9/11 No Planers who claim no planes struck the WTC, and think all the video is fake

The "no planes" segment of the truth movement, is nothing more than a vagabond band of provocateurs. To "support" their claims, they consistently rely on the worst possible footage and then routinely, and intentionally, misquote eyewitness statements and misrepresent the evidence. Even Alex Jones doesn't endorse that group. (That's neither here, nor there, since he can always come back and say that he in fact does if it suits him later on). It's mostly a way of injecting more aggressive vitriol into the conversation. I saw that Ace Baker was mentioned earlier: he was on Ronald Weick's show and used an extremely unreliable, non-scientific method for advancing his claims: he super-imposed arrows over various frames of the footage and claimed that according to the placement of his arrows and the timing of the footage, that a plane should have been visible in the shot. It WAS. It was not taped from the best location to record the plane and the zoom of the particular footage he was using was wide-out. You actually could see the plane in that footage, it was merely a black dot--as it would be from that vantage point and focus.



EVERY Truther I have seen was a No Planer- nearly all of them doubt a plane crashed in PA or Washington. The WTC No Planers are also quite real, and are the best examples of the pure nuttiness of the Truther cult
 
True, it's also what orthodox truthers do too though. I was just viewing a thread in this very forum where cult members were continuing to contend that Larry Silverstein admitted to a controlled demolition of WTC7 in an interview ( the old "pull it" canard). They will twist and distort to push their anti-government agenda.

Funny enough there's actually a cult sect that contends there were no people in the towers either. They say that the footage was fake because some of the people hanging out of the windows don't look right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_EP4fZcYkY

Here's a fun comment left by a fanatic:



:eek: This is conspiracy occultism at it's worst. As depraved as the "truth" cult is, I don't think it gets much worse than that.

What we see here is the same formula for any 9/11 "truth" cult myth. They find delude themselves that they've found something that "doesn't look right" and then flood the internet with their delusions:

- hole in the pentagon isn't big enough...(where's the rest of the plane?)... must have been a missile shot by the government at their own building in broad daylight.
- the towers shouldn't be collapsing the way they are...must be a super duper top secret hi tech nano-thermite hushabomb controlled demolition.
- there isn't enough plane debri in shanksville...must have been blown to pieces in the air.
- the phone calls from the planes don't sound right, the people aren't scared enough, they sound "too calm," and the altitudes are too high... they must be paid actors for the NWO gov. made to sound like the missing people with voice morphing technology.
- the plane hitting the towers doesn't look right...must be military, not an airliner
- the plane is moving too fast for such a low altitude...must be fake.

Amazing. I've seen that video.

I also noticed the uploader is saying that Edna Cintron was one of these holographic people.

I can remember the Truth using her years ago to say the fires weren't hot enough, because she was near the impact point, waving.

So she was real back then, now she was a fake, a hologram.

It all makes sense now! :rolleyes:
 
Does anyone know what the purpose of a no planer at the WTC asking this question?

"What exerted more force, the plane or the tower?"

I'm not even sure if that's even an answerable question, as no planers tend to be window licking idiots.

But if there is a sufficient answer to that question, can someone help me out? I suspect that the individual asks this question as a strawman tactic to try and get someone to say "I don't know" so that they can claim they are right.
 
Does anyone know what the purpose of a no planer at the WTC asking this question?

"What exerted more force, the plane or the tower?"

I'm not even sure if that's even an answerable question, as no planers tend to be window licking idiots.

But if there is a sufficient answer to that question, can someone help me out? I suspect that the individual asks this question as a strawman tactic to try and get someone to say "I don't know" so that they can claim they are right.

They exerted exactly the same amount of force in opposite directions. It's a meaningless question that does nothing but show they don't understand physics.
 
Does anyone know what the purpose of a no planer at the WTC asking this question?

"What exerted more force, the plane or the tower?"

I'm not even sure if that's even an answerable question, as no planers tend to be window licking idiots.

But if there is a sufficient answer to that question, can someone help me out? I suspect that the individual asks this question as a strawman tactic to try and get someone to say "I don't know" so that they can claim they are right.

By Newtonian mechanics, the forces are exactly equal and opposite. Same as when you fire a bullet at a paper target, the paper exerts the same force on the bullet as the bullet exerts on the paper. So the bullet should bounce off, right?;)

Likewise, a horse can never pull a wagon. No matter how hard the horse pulls on the wagon, the wagon pulls equally hard on the horse! :eye-poppi And Superman can't stop the crook's getaway car by standing in front of it and stretching out his arm in front of the car while the tires spin futilely. Oh, wait - that is true!:cool:
 
By Newtonian mechanics, the forces are exactly equal and opposite. Same as when you fire a bullet at a paper target, the paper exerts the same force on the bullet as the bullet exerts on the paper. So the bullet should bounce off, right?;)

Likewise, a horse can never pull a wagon. No matter how hard the horse pulls on the wagon, the wagon pulls equally hard on the horse! :eye-poppi And Superman can't stop the crook's getaway car by standing in front of it and stretching out his arm in front of the car while the tires spin futilely. Oh, wait - that is true!:cool:

So essentially, it's basically a no planer attempting to use a technically incorrect because it's incomplete form of physics to try and prove their absurd claims?
 
So essentially, it's basically a no planer attempting to use a technically incorrect because it's incomplete form of physics to try and prove their absurd claims?

Basically, yes - but it's not necessarily true that they are doing this deceitfully. It's just that they have no understanding of physics and have no business arguing the physics of 9-11. Many people have mistaken notions of Newtonian Mechanics. Let's go back to the bullet and the paper target. Now let's set up three targets at the same distance:

1. First target is the paper target.
2. Second target is a sheet of wood.
3. Third target is a thick block of wood.

You fire one round each at each target. Obviously, the energy and momentum are the same for each, but is the force the same?

Bullet #1 easily penetrates the paper target and is found buried in the sand berm backstop.

Bullet #2 penetrates the sheet of wood but is found just beyond it lying on the ground.

Bullet #3 penetrates into the thick wood block but instead of exiting, it gets embedded in the wood.

Was the force the same for all three, or different? Some might guess that since the energy and momentum are the same, so is the force. Others might guess that since the bullet easily penetrated the paper target, it exerted the most force.

Actually, the bullet exerted the least force on the paper target. Just enough to penetrate the paper. In return, the paper exerted an equal force on the bullet and slowed it ever-so-slightly. The bullet exerted the greatest force on the wood block, enough to penetrate it deeply, and the block exerted enough force on the bullet to bring it to a halt, and probably, to grossly distort the bullet. The sheet of wood falls in the middle.

Ite, physics lesson est. :);)

(Oh, and Steven Jones and others with science credentials who misuse Newtonian Mechanics are deceitful little [expletive deleted]s. Except for Judy Wood, who is a lunatic.)
 
effectively its 9/11 truthers grossly misunderstanding the laws of motion whilst claiming they were 'broken' that day.
 
Basically, yes - but it's not necessarily true that they are doing this deceitfully. It's just that they have no understanding of physics and have no business arguing the physics of 9-11. Many people have mistaken notions of Newtonian Mechanics. Let's go back to the bullet and the paper target. Now let's set up three targets at the same distance:

1. First target is the paper target.
2. Second target is a sheet of wood.
3. Third target is a thick block of wood.

You fire one round each at each target. Obviously, the energy and momentum are the same for each, but is the force the same?

Bullet #1 easily penetrates the paper target and is found buried in the sand berm backstop.

Bullet #2 penetrates the sheet of wood but is found just beyond it lying on the ground.

Bullet #3 penetrates into the thick wood block but instead of exiting, it gets embedded in the wood.

Was the force the same for all three, or different? Some might guess that since the energy and momentum are the same, so is the force. Others might guess that since the bullet easily penetrated the paper target, it exerted the most force.

Actually, the bullet exerted the least force on the paper target. Just enough to penetrate the paper. In return, the paper exerted an equal force on the bullet and slowed it ever-so-slightly. The bullet exerted the greatest force on the wood block, enough to penetrate it deeply, and the block exerted enough force on the bullet to bring it to a halt, and probably, to grossly distort the bullet. The sheet of wood falls in the middle.

Ite, physics lesson est. :);)

(Oh, and Steven Jones and others with science credentials who misuse Newtonian Mechanics are deceitful little [expletive deleted]s. Except for Judy Wood, who is a lunatic.)

Thank you, I've always wondered about Newtonian physics and why every conspiracy shepherd seems to cling to it. I only took high school physics and that was over 5 years ago so I don't remember much. I do remember trying to debunk the Newtonian physics, looking it up, and thinking to myself "this is wrong but I can't completely explain why." With your help now I can :)
 
1. First target is the paper target.
2. Second target is a sheet of wood.
3. Third target is a thick block of wood.

You fire one round each at each target. Obviously, the energy and momentum are the same for each, but is the force the same?

Bullet #1 easily penetrates the paper target and is found buried in the sand berm backstop.

Bullet #2 penetrates the sheet of wood but is found just beyond it lying on the ground.

Bullet #3 penetrates into the thick wood block but instead of exiting, it gets embedded in the wood.

Was the force the same for all three, or different? Some might guess that since the energy and momentum are the same, so is the force. Others might guess that since the bullet easily penetrated the paper target, it exerted the most force.

Actually, the bullet exerted the least force on the paper target. Just enough to penetrate the paper. In return, the paper exerted an equal force on the bullet and slowed it ever-so-slightly. The bullet exerted the greatest force on the wood block, enough to penetrate it deeply, and the block exerted enough force on the bullet to bring it to a halt, and probably, to grossly distort the bullet. The sheet of wood falls in the middle.

Ite, physics lesson est. :);)

(Oh, and Steven Jones and others with science credentials who misuse Newtonian Mechanics are deceitful little [expletive deleted]s. Except for Judy Wood, who is a lunatic.)

To elaborate on this point a bit:

9/11 "theorists" will sometimes flail on about the "cartoon hole" made by the airplane, the apparent "melting into the building" of the plane and the lack of aircraft debris on the impact side.

So a thought experiment. We'll shoot a paper plate and a soda can with a low power bb gun, a slightly higher power pellet rifle and a .22 rifle. The paper plate, in all three cases, will have a hole roughly the size of the projectile, but the hole will be more ragged from the bb, with tearing of paper. The pellet rifle hole will have some ripping around the edges, but the .22 will look almost like a paper punch hole in comparison. I've done this at the range with .38 and .357, and the difference is very clear.

The soda can will have a non-penetrating dent from the bb pistol and the bb will bounce back. The pellet will penetrate, but the aluminum will rip, not leaving a profile hole. The .22 will leave a clear hole punched in the aluminum, and if you were to scale the test even further to fire a .223 rifle round at a soda can the resulting hole is extremely neat.

The reason for the difference is how much of the target material is brought into play resisting the force of the projectile, and is in part a function of time.

The WTC impact hole was clearly in the shape of the plane, with some amount of structure bending inward around the outside of the hole. The conspiracy theorists point to various characteristics of the impact and see contradictions with their expectations, but the contradictions are between reality and their individual knowledge and experience bases. Also, the characteristics of the impact are all consistent with one another, rather than in conflict.
 
As I wrote in another thread: I heard on fakeologist.com that the September Clues guys and gals (and many on Cluesforum I assume) believe ALL 9/11 images are fake! That's even more extreme than my view of that event.

Here is a better explanation than September Clues:

9/11 - The Great American Psy-Opera by Ace Baker: 07 - The Key -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rml2TL5N8ds
 
That's even more extreme than my view of that event.

And... what? Do you feel threatened by this, as if perhaps your role is being usurped?

If you're worried that your own imaginings won't appear crazy enough when compared to their swivel-eyed yardstick, I think you can rest assured you don't have particular cause for concern.
 
And... what? Do you feel threatened by this, as if perhaps your role is being usurped?

If you're worried that your own imaginings won't appear crazy enough when compared to their swivel-eyed yardstick, I think you can rest assured you don't have particular cause for concern.

I have changed my view many times, from believing the official story, to more and more extreme conspiracy theories. But that basically all photos and videos of the 9/11 attacks are fake seems very doubtful to me. I think the videos were real, even the live ones, and that they just added computer graphics planes. Only a few seconds delay for the live videos.
 

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