, so it gets pushed out by all the other things going on a most people's lives.

While you struggle with the "willful categorization" of a class of information as "useless", you are failing to prove why this isolated fact is useful. To anyone, let alone the typical American.

And furthermore, you seem to be enamored of the unjustly extrapolated belief that Americans are, one, nearly universally ignorant of the capital of Canada, and two, that it is an accurate yardstick by which to measure their understanding of world events. As far as I can tell, neither one of those conclusions is justified. This seems to be little more than "Americas-got-ignorance" moral panic.

To those who think that foreign affairs are irrelevant to their lives....... maybe this is why your leaders can lead you sleep-walking into ridiculous foreign wars which are none of the US' business. If you can't hold your politicians to account on foreign affairs, because you have no knowledge or interest, then your right to complain when they draft your children and send them off with a gun in their hand to fight and die in far off lands is reduced to close to zero, in my view.

You forgot to say "Sheeple"