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How To Use Bitcoin – The Most Important Creation In The History Of Man

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I'm unsure if that was meant to be a concession or not.
That's because you didn't read the bit in the post you quoted about "Once more people start to use bitcoin as their primary currency ...".

The rise in transactions that involve bitcoin only and don't rely on conversion to or from other currencies is happening (albeit slowly because of its rapidly appreciating* value).

It does also rely on there being someone nearby who wishes to buy the right amount of bitcoins at the right price, yes?
No. Once again your reading let you down. Most of the sellers there will sell the number of BTC you desire up to a maximum limit.

* Yes the price is volatile too.
 
Actually you also show that you don't understand concepts like exponential growth, chart reading, volume trading and the meaning of the word "catastrophic".

If prices had been steady and suddenly fell by a large percentage then that could be described as "catastrophic"

However, if the fall in price only partially offset a meteoric price rise that immediately preceded it then that is a price "correction".
 
Bitcoin doesn't seem to be going away. Many people seemed to think that the pump and dump earlier this year would be the stake through the heart of Bitcoin, but here we are half a year later reaching new highs.

Yes is is relatively volatile. Yes there is an upward trend. Both statements are true and not mutually exclusive.

The question that interests me is what is the trend in purchases using Bitcoin? This would surely be the key pointer as to where Bitcoin may be headed.

Also, I liked Liam Halligan's article in the DT and I thought it was a fair summation for the uninitiated:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...-laugh-Bitcoin-is-making-a-serious-point.html

An interesting development:
That is typical of much reporting "for the uninitiated" which is actually "by the uninitiated". As you quote:

That said, it represents a remarkable conceptual and technical achievement, which may well be used by existing financial institutions (which could issue their own Bitcoins) or even by governments themselves”.


No, the banks or the governments could not issue their own bitcoins. There is no "issuing". There is only the discovery of the bitcoins from the latest additions to the blockchains.

If it is presumed that the author means to say that banks or governments themselves would create a similar system to bitcoin, that fails the test of logical understanding of the bitoin algorithm. It is a system that does away with 'trust' and thus with 'trusted intermediaries'. Those include banks and governments. They will not create a system that does away with themselves.

Can I ask where you would keep them? Not trying to be clever, just genuinely curious what is considered a safe way to store your life savings.
This is a question that can be reduced to where would one put a 31 digit and a 50s some digit number where they would be safe. A piece of paper? Engrave them on a piece of stainless steel? Put that in a safe deposit box? It is a simple question with a simple answer.

One method is to use a self booting linux usb with the blockchain and the bitcoin program resident. But storing and managing the blockchain is not required to simply have bitcoins and store them safely. It is in fact, unrelated and possibly not safe. This is because a bitcoin wallet may not expose the private keys to the owner of the wallet. Thus if the wallet is corrupted, the owner never knew his own private keys. If on the contrary he printed them out on a piece of paper, then he has them on hard copy. That's much better.

Originally Posted by psionl0
The weakness is still having to convert to and from other currencies.



Well, it's one of the weaknesses.
.....

What psion0 implied was that for a inter currency transaction the parties at the two ends may still be obliged to transfer the bitcoin to and from the local currency, rather than using the bitcoin down and upstream.

This is no different than the situation with many currencies in use in the world. For international transactions they must be translated into something that's commonly used or accepted, instead of said currency being used up and downstream. This is no big deal at all.

I think we're done here, unless you'd like to burn a few more strawmen about things I didn't say.
You were done to a crisp six months ago, but keep coming back. Quit, keep your money in fiat, and deal with the consequences. Other people are moving on.
 
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That's because you didn't read the bit in the post you quoted about "Once more people start to use bitcoin as their primary currency ...".

The rise in transactions that involve bitcoin only and don't rely on conversion to or from other currencies is happening (albeit slowly because of its rapidly appreciating* value).
It's not that I didn't read it, I just pre-empted it in my first post.

It's all very well saying that once it's accepted by more people everything will be great, but until the real obstacles to Bitcoin's widespread adoption can be overcome it's just hot air. It is not inevitable that because some small businesses accept it today, eventually all businesses will.

No. Once again your reading let you down. Most of the sellers there will sell the number of BTC you desire up to a maximum limit.
Is being needlessly antagonistic the best way to nurture our romance? If I made a mistake then just point out what in the source material contradicts the things I said; no need to be a dick about it.

If I'm on the end of a "money" transfer, I still need to be able to find someone to buy the right amount of Bitcoins at the price I want for them to maintain the value I was sent. I didn't want to get into the volatility issue, but it is a factor.

Hell, localbitcoins even recommend setting up a new bank account dedicated to Bitcoin trading if you're going to be selling internationally. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if I want to sell a decent value of Bitcoins I have to accept a bank transfer or find enough people in the area who are willing to bring thousands of dollars in cash. There's also the 1% fee on adverts if you go that route.
 
....
Is being needlessly antagonistic the best way to nurture our romance? If I made a mistake then just point out what in the source material contradicts the things I said; no need to be a dick about it......

I know a lot of people who move quantities of bitcoin around, and I don't know anyone who would be particularly interested in your source material and what it says or does not say. Reading something on the internet isn't particularly useful in establishing expertise.

ACH is an accepted and common way of buying and selling bitcoin without lugging around suitcases of money, for example using coinbase.com
 
I know a lot of people who move quantities of bitcoin around, and I don't know anyone who would be particularly interested in your source material and what it says or does not say. Reading something on the internet isn't particularly useful in establishing expertise.
The localbitcoins website would probably be considered by most to be a fairly good indication of what services localbitcoins provides, which is what we were talking about.

ACH is an accepted and common way of buying and selling bitcoin without lugging around suitcases of money, for example using coinbase.com
Within the US perhaps, but that doesn't apply internationally, or does it? And aren't we also subject to a 1% fee at coinbase, which is prohibitely expensive on large transfers.
 
The localbitcoins website would probably be considered by most to be a fairly good indication of what services localbitcoins provides, which is what we were talking about.

Within the US perhaps, but that doesn't apply internationally, or does it? And aren't we also subject to a 1% fee at coinbase, which is prohibitely expensive on large transfers.

Localbitcoins does not provide services except to have listings of people by zip code or area that engage in personal transfers of coin for cash. Whatever good or bad deal you got there would be based on your skills in dealing with the situation in your community with the other party. It has nothing to do with the website. And FYI, when I said "I know a lot of people who move quantities of bitcoin around, and I don't know anyone who would be particularly interested in your source material and what it says or does not say. Reading something on the internet isn't particularly useful in establishing expertise." that means I don't know anyone who goes and meets a stranger and buys or sells bitcoin a la localbitcoins.

Anyone can engage in a transaction with anyone else in the world with btc so there is no "in the US". Coinbase serves to translate the local currency - the USD - to and from bitcoin. The other side of the transaction could be anywhere. There, there is or would develop other money changers.

A 1% fee is prohibitively expensive compared to what, an international transfer including the currency exchange bite? You kidding, right? At what exchange rates? The official ones? Take a random selection of a dozen countries and think through the implications and costs of that.

Is a 1% fee high compared to paypal or credit card transactions? No, it's ridiculously lower, even if no currency exchange was involved.
 
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Is being needlessly antagonistic the best way to nurture our romance? If I made a mistake then just point out what in the source material contradicts the things I said; no need to be a dick about it.
If you made a genuine error then I apologize for my antagonism. It's just that it is rare to find anybody from the anti-bitcoin brigade who will admit to making an error. They cling doggedly to their assertion long after it has been proven incorrect.

That said, I'm not sure why you are harping on about the currency conversion aspect. Few would have foreseen the emergence of bitcoin apps for mobile phones nor the development of bitcoin ATMs. The demand is clearly there.
 
What happens if your media gets corrupted?
One only needs to print out a single public and private key pair, then transfer the balance (or whatever is desired) into that key. This is a 31 digit and a 52 digit number IIRC.

That's it. Done. Now you just need to not lose that piece of paper. There is another method called a 'brain wallet', but as psion and I and a few others are spoon feeding bitcoin stuff to randians, we'll get into brain wallets in about fourteen quintillion years, or the length of time it would take the NSA to break the btc code algorithm.

If you made a genuine error then I apologize for my antagonism. It's just that it is rare to find anybody from the anti-bitcoin brigade who will admit to making an error. They cling doggedly to their assertion long after it has been proven incorrect.

That said, I'm not sure why you are harping on about the currency conversion aspect. Few would have foreseen the emergence of bitcoin apps for mobile phones nor the development of bitcoin ATMs. The demand is clearly there.
It should be transparently obvious that 'the people of the world' do not, for many things, need their national currency system, they simply need a system to trade and transact with each other. Be that as it may, we have already been moving and bitcoin is part of the movement into a world in which everyone is working with multiple currencies and is quite easily doing so.

A few years ago dealing with multiple credit cards, some routinely doing currency translations like for purchase of internet service or vpn from overseas, dealing with paypal, these things would have presented a big stumbling block for people. Now most of us don't even think about them. Btc is no different, the kids will catch on much quicker than the old people.
 
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Oops! I didn't think of that. I guess bitcoin is totally useless after all.

(Seriously, safely storing computer data is hardly a new problem).
Citboin is just not for the insomniac dyslexic atheist, who is in any case occupied staying up nights wondering there is a dog.
 
Oops! I didn't think of that. I guess bitcoin is totally useless after all.

(Seriously, safely storing computer data is hardly a new problem).
Generally when someone loses computer data their life savings doesn't go away with it.
 
Generally when someone loses computer data their life savings doesn't go away with it.

I'm hardly on the pro-bitcoin side of things, but I can speak to the technological aspect coherently: This is no longer an issue in the modern world for data as small as a bitcoin wallet.

It is possible to have multiple backups of your 'wallet' and your public/private keys in multiple locations in multiple countries _for free_ right now, as I speak. I can think of at least three free "cloud storage" facilities off the top of my head* in which one could stash three small files for the foreseeable future and access them from anywhere; the existence of extremely inexpensive external USB hard drives means that it's possible to create multiple local backups as well, depending on how paranoid you are. You could even burn a copy of your keys to a CD/DVD and park that in a safe-deposit box, if you're _really_ worried about losing access to your wallet.

Protecting yourself against loss of data in this manner is trivial. It's actually been so for quite some time (i have files on my current hard drive dating from the prior century), if you had the technical knowledge. As Democracy Simulator's link mentions, there are a number of lessons that _can_ be learned from bitcoin's implementation and applied by existing financial institutions, and "how to create and secure a stable digital-only commodity" would be one of them.





* Dropbox, Google Drive, Box -- i am certain there are many others, but i've never needed more than dropbox and google
 
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I'm hardly on the pro-bitcoin side of things, but I can speak to the technological aspect coherently: This is no longer an issue in the modern world for data as small as a bitcoin wallet.

It is possible to have multiple backups of your 'wallet' and your public/private keys in multiple locations in multiple countries _for free_ right now, as I speak. I can think of at least three free "cloud storage" facilities off the top of my head* in which one could stash three small files for the foreseeable future and access them from anywhere; the existence of extremely inexpensive external USB hard drives means that it's possible to create multiple local backups as well, depending on how paranoid you are. You could even burn a copy of your keys to a CD/DVD and park that in a safe-deposit box, if you're _really_ worried about losing access to your wallet.

Protecting yourself against loss of data in this manner is trivial. It's actually been so for quite some time (i have files on my current hard drive dating from the prior century), if you had the technical knowledge. As Democracy Simulator's link mentions, there are a number of lessons that _can_ be learned from bitcoin's implementation and applied by existing financial institutions, and "how to create and secure a stable digital-only commodity" would be one of them.





* Dropbox, Google Drive, Box -- i am certain there are many others, but i've never needed more than dropbox and google
With off-site storage the it has to updated with every transaction, or it won't be an actual backup. Cloud storage can fail, and actually has. Plus it can be hacked. And if you misplace your keys, bye-bye money. Then there's also the possibility that as technology changes those keys and wallet you stashed away 50 years ago can no longer be accessed with the new technology and software. Relying on external "vaults" run at the present time by shady businesses catering primarily to drug dealers and other criminals has its own unique problems.
 
With off-site storage the it has to updated with every transaction, or it won't be an actual backup. Cloud storage can fail, and actually has. Plus it can be hacked. And if you misplace your keys, bye-bye money. Then there's also the possibility that as technology changes those keys and wallet you stashed away 50 years ago can no longer be accessed with the new technology and software. Relying on external "vaults" run at the present time by shady businesses catering primarily to drug dealers and other criminals has its own unique problems.

None of these issues exist with actual methods used to safely store bitcoins. The reason is that they have all been thought out and compensated for. You may be forgetting that bitcoin was essentially created by hackers, and has to a large extent been propagated by hackers, in the tradition of open source cryptographic solutions.

Any part of a trove of bitcoins can be put into a 'paper wallet' and then be outside the internet and computer networks completely.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Paper_wallet

Keep in mind that the 'pretty picture' of a paper bitcoin is only that, a pretty picture. All that is needed is the public and private key printed on a piece of paper and stored away.

https://bitcoinpaperwallet.com/

It's been suggested that rather than run the java code, one download it and run the code on a machine not connected to the internet to print the paper out.

But this is still ridiculous appearance driven nonsense as the code generates the square bar code and the pretties. All you need is the numeric series of some 90 odd digits.
 
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