Is Not Knowing the Capital of Canada a Problem?

[blutoski]

I agree.

Remember this section of discussion was about whether Americans giving "Quebec" as the capital of Canada is as bad as a Canadian giving "Florida" as the capital of the US. Travis contended that Florida was a state, not a city, so the Florida mistake was worse. I contend that since Quebec is a province, not a city, the mistakes are equivalent (and by implication the argument is humorously ironic).

Interesting, I hadn't thought of it that way.

I think Quebec (the province) is a very high profile part of Canada because it's the least representative portion, ironically. I remember reading a ****** Heinlein novel when I was a teenager where Quebec was an independent country called The Quebec Free State. This was plausible at the time because Quebec had been pitching for independence from Canada for two decades by the time it was published.

So it's interesting that perhaps one of the best foreign-recognizable Canadian regions is also the one that considers itself the least Canadian. Well... maybe second to the First Nations.

 

[theprestige]

In this thread, I've learned that the reason why Americans don't know things like what's the capital of Canada is that they only retain information that has any advantage to them. For an American to remember something, he has to gain something by it.

Which sort of scares me.

Sounds like you learned the wrong lesson.

Heh.

I actually retain lots of information that gains me nothing. The capital of Canada just doesn't happen to be near the top of that list. And I don't see a problem with that.

Ryokan, do you believe that the capital of Canada is privileged information, that should rightly be retained, even if it has no practical value? Or do you, like me, believe that when it comes to the vast amounts of trivial information I've retained, the inclusion or exclusion of any particular piece of it is not particularly problematic?

 

[LashL]

Much like Quebec is a province, not a city (I believe its capital is Montreal).

ETA: I'm wrong, it's Quebec City.

You're right that Quebec is a province and Quebec City is a city. Much like New York is a state and New York City is a city.

 

[LashL]

Colloquially it is often simply called "Quebec".

No, it isn't. Nobody here refers to Quebec City as the province of Quebec, just as nobody here refers to New York City as the state of New York.

 

[blutoski]

My bad; I was counting Alaska and Russia twice each.

Hey, people can consider anything they want, i'm just saying that methods vary.

American Samoa is technically US soil, and within a stone's throw of Japan, Phillipines, Australia, all sorts of countries. Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands are close to a hodgepodge of Caribbean and Central/South American countries. "Neighbours" is all pretty vague.

I'm not disappointed Americans are challenged with keeping track of who their 'neighbours' are. They've really spread themselves out.

 

[Foolmewunz]

More or less. In common usage, they pronounce it "Keybek" or call it mon pays.
There: now you're practically habitants.

Ummm, no. "Mon pays" would refer to the province. No one refers to their city as their country. "Pays" means country, and Quebecois(e) will refer to the Province as a country to make a point.

The discussion of whether a French Canadian will say "Quebec" or "Ville de Quebec" is kind of moot since most of them are in the Province of Quebec and saying "I'm going to Quebec" would actually only have one possible meaning. But they alternate. Sometimes they'll include "Ville de" and sometimes they won't. The hockey team was not the Ville De Quebec Remparts. It was the Quebec Remparts. And everyone in the province knew where they played.

I am not, repeat NOT, the exceptional American who knows this stuff about my neighboring country. I lived there for a decade, specifically in Montreal.

 

[joesixpack]

No, it isn't.

Really? Never? Perhaps you should look up the word "Colloquial"

I can assure you that it HAS, in fact, happened.

ETA:Oh, i see you edited your remark to make it "true". Guess what? No one here has suggested people call the City of Quebec "The Province of Quebec". Nice goalpost shift.

 

[joesixpack]

I am not, repeat NOT, the exceptional American who knows this stuff about my neighboring country. I lived there for a decade, specifically in Montreal.

You mean The City of Montreal?

 

[Foolmewunz]

No, it isn't. Nobody here refers to Quebec City as the province of Quebec, just as nobody here refers to New York City as the state of New York.

You don't know New Yorkers who call themselves New Yorkers, but who mean that they're from the city and not the state? You must not know many. "NewYorkGuy" doesn't mean he's from Tarrytown, I'm pretty sure.

And many Canadians refer to the USA as "America". In formal writing or in news articles, they'll often lead with "U.S." or "U.S.A." but the text very often then slips over into the use of "America" or "American". I found twelve such articles in a quick Google of the Star and the Montreal Gazette. If you actually only know people who use US or USA, I wonder what they use for an adjective. There is none other than "American" that I've come across.

 

[LashL]

Google the phrase "I went to visit Quebec" (with quotes around it) and you will see that it is frequently (though not universally) used in reference to the City of Quebec rather than the province of the same name.

Oh, how entertaining, argumentum ad google. In real life, though, I live here - I don't have to "google" up nonsense posted by morons to figure it out.

 

[LashL]

You don't know New Yorkers who call themselves New Yorkers, but who mean that they're from the city and not the state? You must not know many. "NewYorkGuy" doesn't mean he's from Tarrytown, I'm pretty sure.

And many Canadians refer to the USA as "America". In formal writing or in news articles, they'll often lead with "U.S." or "U.S.A." but the text very often then slips over into the use of "America" or "American". I found twelve such articles in a quick Google of the Star and the Montreal Gazette. If you actually only know people who use US or USA, I wonder what they use for an adjective. There is none other than "American" that I've come across.

As previously mentioned, Canadians do not typically call the U.S. "America" at all. I would not be surprised if a few Canadians of lesser intellect might adopt the typical U.S. language on the point, but Canadians do not generally do so. Above the 49th parallel, the U.S. is typically called the U.S. or "the states"; its inhabitants are often referred to as "Americans" but that is not the subject matter under discussion at the moment.

 

[tyr_13]

No, it isn't. Nobody here refers to Quebec City as the province of Quebec, just as nobody here refers to New York City as the state of New York.

I say I'm from 'New York' and people almost always assume I'm talking about NYC. Oddly the only people who don't assume this are people in upstate New York, and if your actually in New York state and say you're from 'New York' you probably do mean the city.

Didn't I make a joke recently about pretending to think the capital of Canada is Toronto?

It's important to know where to bomb. I'm very much kidding, don't get me fired!

 

[LashL]

You don't know New Yorkers who call themselves New Yorkers, but who mean that they're from the city and not the state? You must not know many. "NewYorkGuy" doesn't mean he's from Tarrytown, I'm pretty sure.

This strikes me as a bit silly, Foolmewunz, and a bit out of character for you. Maybe I'm just missing something, but New Yorkers (whether referrring to the city or the state) can legitimately call themselves New Yorkers, but I would think that it is incumbent upon them to make the distinction between the city or state if it is relevant to the discussion.

If the distinction is not relevant to the discussion, who cares?

 

[joesixpack]

Oh, how entertaining, argumentum ad google. In real life, though, I live here - I don't have to "google" up nonsense posted by morons to figure it out.

Yes, whatever you do don't admit that people actually DO sometimes say "Quebec" when they mean the city and not the province. And make sure you dismiss any evidence by calling it argumentum ad Google and refusing to look at it. It's always surprising what people dig their heels in on. For you it's about not being wrong in a discussion of what people sometimes say in casual conversation.

But more importantly, and more to the point, why is knowing the capital of Canada an indication of depth and breadth of education? And is there a problem with not knowing it?

 

[LashL]

I say I'm from 'New York' and people almost always assume I'm talking about NYC.

It appears that the people who assume such are poorly educated and geographically challenged. I would never in a thousand years interpret "I'm from New York" as meaning "I'm from New York City".

 

[joesixpack]

It appears that the people who assume such are poorly educated and geographically challenged. I would never in a thousand years interpret "I'm from New York" as meaning "I'm from New York City".

Your refusal to allow for the flexibility of language must leave you confused quite frequently. Context often provides clues to help sort out the natural ambiguity of English usage. I'm often impressed by non-native speakers ability to adapt to it, so I know it's not impossible to do.

 

[Foolmewunz]

As previously mentioned, Canadians do not typically call the U.S. "America" at all. I would not be surprised if a few Canadians of lesser intellect might adopt the typical U.S. language on the point, but Canadians do not generally do so. Above the 49th parallel, the U.S. is typically called the U.S. or "the states"; its inhabitants are often referred to as "Americans" but that is not the subject matter under discussion at the moment.

This strikes me as insulting. I'm referring to people I've known for decades, the editors of the Gazette and Star, and people I encounter regularly. Which of those are you referring to as having "lesser intellect"?

This strikes me as a bit silly, Foolmewunz, and a bit out of character for you. Maybe I'm just missing something, but New Yorkers (whether referrring to the city or the state) can legitimately call themselves New Yorkers, but I would think that it is incumbent upon them to make the distinction between the city or state if it is relevant to the discussion.

If the distinction is not relevant to the discussion, who cares?

Silly? Possibly. I was trying to make sense out of your argument because no one was saying that anyone called a city a province (or a state). They simply have the same name and are preceded or proceeded by "ville de" and "city", respectively. But EVERYONE with any knowledge of either location knows that there are both cities and states/provinces going by those names, so if there's any doubt, one asks. Meh? I always type "NYC". It's clearer and easier to type.

But this is a digression, and it's not really important.

 

[LashL]

Yes, whatever you do don't admit that people actually DO sometimes say "Quebec" when they mean the city and not the province.

Yes, very stupid people might say that. Admittedly, this country has a few stupid people.

 

[LashL]

I'm referring to people I've known for decades, the editors of the Gazette and Star, and people I encounter regularly.

I think we're talking about two different things here; I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see them to refer to U.S. natives as "Americans" but I would be very surprised to see them refer to the U.S. as "America".

I could be wrong, of course, and would be happy to be shown to be wrong if that is the case.

 

[joesixpack]

Yes, very stupid people might say that. Admittedly, this country has a few stupid people.

The criteria with which you judge intelligence in others is seriously flawed.