Continuation Part Six: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

Status
Not open for further replies.
Your right Bill, there was also talk about the State being named "Jefferson" I think they really screwed the pooch naming it Washington, because most of the world when they hear Washington, they think of DC. Never mind DC is three thousand miles away and is really just a city.


Isn't Washington State also just a (smaller but less gang-riddled) city plus a few trees and hills?

*ducks and covers*

(For the avoidance of doubt, that was what might loosely be termed a "satirical exaggeration for effect, intended only for comedic purposes" :p)
 
Every quarter, the kids with good grades get to wear red, white and blue striped sashes. There aren't that many pictures because it's so commonplace.

My daughter recently graduated with honors from a U.S. state university (cum laude, Phi Beta Kappa, et al). I am not aware of occasions when they would or could be photographed wearing something distinctive that would satisfy Machiavelli that they were honor students, except at commencement time as they graduate. Maybe in Europe there are lots of occasions to assemble or dress up in academic garb; that is not the case in the U.S.

I looked at University of Washington's admissions statistics and see that half of all high school students with a Grade Point Average of 3.76 (that is a AAAB average) who applied for admission last year to University of Washington were rejected for admission. That tells me Knox was a very strong student when she was admitted to her university two years before coming to Italy for her junior-year abroad.

What is really noteworthy is Machiavelli's repeated effort to question that Knox was what we Americans refer to as an honor student. His desire is to undermine her and cast aspersions on her to make her fit better into his scenario that she was at her residence the night Kerscher was murdered and that she participated in (and orchestrated) it.

Machiavelli is very sharp and able to construct scenarios based on false evidence. He really should look at the physical evidence that shows that Guede broke into the residence through Filomena's window and alone killed Kerscher within minutes of arriving home. But he won't do that because he is not looking to critically examine the evidence. He is protecting Mignini and Stefanoni.
 
Last edited:
By the way, plaudits to Kaosium for his excellent, informative, exhaustive(!) and myth-busting piece on C/V, Stefanoni and the elusive negative controls.
 
Isn't Washington State also just a (smaller but less gang-riddled) city plus a few trees and hills?

*ducks and covers*

(For the avoidance of doubt, that was what might loosely be termed a "satirical exaggeration for effect, intended only for comedic purposes" :p)

Comic relief is always welcome.
 
I'm a little confused about the "honors" discussion to be honest.

And I thought it was pretty well-known (and confirmed) that Knox had made the "Dean's List" at UW for the quality of her studies and her general demeanour. In other words, in the period preceding her trip to Italy, Knox appears to have distinguished herself academically and as a student in general.

LondonJohn, in the U.S. a student who is on the university's Dean's List (high Grade Point Average) is an honor student and is referred to as an honor student.
 
When Amanda was charged the media raced to her social media page(s) and she had used the unfortunate moniker of "Foxy Knoxy" and there was no explanation of a youth soccer nickname. For the british and Italians Foxy has/had a different meaning than it has for me, which is just a good looking woman or man.

The FOA countered with honor student, goofy hippie chick late bloomer description. One key reason she had to be innocent was her background. The PGP then went on a search to find any and all indications that she wasn't so innocent after-all. They even stooped to believe and promote a Slog comment by some dungeons and dragons type about a prank on April Fools' Day. That prank then evolved into the rape prank. Peggy even contacted the guy by email.

I never liked the good girl no motive defense and believe that it engendered the other side getting into her sex life. Clearly the PLE promoted this and they should be sanctioned for doing that. This is an area where I disagree with Mach when he supports the release of this kind of crap to the media.

If people wish to keep this subject going and as part of that wish to accuse Mach of the pimp remark they should source it and show it. This and the Satanic Rite crap is kept alive my the PIP side. Mach will respond to attacks.

Rudy has been vilified not for the crime alone. People here wish to make him some ugly pariah that the girls would never consider being with, much less to have sex with. I don't see it that way. He was a good looking in-shape young man.

I think talking actual evidence from both sides would be far more interesting.
 
Isn't Washington State also just a (smaller but less gang-riddled) city plus a few trees and hills?

*ducks and covers*

(For the avoidance of doubt, that was what might loosely be termed a "satirical exaggeration for effect, intended only for comedic purposes" :p)

Off topic. Insulting. Stupid. Typical Pom attempted humor.

Obviously a banning offense. Or perhaps just walk the plank off the London Bridge.
 
Not only that, but the video of the evidence collection showed them behaving very much like they knew what the significance of the item would be before it had been tested.

Answer me this, Machiavelli: what are they talking about as they pass the clasp from hand to hand, shine a flashlight on it and point their fingers at it?

"Look, I can see Sollecito's DNA on it right there."​

I believe that Stefanoni did not travel from Rome to Perugia to collect the bra clasp and grandstand for the camera on the off chance that it might have Raffaele's DNA on it. I believe that there was no way it was going to come up clean by the time she read data from it in her lab. I believe that she wiped the hook with an article containing Raffaele's DNA.

But you now raise an interesting issue. Could it have been Napoleoni or one of her team who wiped the clasp before Stefanoni collected it? In addition to Raffaele's DNA, Stefanoni also found DNA of several other males on the clasp. Would that include police officer Finzi's DNA? He is the one who pulled a knife at random out of Raffaele's cutlery drawer and asked his colleague if the mean-looking carving knife would do.

Did Stefanoni find any female DNA (other than Meredith's) on the bra clasp?

P.S. - Remind me not to travel to Italy.
 
Last edited:
When Amanda was charged the media raced to her social media page(s) and she had used the unfortunate moniker of "Foxy Knoxy" and there was no explanation of a youth soccer nickname. For the british and Italians Foxy has/had a different meaning than it has for me, which is just a good looking woman or man.

The FOA countered with honor student, goofy hippie chick late bloomer description. One key reason she had to be innocent was her background. The PGP then went on a search to find any and all indications that she wasn't so innocent after-all. They even stooped to believe and promote a Slog comment by some dungeons and dragons type about a prank on April Fools' Day. That prank then evolved into the rape prank. Peggy even contacted the guy by email.

I never liked the good girl no motive defense and believe that it engendered the other side getting into her sex life. Clearly the PLE promoted this and they should be sanctioned for doing that. This is an area where I disagree with Mach when he supports the release of this kind of crap to the media.

If people wish to keep this subject going and as part of that wish to accuse Mach of the pimp remark they should source it and show it. This and the Satanic Rite crap is kept alive my the PIP side. Mach will respond to attacks.

Rudy has been vilified not for the crime alone. People here wish to make him some ugly pariah that the girls would never consider being with, much less to have sex with. I don't see it that way. He was a good looking in-shape young man.

I think talking actual evidence from both sides would be far more interesting.

While I agree with your overall message Grinder. It doesn't matter whether Amanda was an honor student or a slacker. It doesn't matter if Amanda was a super slut or the Virgin Mary. None of that is relevant On that we agree. If Mach wants to talk about the DNA, the digestion, the timeline..I'm up for that. But he won't.

As long as Machiavelli poses without a shred of evidence that Amanda was a sexual beast who would screw anything including an average looking (at best) Rudy Guede and that she was a loser who never attended classes and was just being a "party girl"...well, I'm going to answer. Mach is tossing garbage recklessly and someone has to clean it up.

Rudy Guede is a burglar and a murderer, that is his crime. Not his looks.

I think Mary yesterday posted that a couple of teenagers or college age kids were having sex on a train that she was on but she didn't get a good look at the boy until the next morning and she said he would never have gotten laid if the girl who she said was pretty had seen him in daylight.

Even ugly guys get laid once in a while so Rudy's looks are irrelevant except in light of the idea that Rudy was the guy Amanda was talking about when she said she saw the most beautiful black man she had ever seen. (this wasn't Rudy)

There is no evidence that Amanda had sex with Rudy. You just posted that Amanda only met Rudy two weeks before the murder. Amanda met Raffaele only a week before the murder and Amanda had spent every day with him from the day they met. When would she have had the time to get involved with Rudy?
 
Last edited:
By the way, plaudits to Kaosium for his excellent, informative, exhaustive(!) and myth-busting piece on C/V, Stefanoni and the elusive negative controls.

Thanks, LJ! :)

How is it that the contention Stefanoni was not forthcoming be disputed by defending her refusing to just give them the data and then claiming the independent court experts didn't look hard enough or ask specifically for everything?

Isn't that pretty much an admission she wasn't forthcoming? :confused:
 
While I agree with your overall message Grinder. It doesn't matter whether Amanda was an honor student or a slacker. It doesn't matter if Amanda was a super slut or the Virgin Mary. None of that is relevant On that we agree. If Mach wants to talk about the DNA, the digestion, the timeline..I'm up for that. But he won't.

If you and others would stop the pimp/Vogt/satanic/etc. posts directed at Mach and focus on other things maybe he would. He has responded to me about the compatible issue and maybe we could get more from him on other subjects. I agree with him about a certain poster's techniques.

As long as Machiavelli poses without a shred of evidence that Amanda was a sexual beast who would screw anything including an average looking (at best) Rudy Guede and that she was a loser who never attended classes and was just being a "party girl"...well, I'm going to answer. Mach is tossing garbage recklessly and someone has to clean it up.

Turn the other cheek -Convertens alteram maxillam - You missed answering the first 4 years it won't hurt now.

Rudy Guede is a burglar and a murderer, that is his crime. Not his looks.

I think Mary yesterday posted that a couple of teenagers or college age kids were having sex on a train that she was on but she didn't get a good look at the boy until the next morning and she said he would never have gotten laid if the girl who she said was pretty had seen him in daylight.

Even ugly guys get laid once in a while so Rudy's looks are irrelevant except in light of the idea that Rudy was the guy Amanda was talking about when she said she saw the most beautiful black man she had ever seen. (this wasn't Rudy)

Mary is a very shallow girl. I'm sure the boy was charming as all get out and being that I was on the same train I can tell you the girl was flat and had no shape to her legs.

You have no idea if it was Rudy or not. Do you think that she would have mentioned that Rudy was the one after the murder?

There is a reason that it wasn't Rudy but not that he wasn't good looking enough.

There is no evidence that Amanda had sex with Rudy. You just posted that Amanda only met Rudy two weeks before the murder. Amanda met Raffaele only a week before the murder and Amanda had spent every day with him from the day they met. When would she have had the time to get involved with Rudy?

The week before she met Raf for one. She was reported to have had sex with the boy from Rome to day she met him as she did with Raf. I really think the subject would be better left alone.

Convertens alteram maxillam
 
I believe that Stefanoni did not travel from Rome to Perugia to collect the bra clasp and grandstand for the camera on the off chance that it might have Raffaele's DNA on it. I believe that there was no way it was going to come up clean by the time she read data from it in her (dirty) lab. I believe that she wiped the hook with an article containing Raffaele's DNA.

And the other profiles came from the same source? As I understand it the video was streamed to lawyers in a van outside.

But you now raise an interesting issue. Could it have been Napoleoni or one of her team who wiped the clasp before Stefanoni collected it? In addition to Raffaele's DNA, Stefanoni also found DNA of several other males on the clasp. Would that include police officer Finzi's DNA? He is the one who pulled a knife at random out of Raffaele's cutlery drawer and asked his colleague if the mean-looking carving knife would do.

At that time they had Raf's shoe-prints and her confession. They were still waiting for all the other DNA to come in as proof. Someone killed Meredith but you think they were working to frame he by the 6th?

Did Stefanoni find any female DNA (other than Meredith's) on the bra clasp? (I assume all female members of Napoleoni's squad - including the woman described as looking like an "East German Borderguard" - have only female DNA.)

P.S. - Remind me not to travel to Italy.

Don't travel to Italy.
 
My daughter recently graduated with honors from a U.S. state university (cum laude, Phi Beta Kappa, et al). I am not aware of occasions when they would or could be photographed wearing something distinctive that would satisfy Machiavelli that they were honor students, except at commencement time as they graduate. Maybe in Europe there are lots of occasions to assemble or dress up in academic garb; that is not the case in the U.S.

I looked at University of Washington's admissions statistics and see that half of all high school students with a Grade Point Average of 3.76 (that is a AAAB average) who applied for admission last year to University of Washington were rejected for admission. That tells me Knox was a very strong student when she was admitted to her university two years before coming to Italy for her junior-year abroad.

What is really noteworthy is Machiavelli's repeated effort to question that Knox was what we Americans refer to as an honor student. His desire is to undermine her and cast aspersions on her to make her fit better into his scenario that she was at her residence the night Kerscher was murdered and that she participated in (and orchestrated) it.

Machiavelli is very sharp and able to construct scenarios based on false evidence. He really should look at the physical evidence that shows that Guede broke into the residence through Filomena's window and alone killed Kerscher within minutes of arriving home. But he won't do that because he is not looking to critically examine the evidence. He is protecting Mignini and Stefanoni.

I discussed about the physical evidence at the murder scene for years, I did that that from the beginning of my presence on Dempsey's blog. I discussed the evidence that show multiple perpetrators; different modus operandi on the scene; the evidence showing the break in was staged; I discussed about the bloody footprint; I discussed about the autopsy report.
They I got tired. I've said my opinions; should I repeat myself forever? I see many other issues topics developed meanwihile. It's ok for me to speak again about those topics, but it would be impossible to follow many topics at once.

As for Knox's being a honor student or not: the topic is brought in by someone else. It was another poster who claimed that being a 'honour student' should be somehow cause a withdrawal of my idea of girl who was basically following a interest in fun experiences rather than an academic one (in that period of her life).
I don't think the objection has a merit.
But I question in fact also what "honors student" means in the mind of the America speakers who claim it, because, if I have to make a parallel with the Italian university system (thus what my mentality refers to), I would assume that a core aspect would be the "study plan", the program. The main distinction in Italian universities is between students who are perfectly "in course" and those who are out of course (not as "structured" within the academic plan). Knox appears as a person who has drifted out of her academic plan, she was not sent there in agreement with her university, and not on a sctructured exchange plan.

This may only reflect the point of view of a person used to the relatively rigid mindset of Italian universities.
For students attending Italian universities, the marks they had at the high school have absolutely zero relevance and would be very strange that someone was called a "honor student" based on them; high school marks may concur to the admission criteria for some university courses, but it's not a university-based thing, it's for courses on national basis: there is no difference between universities, there are no universities with more selective admission critera than others. In Germany is the same.
And after all, it seems rather strange to me that the lifestyle of Amanda Knox in Perugia is thought as if she was the same person of when he was a 17-18 years old high school student.

But the point of view doesn't change anything. The whole topic about a "honor student" status awarded by a US university is irrelevant to the point. It doesn't affect my idea of Knox as a person who was "only living to pursue pleasure" (as Sollecito described her), and who would be ready to have sexual encounters with a person that fits the profile of Guede, despite she had also an intense relation with Sollecito. Also the other details that I mentioned fit the scenario. It's not that this "undermines" her: this is just the the person she was at that time; it may undermine later clichés which are attached preposterously to build a rhetoric in her defence, making her her look like an 'alien' in the scenario (seeking for a cliché, like trying to convey a 'picture' that some may unconsciously associate with the words "honors student").
 
Last edited:
(...)
There is a reason that it wasn't Rudy but not that he wasn't good looking enough.
(...)

I guess acbytesla doesn't have younger sisters.
I do. I'm astonished about this stereotypical guessing about women tastes. He really seems to not have a clue about the kind of things women may call "a beautiful man".
 
So you have no hard evidence that Mignini was having sexual relations with Rudy. Fine. Why don't we leave the salacious innuendos behind and discuss what there is evidence of. I posted a bulleted list a few pages back.
 
Turn the other cheek -Convertens alteram maxillam - You missed answering the first 4 years it won't hurt now.
NOPE

Mary is a very shallow girl. I'm sure the boy was charming as all get out and being that I was on the same train I can tell you the girl was flat and had no shape to her legs.

You have no idea if it was Rudy or not. Do you think that she would have mentioned that Rudy was the one after the murder?
We were fine up until then. We do have an idea that it wasn't Rudy.


NOBODY WOULD SAY THAT RUDY WAS THE MOST BEAUTIFUL BLACK MAN THEY HAD EVER SEEN. But if only beautiful people had sex, a lot of us would be virgins.
The week before she met Raf for one. She was reported to have had sex with the boy from Rome to day she met him as she did with Raf. I really think the subject would be better left alone.

I got news for you Grinder, average or below average looking guys don't often get one night stands..they have to court the girl usually...a couple of dates. Whereas good looking players often hit the first pitch.

So we have a one week window for a possible rendezvous with so so Rudy and Amanda was NEVER SEEN with Rudy NOT ONCE during that week and no electronic communication.

There is no evidence..just absurd speculation
 
I guess acbytesla doesn't have younger sisters.
I do. I'm astonished about this stereotypical guessing about women tastes. He really seems to not have a clue about the kind of things women may call "a beautiful man".

I have 5 sisters Machiavelli, and 4 brothers.

So I have more than a clue. NONE of my sisters would call Rudy the most beautiful man and they dated both white guys and black guys. One of them married a black man..

It is an absurd..totally absurd speculation that Rudy is the most beautiful black man. But I guess, that doesn't fit your moronic ideas.
 
Last edited:
(...)
But you now raise an interesting issue. Could it have been Napoleoni or one of her team who wiped the clasp before Stefanoni collected it? In addition to Raffaele's DNA, Stefanoni also found DNA of several other males on the clasp. Would that include police officer Finzi's DNA? He is the one who pulled a knife at random out of Raffaele's cutlery drawer and asked his colleague if the mean-looking carving knife would do.

I've noticed this report by you from another post, it attracted my attention.
Let's point out a correction about factual elements here: it is not correct to say the knife was picked up randomly, among other knifes.
Actually, Sollecito possessed in Perugia three knifes that could have been compatible with a stabbing. All three were seized.
The kitchen knife was not the only one sized in his apartment, also a second knife was seized.
There were no other knifes that could fit the use as a killing weapon. All other knifes in the kitchen drawer were small and pointless (I suppose you assume the victim was not klled with a butter knife), there was only one other big knife, a bread knife (not suitable too).
Those knifes were listed in the inventory. There was no other knife in the apartment.

Did Stefanoni find any female DNA (other than Meredith's) on the bra clasp?

In one of Sollecito's experts' opinion, yes. Others did not state so far. It's impossible to attribute single drop-in alleles to an individual anyway.

P.S. - Remind me not to travel to Italy.

Don't travel in Italy.
(it's not healthy for you if you don't enjoy it).
 

You sure like to yell. If you think what you do is defending, in some meaningful way, Amanda's honor you do fit the PGP characterization of her supporters.


We were fine up until then. We do have an idea that it wasn't Rudy.

You have the idea, which seems based in prejudice or ignorance.

NOBODY WOULD SAY THAT RUDY WAS THE MOST BEAUTIFUL BLACK MAN THEY HAD EVER SEEN. But if only beautiful people had sex, a lot of us would be virgins.

People that can't hear well yell a lot. Was she talking about the man's face? Was she talking about his legs? Was she talking about his smile?

I got news for you Grinder, average or below average looking guys don't often get one night stands..they have to court the girl usually...a couple of dates. Whereas good looking players often hit the first pitch.

Think Harry Potter is great looking. I must have been better looking than I thought :p

So we have a one week window for a possible rendezvous with so so Rudy and Amanda was NEVER SEEN with Rudy NOT ONCE during that week and no electronic communication.

There is no evidence..just absurd speculation

Did Rudy have a phone during that period? Look, I don't think Amanda and Rudy had a relationship but not because of your arguments or yelling.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom