Continuation Part Six: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[RandyN]

I just guessed. Looks like I was right!

Now that is funny ...I dont care who you are...

 

[Supernaut]

I must admit I don’t really understand this tendency of quoting posts from other discussion sites, why not post a response on the site in question?

I remain curious to see how much of the minutiae discussed here will even been raised, then to read how the defence and prosecution present their arguments. Indeed, I wonder how the Caribinieri RIS evidence has gone down with the lay jury; did they understand what was presented?

To what extent will the professional judge’s guide (influence) the lay jury, do they objectively concede points of law made by defence or prosecution, will they really be explaining the science TOD, don’t think so somehow, and this for me is the interesting aspect of the appeal.

Blah. Blah blah blah.

Blah-blah blah.

Blah blah, blah-blah, blah blah blah.

Blah blah.

 

[RandyN]

I noticed all this as well.

She's just another ditto-head, albeit a benign one, and her "analysis" doesn't really help.

In the end this powerful digestive evidence was not used/understood well by the defense. In their defense (defending the defenders) they got lost by the slight oh hand tricks about complete digestion etc...it seems that in Italy all the prosecution needs to do is create reasonable doubt the defendants are innocent....and you can get a 6 year long abortion called a "fair trial".

How Italians expect to come out of this not appearing moronically stupid puzzles me to no end.

 

[Bill Williams]

The point is responding to wild claims that I suggested Guede was Amanda's pimp.
No, I did not. I said other things. Among the things I said, is that she was in contact with drug dealers (who were busted because of her, btw).

Machiavelli, I am serving notice to you that somewhere down this thread, maybe weeks from now. I am going to bring up again this factoid of yours, that the "drug dealers Knox was in contact with were busted because of her."

I am already steeling myself for your intense denial that you said it. People are already making-book in PM on the date of your first denial that you'd ever said this.

In 25 years of being on-line, I've never encountered anyone like you. And a reminder - I've withdrawn the invitation to dinner. Your "theory of the crime" upthread is absolute hogwash.

 

[RandyN]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli View Post
"Did it happen" is a question about guilt, only about some specific events which are sexual violence and murder.

But about the s.c. scenario, that is all circumstances surrounding the events, the only question that may be necessary to ask if it's possible or plausible.

Anyway the point is responding your lie, your allegation, which you know is false, about me "implying Guede was Knox's pimp"....
What I claim is that - given that we have already proof beyond doubt that all three are guilty and were in the house - it is perfectly normal to reasonably assume that Guede and Amanda were at home to have some drug-fuelled sex together that night."

Bill says..
"Wow. I thought the trial was still underway? Has Nencini written the motivations' report? Truly, I thought I was following this closely... I missed it!

Or is the fix in, as per my own conspiracy theory of why the ISC sent it back for trial?

Why are they even bothering with a trial? "



Lets ask Andrea what she thinks.

 

[Bill Williams]

And next, I never - never - conceded that Nadeau, or even less John Kercher, ever reported that Mignini put forward a satanic scenario.The truth: YOU are the person making these allegations about things other people purportedly said. But these are just among the countless claims for which you fail to provide any source.
Because again, you failed to provide any quote for such claims.

Machiavelli - the post you made is a gold-mine of contradictions. I just saw this one. (You cannot say I don't take you seriously, even though I am now not going to host a dinner for you..... I'm just saying....)

If you did not concede this, why did you call Nadeau an "approximate reporter", and why did you say that Kercher was "mistaken"?

I am now steeling myself for a flurry of denials that you'd ever said THOSE two things! Go for it, Machiavelli.... people on this JREF service can, apparently, read.

 

[RandyN]

It seems the relevance of Madison Paxton has now been covered. What is troubling about this case is that relevance of different issues seems to vary so widely according to the belief of the author.
Here is Edward McCall on time of death from PMF yesterday.
Since he is praised widely for his wiki endeavour, it is important to discuss his observations.

"Cornwell is not familiar with the evidence given the quote they used. The only evidence discussed is Cornerll making some claims about a focus on digestion as a way to establish time of death. Time of death is not important to the investigation nor was digestion used to establish it. The defense did hope to bring up digestion but it was a very minor part even for the defense. The only reason I know about digestion is that the brother of that unstable lawyer is obsessed with it. Early on he kept tweeting at me about digestion and demanding that I debate him on the topic. It would appear that Cornwell is confusing FOAKer positions with the positions taken by the prosecution."

Time of death has been widely discussed on this forum, and is of course extremely relevant to the time line required by the one convicting judge, Massei.
How do you see this subject, or do you agree with McCall it is not important to the investigation (irrelevant)?

Lets see...I forget...is McCall ex-doctor Brandon Mull who lost his license to practice because he tried to murder his own doctor who wanted to have him committed? Or is Cornhole actually Brandon? No matter I suppose. The fact that hack Vogt recommends a wiki site is enough proof that nothing honest will be learned there. Ironic that someone so unreliable contends that a site is reliable...almost sounds like that there Italiano logic to me.

ETA... As he wipes the dripping sarcasm from his chin.

 

[RandyN]

Wow an article in the Stranger the paper that has the brilliant Mudede and the source of the prank story and to top it off the Candace "Amanda is Innocent" column.

Madison is/was a good friend of Amanda and that's about it.

Why is this necessary? Mad is Fab!!! Dont forget the video she produced, wrote, filmed, and stared in for a major TV network. Do I detect some professional jealously?

Dont make me post that Ryan Ferguson welcome home pic of AK and MP. I'll do it...I swear I will!

ETA...I fell in love with the name Madison after watching Splash for the 15th time...just saying. (Does anyone still say "just saying"?) Poor Daryl has not held up well. I'm thinking its all the pent up anger. Poor dear.

 

[Bill Williams]

Lets see...I forget...is McCall ex-doctor Brandon Mull who lost his license to practice because he tried to murder his own doctor who wanted to have him committed? Or is Cornhole actually Brandon? No matter I suppose. The fact that hack Vogt recommends a wiki site is enough proof that nothing honest will be learned there. Ironic that someone so unreliable contends that a site is reliable...almost sounds like that there Italiano logic to me.

ETA... As he wipes the dripping sarcasm from his chin.

Brendan Mull did not lose his licence. It was suspended, and he can work in some situations under supervision.

 

[acbytesla]

You're welcome.

So you're him!!! I had my suspicions.

 

[Bill Williams]

So you're him!!! I had my suspicions.

Actually, given that we're holding Machiavelli to factuality, it's "her".

Don't tell Grinder. He'll hound me until I explain why God spirits people across border frontiers. Get it? God! Spirits? Ha ha ha ha ha!

Machiavelli will accuse me of being full of myself. But what can you do.....

Ergon will be jealous.

 

[acbytesla]

Actually, given that we're holding Machiavelli to factuality, it's "her".

Don't tell Grinder. He'll hound me until I explain why God spirits people across border frontiers. Get it? God! Spirits? Ha ha ha ha ha!

Machiavelli will accuse me of being full of myself. But what can you do.....

Ergon will be jealous.

That's true, he does think he is the one.

 

[kwill]

Mach portrays Amanda as if she was any different than her three female roommates in regards to sex. In fact, nothing could be further from the truth.

Yes. Having a genuine moral distaste for sex outside of marriage, or for casual sex between consenting adults who aren't interested in anything more is one thing. There are people who just don't think it's okay, which is their lookout, as far as I'm concerned. They can think that, as long as they don't expect me to behave according to their rules, which IMO make no sense.

What's troubling is those who sluttify Amanda Knox while looking away from what her roommates were up to. The fact is that her sex life -- and it's never been anybody's business but her own -- was just as unrelated to the murder as Meredith's was. They were both new in town, they both had new boyfriends, they both smoked pot, they both were doing the bar scene, they were both good students, they were both lovely young women with families who loved them.

Meredith was killed because in a moment of tragic bad luck she walked in on Rudy's burglary scene, not because of Amanda's "behavior."

 

[Samson]

I was exasperated by Cornwell's comments for the same reason I have found Nina Burleigh exasperating. Cornwell sees that the official story makes no sense, is unsupported by credible evidence, and the authorities are clinging to it for reasons of pride and self-interest. She is right. But she has the details wrong. She argues that something could have delayed Meredith's digestion, as though that would be a point to the defense. In fact, the digestive evidence points strongly to an early TOD, consistent with Guede killing Meredith just after 9 pm because she walked in on a burglary. It is sound evidence, the best available in this case, but it's not conclusive. The prosecution was able to introduce an element of doubt, which was enough for Massei to reject it entirely.

Charlie I thought the duodenum evidence was conclusive scientifically. I agree Cornwell's contribution on this is unconsidered, I am sure she made a simple declaration around general criminal profiling, and then introduced some erroneous detail to support her conclusion, so a complicated sequence, Cornwell, McCall etc. However I am most interested in the notion that the duodenum evidence is inconclusive, I simply don't understand. Yet I am persuaded by the continuation of the case that this must be indeed so. How is it inconclusive?

 

[RandyN]

Brendan Mull did not lose his licence. It was suspended, and he can work in some situations under supervision.

Humm any cites for that? I seem to recall that he was subject to some sort of probation which is obviously doing him some good with the impulse control and obsession issues. I hope his probation officer understands his PGP points.

Sure he can work. But can he work as a doctor? Im thinking he has taken up carpentry...you know like Jesus did...or was that the other God poster... he is a member here but I dont recall his name...(dont say it...its against the rules)

 

[RandyN]

You're welcome.

He was talking about Ergon...the real GOD. You know better Bill.

 

[Bill Williams]

He was talking about Ergon...the real GOD. You know better Bill.

Rats. Outed again.

 

[RandyN]

Charlie I thought the duodenum evidence was conclusive scientifically. I agree Cornwell's contribution on this is unconsidered, I am sure she made a simple declaration around general criminal profiling, and then introduced some erroneous detail to support her conclusion, so a complicated sequence, Cornwell, McCall etc. However I am most interested in the notion that the duodenum evidence is inconclusive, I simply don't understand. Yet I am persuaded by the continuation of the case that this must be indeed so. How is it inconclusive?

It is perfectly conclusive....well 99.99%conclusive anyway. Its just that the main points which we covered quite extensively here at JREF were never covered in court in the same manner.

The pathologist properly prepared the digestive system so that no slippage could occur. Upon exam the stomach still contained all the meal consumed by MK which started about 6 PM. What got lost in the trial was a confusing word game (think Yummi/Mac) where prosecution experts wanted everyone to believe that the issue was stomach complete emptying...when the only important fact was that transition from stomach to duodenum had not even begun in MK at all. And so following along that would mean according to the prosecution who contends a TOD 11:30 PM or later that some sort of digestive anomaly was a fact. Rather than accept the conclusion of all the corresponding circumstantial data (including the transition time norms of 1 1/2 to 4 hours) that proves beyond all doubt that MK was dead before 9:30 PM!

It is sophistry and a prosecutions lies that allow the court to be "fooled" about any thing about TOD that seems inconclusive. MK was murdered between 9:05 and 10 PM although I am quite certain that can be narrowed to 9:10 to 9:30 and is likely when Rudy tells us it happened....9:20PM! This is the only time that fits all facts...but we must discard the whack jobs like Nara et al...not hard considering the idiocy of their statements.

 

[RandyN]

The highlighted part is the thing I deal with....

snip

Meredith is the victim here. Period.

snip

Wrong!

Meredith is the victim of a brutal murder.

AK and RS are the victims of a brutal corrupt abusive wrongful prosecution first by a prosecutor willing to say and do anything no matter how untrue in order to jail innocent persons. Followed by a line of cronies who wish to prop up his lunacy. All rubber stamped by a judicial system with the worst record of human rights violations of any country in the western world.

Additionally there are other victims such as family and lawyers, reporters and bloggers who have been charged with crimes by this same maniac Mignini from Perugia Italy.

Lastly the Kerchers themselves are victims of the crime of being lied to about the death of their daughter...once more look no further than Mignini for the guilty party ...who calls the murderer Guede "poor Rudy" in front of the victims family? Why Mignini that's who.

 

[acbytesla]

Yes. Having a genuine moral distaste for sex outside of marriage, or for casual sex between consenting adults who aren't interested in anything more is one thing. There are people who just don't think it's okay, which is their lookout, as far as I'm concerned. They can think that, as long as they don't expect me to behave according to their rules, which IMO make no sense.

What's troubling is those who sluttify Amanda Knox while looking away from what her roommates were up to. The fact is that her sex life -- and it's never been anybody's business but her own -- was just as unrelated to the murder as Meredith's was. They were both new in town, they both had new boyfriends, they both smoked pot, they both were doing the bar scene, they were both good students, they were both lovely young women with families who loved them.

Meredith was killed because in a moment of tragic bad luck she walked in on Rudy's burglary scene, not because of Amanda's "behavior."

Yep, I think you nailed it. I wouldn't have a problem with Machiavelli saying that he had a problem with Amanda's life choices. He has a right to that opinion, not that I agree with his opinion.

What bothers me is that he expresses this opinion with so little integrity. As you so eloquently said, it is unrelated to Meredith's murder.

Machiavelli is basically saying that casual sex and marijuana smoking are "gateway drugs" to committing murder. This kind of logic is of course rhetorical nonsense. If that was true there would one hell of a lot of murder taking place in Perugia and other places.

Personally, I have never heard that promiscuity leads to violence. But I challenge Machiavelli or anyone in the PGP to cite the studies that it does. My bet is he will come up empty.