Continuation Part Six: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[acbytesla]

Ok - time to cut some slack to Machiavelli on this one. Knox sent a private note to a friend saying she'd had sex on a train, then acknowledged it was a just a joke because of the way that Italian men were looking at her and her sister. This note was intercepted by a British tabloid and the meme was born. The episode with Frederico is a differing one, although they met on a train.

The only sane thing to report, really, is that this took about 3/4 of an hour to root out when I first started posting about this.

The sad part of this Bill is all Mach is doing is engaging in defamation because there is NO CASE.

He is demonizing Amanda and Raffaele so other might see them as demons. And this might work....in Italy and other third world countries as well as with some narrow minded people in first world countries.

So the game plan is talk about Amanda's sex life as opposed to the dearth of evidence. He'd rather speculate and make absurd leaps of logic than try and prove his case. But he won't talk about all that is missing. The last thing Machiavelli wants to talk about is the missing EDFs, negative controls, recordings of the interrogations, DNA, fingerprints, shoe prints, motives not to mention, a case.

 

[Bill Williams]

The sad part of this Bill is all Mach is doing is engaging in defamation because there is NO CASE.

He is demonizing Amanda and Raffaele so other might see them as demons. And this might work....in Italy and other third world countries as well as with some narrow minded people in first world countries.

So the game plan is talk about Amanda's sex life as opposed to the dearth of evidence. He'd rather speculate and make absurd leaps of logic than try and prove his case. But he won't talk about all that is missing. The last thing Machiavelli wants to talk about is the missing EDFs, negative controls, recordings of the interrogations, DNA, fingerprints, shoe prints, motives not to mention, a case.

True.

 

[andreajo]

Amanda wore condoms on both hands.

And her feet. And her head...

 

[RandyN]

Ok - time to cut some slack to Machiavelli on this one. Knox sent a private note to a friend saying she'd had sex on a train, then acknowledged it was a just a joke because of the way that Italian men were looking at her and her sister. This note was intercepted by a British tabloid and the meme was born. The episode with Frederico is a differing one, although they met on a train.

The only sane thing to report, really, is that this took about 3/4 of an hour to root out when I first started posting about this.

Please provide the cite for this Bill. I seem to have missed this one. Also do you have anything on the "most beautiful black man" thing? Was that from My Space or something else and is it still available?

I would find the comment odd and coincidental much like the toilet bomb threat but certainly not indicative of murder.

The sex on the train did not happen according to what AK says in her book. Are you suggesting she lied in her book about that?

 

[Poppy1016]

Take a break, AC. You are attacking the poster and are going to get us on moderated status.

Why is it so difficult to block,or ignore someone rather then attack them? By reading and responding to what is obviously nonsense, gives the poster of said nonsense credence to a degree. IMHO

 

[Mary_H]

Machiavelli has said this....

Bill, you cut Machiavelli way too much slack. If we allow him to answer questions himself, chances are good he won't remember what he said last time, and will come up with something completely new and inconsistent.

 

[acbytesla]

Why is it so difficult to block,or ignore someone rather then attack them? By reading and responding to what is obviously nonsense, gives the poster of said nonsense credence to a degree. IMHO

You're not wrong, but Mach is pretty much the last of the PGP. If we ignore him, it becomes preaching to the choir. There are still a few guilters left but most of them are uncomfortable actually arguing the facts of the case, because they get thumped with the facts. So they just talk to each other on PMF and TJMK.

They can't stand the fire.

 

[Poppy1016]

You're not wrong, but Mach is pretty much the last of the PGP. If we ignore him, it becomes preaching to the choir. There are still a few guilters left but most of them are uncomfortable actually arguing the facts of the case, because they get thumped with the facts. So they just talk to each other on PMF and TJMK.

They can't stand the fire.

Just seems that ignoring the nonsense makes more sense then getting admins all worked up.

 

[Dan O.]

Please provide the cite for this Bill. I seem to have missed this one. Also do you have anything on the "most beautiful black man" thing? Was that from My Space or something else and is it still available?

That is from the MySpace blog for September 2 when Amands is first in Perugia looking for a place to stay.

we hung out for a good long time the day before yesturday, just laughing about crazy people and in general getting to know each other. then, deanna and i went to grab a sandwich at the same cafe and i bumped into the most beautiful black man i have ever seen. he said he’d see me when i come back from germany. eheheheh and our waiter, nerti, from albania, hung out with us a bit and talked politics.​

The sex on the train did not happen according to what AK says in her book. Are you suggesting she lied in her book about that?

It did not happen on a train. It did not happen on a plane.
It did not happen in Florance. The studly man kept on his pants.

Every source which media or guilter site for this claim has disproven it. The only source that hasn't been verified is the suposed message to a friend that was intercepted 3 months later by a British tabloid. I'm skepticle that this letter even supports the claim.

 

[Samson]

I wonder, how many of you know what an "aesthete" is?

I'm an aesthete

Amanda Knox is.

Machiavelli, manifestly, doesn't know what the word means, and not just because he doesn't speak God's language.

Kafka, Dostoyevsky, why would she not read these novels.

 

[LondonJohn]

Fair enough.

I think spam is copying and pasting other people's work. I've seen walls of text much longer than anything seen here pass muster because it was clearly the meanderings of the poster.

So Lionking, what's your take on the recent developments (or any aspect, for that matter) of the Knox/Sollecito trial process? You seem curiously more keen - exclusively keen, in fact, if recent history is to be observed - to discuss forum management issues on this thread rather than the actual topic of the thread itself.

What, therefore, do you make of the Carabinieri officers' testimony and report?

Thanks in advance for offering a post in this thread that's related to the OP

 

[LondonJohn]

I don't have the negative controls; but the question about whether negative controls were deposited into the case file on October 8th is secondary, in my opinion, as I explained, with respect to the evidence that Vecchiotti and Conti did not do any attempt to verify them.
As for the files being "documented as deposited", I still don't have the whole transcript of the 8. (maybe I can find it) but I have excerpts, and there is the judge's (Judge Micheli's) declaration that they will be deposited, and there is Comodi's statement, and there is also a quote of these transcripts by Comodi in another hearing.

Huh?

It appears that court officials themselves - under instruction from Hellmann - tried to locate the control data after Comodi claimed it had been deposited in the court files. It appears that they could find no such file from the court records at the time Comodi claimed they had been lodged (or from any other time either, it appears).

From this information, we can infer that there are two possibilities:

1) The court officials doing the searching were either grossly incompetent or were lying about non-discovery of the control data; or

2) Comodi was lying (or, being as generous as possible, "mistaken") about the files having been deposited in the first place.

I know which option I think is more likely.

I find it beyond laughable that you seem to believe that evidence related to someone "saying" that the files were lodged with the court is somehow stronger or more reliable than the apparent fact that those files are NOT PHYSICALLY PRESENT IN THE COURT RECORDS. In fact, I actually did laugh out loud when you "strengthened" your claim with the gem that Comodi quoted the transcripts of Comodi saying the files were lodged with the Court and Micheli's declaration that they "will" be deposited.

Perhaps you might strengthen your currently-risible claim if you could produce evidence that the court had confirmed - orally or in writing - that the control data HAD been deposited with the court. No? I thought not.......

 

[lionking]

So Lionking, what's your take on the recent developments (or any aspect, for that matter) of the Knox/Sollecito trial process? You seem curiously more keen - exclusively keen, in fact, if recent history is to be observed - to discuss forum management issues on this thread rather than the actual topic of the thread itself.

What, therefore, do you make of the Carabinieri officers' testimony and report?

Thanks in advance for offering a post in this thread that's related to the OP

My observation, after spending two months in Italy this year, is that I talked to many Italians about this topic. From taxi drivers to professors. I didn't find one who thought Amanda (am I allowed to use her first name?) innocent.

As the trial is in Italy, I think this is significant.

On topic enough for you?

 

[snook1]

So, I tried Twitter for a few days. I gotta say, guilters are there in full power mode.They're so desperate, so hateful. It's really shocking. And yes, they're there all the time. I wonder when they sleep, eat, work or spend time with their families, but they're there literally all the time.

And I see, LK is back and he fails to answer a simple question. What is your opinion, lionking about the latest developments in the trial? I'm not asking about taxi drivers and professors, I'm asking about your opinion about the trial and specifically, RIS' latest test.

 

[LondonJohn]

My observation, after spending two months in Italy this year, is that I talked to many Italians about this topic. From taxi drivers to professors. I didn't find one who thought Amanda (am I allowed to use her first name?) innocent.

As the trial is in Italy, I think this is significant.

On topic enough for you?

Well, at least it's peripherally related to the case itself, so it's definitely an improvement

Interesting that a "sceptic" thinks that the very-possibly-uninformed and very-probably-influenced-by-the-media randomly-selected general public are in a position to make a reasoned call on the case. Interesting indeed.

I might go out to a shopping centre in London today and ask the people I meet two questions:

1) What's your opinion on the guilt/non-guilt position of Rebekah Brooks and Andy Coulson in the current "phone-hacking" trial that's big news here in UK?

2) What's your opinion on the reintroduction of the death penalty for child killers and police killers?

I'll then take their almost-certainly-uninformed responses as "significant" in making my own personal assessment in relation to these two questions


PS: I wonder if the "many" Italians you questioned were somewhat intrigued as to why an Australian tourist on a leisure holiday to Italy might be bringing up the topic of the trial of an Italian and an American for the murder of an English woman - especially at a point in time where there was absolutely zero news or movement in the trial process itself. I know what I might have thought

 

[LondonJohn]

So, I tried Twitter for a few days. I gotta say, guilters are there in full power mode.They're so desperate, so hateful. It's really shocking. And yes, they're there all the time. I wonder when they sleep, eat, work or spend time with their families, but they're there literally all the time.

And I see, LK is back and he fails to answer a simple question. What is your opinion, lionking about the latest developments in the trial? I'm not asking about taxi drivers and professors, I'm asking about your opinion about the trial and specifically, RIS' latest test.

It's probably down to a heady mixture of evangelical zeal and personal projection issues. They appear to believe that there is a "war" to be "won", and that they are the "footsoldiers" "doing their duty" by taking on the "enemy" in the "trenches".

I strongly suspect that most - if not all - of the rabid twitter obsessives have something very broken indeed in their offline lives.

Other than that (i.e.a fascinating psychological case study), they're really not worth thinking about. As the Man once artfully intoned, these are no more than "... tale(s), Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing".

 

[RoseMontague]

My observation, after spending two months in Italy this year, is that I talked to many Italians about this topic. From taxi drivers to professors. I didn't find one who thought Amanda (am I allowed to use her first name?) innocent.

As the trial is in Italy, I think this is significant.

On topic enough for you?

Sad but true. Good to see you posting in this thread again.

 

[Dan O.]

It sounds like the Italian press have setup the Italian judiciary to be lynched if they were to find Amanda not guilty.

 

[LondonJohn]

Sad but true. Good to see you posting in this thread again.

The majority of the British public thought that the Guildford Four, the Birmingham Six, the Bridgewater Four and Barry George were guilty - not only during their appeals process, but also long after they were acquitted (and probably many still believe them to be guilty but to have "got away with it" to this day).

Fortunately (if belatedly) the English criminal justice system didn't kowtow to the clamour of misinformed and unintelligent "public opinion". And if it did, then not only would all those people probably still be rotting in jail, but we'd also likely have public hangings, no prosecution of motoring speeding offences, and convictions based on reasoning like "it sounds like he did it".

I trust - currently - that the Italian criminal justice system (and if not them, then the European justice system) will look intelligently and dispassionately at the facts in this case. I also - currently - trust that the appeal judges and lay jurors are collectively sufficiently objective and intelligent to be able to weigh the evidence (and lack of evidence) properly.

I don't care less what the "man in the street" in Italy thinks about this case, as regards its influence on the outcome.

 

[Diocletus]

I have a feeling it's much more common than Machiavelli realizes.

I once had a good time on the night train from Moscow to St. Petersburg. I think its pretty common. And fun.