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Heeeeeeere's Obamacare!

Neally said:
No miracle need. It's not her fault, not Obama's fault. It's the GOP's fault. Life is simple when you use partisan logic to explain everything.
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I'm a big Obama supporter, but I'll be the first to say that he royally screwed the pooch on this one. So you won't see me defending him on this debacle.

That said, I still think the ACA is a good law and will ultimately be good for the country. One crappy website (which is being fixed) and some idiotic political missteps by Obama (who isn't up for re-election) don't change that fact.

What the GOP is at fault for is suddenly acting like a poorly designed website means that the United States can no longer solve problems; therefore, the solution they propose is... who knows? They don't propose solutions anymore, they just want to employ a scorched earth policy for all I can tell.
 
MattusMaximus said:
That said, I still think the ACA is a good law and will ultimately be good for the country. One crappy website (which is being fixed) and some idiotic political missteps by Obama (who isn't up for re-election) don't change that fact.
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That's not a fact, Mattus, it's an opinion.

And what if that opinion is wrong, Mattus? What if the web site problems are merely symptoms of a more fundamental dysfunction in the administration, the law, or both? Because the stories coming out don't just point to crappy coding, they point to deeply flawed management all the way to the top.

This isn't the last thing Obama will screw up. Hubris is followed by Nemesis. The ACA itself can still be wrecked.
 
Ziggurat said:
Let's not forget the continuing security vulnerabilities either.
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Or accounting problems in code yet to be written.
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politic...ment-system-still-unbuilt-official-testifies/

Seven weeks after the launch of the new federal health insurance marketplace, “30 to 40 percent” of the online system still has not been built or tested, including the critical component that processes tax credit payments to insurers, a top Obama administration official said today.

“Healthcare.gov, the online application, verification, determination, plan compare, getting enrolled, generating an enrollment transaction, that’s 100 percent there,” said Henry Chao, the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services project manager in charge of HealthCare.gov, told a House panel.

“There is the back office systems, the accounting systems, the payment systems. They still need to” be built, Chao said.
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I hope they can accept monthly personal payments via credit card.
 
MattusMaximus said:
That said, I still think the ACA is a good law and will ultimately be good for the country. One crappy website (which is being fixed) and some idiotic political missteps by Obama (who isn't up for re-election) don't change that fact.
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It will be great for some, horrible for others, and some won't make much difference. "Great for the country" very doubtful. Doesn't fix the the main problems with escalating health care cost in the country, but spreads the costs around. This can't be fixed with any sort of insurance manipulation.

What the GOP is at fault for is suddenly acting like a poorly designed website means that the United States can no longer solve problems; therefore, the solution they propose is... who knows? They don't propose solutions anymore, they just want to employ a scorched earth policy for all I can tell.
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See, didn't I say that partisan logic makes life simple? "The GOP just wants people to die...they want to destroy the country...block all the great reforms...offer no solutions..."
 
Ziggurat said:
That's not a fact, Mattus, it's an opinion.
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Fair enough. Just as you have your opinion.

And what if that opinion is wrong, Mattus? What if the web site problems are merely symptoms of a more fundamental dysfunction in the administration, the law, or both? Because the stories coming out don't just point to crappy coding, they point to deeply flawed management all the way to the top.
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You're right. It's hopeless. Let's just give up... there's obviously no way forward... no possible solutions... America's best days are behind it... we're screwed forever... woe is us...

Oh, wait. That's just Republican defeatism talking :rolleyes:

This isn't the last thing Obama will screw up. Hubris is followed by Nemesis. The ACA itself can still be wrecked.
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You seem to be confusing the ACA with the website. Seems to me the ACA, as implemented prior to the website troubles, was working just fine. And once the website issues get fixed (they're already getting better, based upon the reports from many here), what will you complain about then?
 
Neally said:
It will be great for some, horrible for others, and some won't make much difference. "Great for the country" very doubtful. Doesn't fix the the main problems with escalating health care cost in the country, but spreads the costs around. This can't be fixed with any sort of insurance manipulation.

See, didn't I say that partisan logic makes life simple? "The GOP just wants people to die...they want to destroy the country...block all the great reforms...offer no solutions..."
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Ok, smart guy...

What's your (or the GOP's) alternative to the ACA? And no, "repeal it" doesn't count.
 
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MattusMaximus said:
Ok, smart guy...

What's your (or the GOP's) alternative to the ACA? And no, "repeal it" doesn't count.
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Since this isn't a thread about health care reform in the US, but Obamacare, I won't derail the topic. Suffice to say that there are multiple factors at work and a lot of enriched interests with well funded lobbies that want things to stay the same. Again, this won't be fixed by fiddling around with insurance polices.

The fact that you are unaware of the many other solutions from outside the left is testament to your partisan mindset.
 
MattusMaximus said:
You're right. It's hopeless. Let's just give up... there's obviously no way forward... no possible solutions... America's best days are behind it... we're screwed forever... woe is us...

Oh, wait. That's just Republican defeatism talking :rolleyes:
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I have not advocated defeatism, nor have I suggested that nothing can be done. I am merely making a prediction about what I think THIS specific administration will do (or fail to do). If my predictions come to pass, that does not dictate what happens beyond that. That does not preclude the possibility of some future solution. Hell, it doesn't even necessitate that a solution come from the Republicans. This administration will only last for three more years, no matter what happens.

But optimism about this administration is not itself a solution either. If I am right, then the problem cannot be fixed by looking on the bright side, by refusing to criticize. And if I am wrong, it's not because of defeatism, I'm just simply wrong. What I predict would be bad, but it would not be the end of the world, it would not be irreparable, and I never suggested it was.

You seem to be confusing the ACA with the website. Seems to me the ACA, as implemented prior to the website troubles, was working just fine.
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That claim doesn't withstand even the most basic scrutiny. The ACA has not been implemented in anything close to full yet. Its real tests lie ahead of it.

And once the website issues get fixed (they're already getting better, based upon the reports from many here), what will you complain about then?
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Potentially, quite a lot. We could be facing an adverse selection death spiral, for example.

Maybe my predictions will be wrong. Maybe everything will go swimmingly. But please, do me the courtesy of making THAT the point of debate between us, and dispense with accusations that I'm just "complaining". This is a substantive disagreement, Mattus. Treat it as such.
 
At a second table, the secretary met Carmen Salero who was trying to sign up online. As the secretary and Salero made small talk, CBS4′s Brian Andrews noticed the site crash on the lap top in front of them.


“The screen says I’m sorry but the system is temporarily down,” Andrews pointed out. “Uh oh,” responded the secretary. “That happens every day,” said Salerno, “it must mean a lot of people are on there trying to get coverage.”
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Source.

Republican DDOS hackers must be putting in some overtime.
 
*Gasp!* Good news on the Obamacare front!

Sorry to break up the doom and gloom party, folks :D

Finally, some good news for Democrats about ObamaCare (no, really)
... A handful of polls this week found that despite the horrible ObamaCare rollout, there was a silver lining: Americans' views on the law itself have remained virtually unchanged, and voters are still willing to give the administration time to fix its mistakes. At the same time, there are reports that enrollment in health care plans via state-based exchange marketplaces are surging, even as the federal marketplace, Healthcare.gov, remains stuck in tech support limbo. ...

... In short, Americans are showing more patience than the lawmakers and talking heads who have declared the law an unmitigated disaster. After all, the exchange marketplace is barely six weeks old — and it's now showing signs of improvement. ...
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And it's more than just polling. It seems that enrollment among many states is really starting to take off:
... Last week, the administration reported that only 106,000 people had enrolled in new health care plans in October, well off the target of 500,000. Yet there are reports that enrollments are starting to pick up the pace.

As the Los Angeles Times reported Tuesday, states with their own health care systems "are on track to hit enrollment targets for 2014 because of a sharp increase in November." Though California only enrolled 31,000 people last month, it had already doubled that total through the first two weeks of November, according to the Times.

"Several other states, including Connecticut and Kentucky, are outpacing their enrollment estimates, even as states that depend on the federal website lag far behind. In Minnesota, enrollment in the second half of October ran at triple the rate of the first half, officials said. Washington state is also on track to easily exceed its October enrollment figure, officials said." [Los Angeles Times]

Fourteen states built their own exchange marketplaces, and their systems have fared far better than the federal government's. About three-quarters of all October enrollments came through state-run exchanges.

And the feds' marketplace, too, may be finally getting on its feet. While only 27,000 people signed up for coverage through Healthcare.gov in October, another 23,000 had already done so by mid-November, according to the New York Times. ...
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In the prediction thread, I had projected 200,000+ enrollment for November; perhaps I should set my aims a bit higher?
 
Meanwhile in Colorado a dog, "Baxter" gets an Obamacare policy!

The really good news is that he gets to keep his vet!

Who says it isn't working.
 
How many are old and sick? How many are young and healthy?

That's what matters more than raw numbers. Assuming those numbers aren't BS like all the other figures they throw around.
 
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