Continuation Part Six: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[js202]

This has been already cited, on this forum.
I'm a bit like Stefanoni, I don't like to deposit information twice. You already have links to news articles.

How droll, but you said it. Don't we all know what a rotten, treacherous, incompetent, boot-licking amateur Patrizia's works have proven her to be.

 

[Machiavelli]

Hi Machiavelli,
I've a couple of questions for you.

Is it standard practice in Italy to hire foreign college students for a job that many local Italian students, who speak the native language, could easly do?

Yes.

Are any special work permits required by a foreign student to get a job in the community they study at in Perugia, Italy?

No.
But after some time they will need a sstudy certificate.

Does a potential employeer have any special paperwork to file in order to hire a foreign student worker?

Yes. There is several things that he has to file. Theoretically.

Did Patrick Lumumba do so?

It is impossible to answer this question exhaustively. You would need his fiscal records, which he won't give you.

Lastly,
why do I seem to recall reading that PL was payin' Amanda under the table?

I consider this a most likely circumstance. It was a most trivial and usual practice. This wouldn't have any implications.

 

[Mary_H]

<snip>I consider this a most likely circumstance. It was a most trivial and usual practice. This wouldn't have any implications.

Like two weeks' notice.

 

[acbytesla]

Does anyone else think that Machiavelli should be taught the meaning of "double standard"?

He dismisses critical articles about Mignini, Commodi and Stefanoni as fiction and just as quickly declares similar critical newspaper reported stories about Amanda and Raffaele as a factual element?

It certainly makes you go hmmmm.

Add in the fact that he constantly argues certain things as facts based on hidden documents. Kind of like Commodi and Stefanoni and the negative controls.

So much BS. It's like walking about a dairy farm. I need to clean my boots.

 

[Machiavelli]

(...)
This makes no sense, sorry. Amanda was enrolled at a university in Perugia, and she was earning credits toward her degree while there.

No. Knox was enrolled at the University for Foreigneers. Which is NOT the University of Perugia.
In fact, despite the name, it is not a university but a language school.
The University of Perugia was attended by Sollecito and Meredith; that one is actually a university.
The rest of the things you say have the same merit of the statement above.

 

[Mary_H]

<snip>Sheesh. You need to go to confession.

Mach ain't a cat'lick, Fadda.

 

[Machiavelli]

Does anyone else think that Machiavelli should be taught the meaning of "double standard"?

He dismisses critical articles about Mignini, Commodi and Stefanoni as fiction and just as quickly declares similar critical newspaper reported stories about Amanda and Raffaele as a factual element? (...)

Critical?
Nothing critical about Knox; not news focused about Knox at all actually. That was local news reports about drug dealers captured and tried in Perugia. The article is about drug dealers, routine city stuff, the link with Knox has the space of two lines.

 

[RoseMontague]

This makes no sense, sorry. Amanda was enrolled at a university in Perugia, and she was earning credits toward her degree while there.

No. Knox was enrolled at the University for Foreigneers. Which is NOT the University of Perugia.
In fact, despite the name, it is not a university but a language school.
The University of Perugia was attended by Sollecito and Meredith; that one is actually a university.
The rest of the things you say have the same merit of the statement above.

I believe Kwill said it correctly. So if the rest of the things have the same merit, LOL.

 

[Machiavelli]

I say you don't know.

What you don't say, is what? (the thing you would need to make sense)

 

[acbytesla]

Critical?
Nothing critical about Knox; not news focused about Knox at all actually. That was local news reports about drug dealers captured and tried in Perugia. The article is about drug dealers, routine city stuff, the link with Knox has the space of two lines.

You still have NOT PROVIDED A CITE!!!

MORE BULL!!!

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

Now, can you tell me Stefanoni made the trip from Rome to Perugia to collect the bra clasp and did so with the chance that she would come up empty - that she would find NO compromising DNA on it? You know she went there to fetch it because Raffaele's father was about to go on TV to prove his son's shoeprint does not match the crime-scene shoeprints, and the PLE needed something to physically tie him to the crime scene. The police and presecutor needed her to find something and she understood that.

We actually figured out that this as a bit of pro-innocence fanfic a while ago. Stefanoni made her trip to fabricate find new evidence well before the shoeprint debacle.

The difference between us and the guilters is that when we realise we've got something wrong, we fix our story and don't repeat the mistake.

 

[Mary_H]

Of course but, the argument goes beyond; the point is: who cares if Knox was a honor student?
And who cares if she was not a honor student?

In fact, I never said that I care about this. I only said - only in response to a claim - that in fact there is no evidence that Knox was even a honor student.
If she decided to live recklessly and for the day with no academic project, who cares? Nobody. Certanly not me. I have no moral judgement about it.

You may not have a moral judgment about it, but that doesn't stop you from using Amanda's personal history to smear her, just as Mignini did. Without making everything about Amanda's personality look bad, he had no case. You and he both exploit the reality that there are people who DO have moral judgments about other people's certain behaviors, and use that reality to your advantage.

But a person who lives for the day and goers to night party where people high on drugs throw rocks at passing cars, is normally not a honor student. It's just an objective assessment, not a moral judgement.

There is absolutely no way whatsoever to make a claim like this. Honor students probably attend wild parties all the time.

A honor student usually is a person who earned a title requiring both performance and conduct, indicating a person with a life oriented and structured around an academic project.

At age 26, Amanda knows three languages and has had a memoir published. How were you doing at that age?

 

[Bill Williams]

Mach ain't a cat'lick, Fadda.

Oooooooops. At least my perfect record for failing to predict is intact!

Still, with reforms to make it gender neutral, I think it would be good for him. He's told some whoppers today.

 

[Machiavelli]

This is nonsense. She obviously would get credits for her study abroad or else she wouldn't be studying there. You don't just cutout of school for a whole semester and study without getting credit toward your degree.

The University for Foreigneers may offer certificate for proficiency in Italian language. It may offer study credits valid at other universities, but in an extremely limited set of subjects.
Now it has recently improved and developed also some real academic courses so maybe I should correct myself and say you are right if you say that now it's a university.
However, it mainly functions not as a university - its students are mostly language students not students of its academic courses - and Knox was not attending it as a university, but as a language school. She would be offered language proficiency credits. That she might later use in her study plan at the university of Washington.
But this can hardly be called an academic semester. It's a study for language certificates.

 

[Machiavelli]

You may not have a moral judgment about it, but that doesn't stop you from using Amanda's personal history to smear her, just as Mignini did. Without making everything about Amanda's personality look bad, he had no case. (...)

To me it's not "bad", it's only compatible with a scenario of her involvement in a crime based on a contact/relation between her and Rudy Guede.

 

[kwill]

This is what I said:
Amanda was enrolled at a university in Perugia, and she was earning credits toward her degree while there.

No. Knox was enrolled at the University for Foreigneers. Which is NOT the University of Perugia.

Where did I say the University of Perguia? I used precise language. Read it again.

In fact, despite the name, it is not a university but a language school.
The University of Perugia was attended by Sollecito and Meredith; that one is actually a university.

Well now. Does the language school in Perugia give college level credits toward a university degree? I think it does. I think that's why Amanda chose to go there -- because she was a foreign language major at a fine American university who wanted to spend a few months learning Italian as it's spoken in Italy.

You think that Amanda went there because she knew it was a party town and you think she was a party girl. But these are your imaginings, sir, and they're far from having any relationship to reality.

The rest of the things you say have the same merit of the statement above.

Thank you. I'll take that to mean that you're unable to support your defamatory assertions, and that you recognize the truth of mine.

 

[Mary_H]

To me it's not "bad", it's only compatible with a scenario of her involvement in a crime based on a contact/relation between her and Rudy Guede.

So, to you, crimes are not bad.

 

[Bill Williams]

Perhaps it is time we consider the theory that most of the posts we read that are from guilters are actually the work of 1 person who was hired by the Gogerty Marriot public relations agency.
I got this Idea from Nina Burleigh. Back in the day she had not decided whether Amanda was guilty or innocent. She met a guilter who was quite friendly and helpful. Then he changed when she became a bit suspicious about what he had told her.
"I emailed him to ask where he had found out that Knox and Sollecito met police standing outside the murder house with a mop and bucket in hand. That damning incident was nowhere in the record, not even the prosecutor would confirm it, nor had Italy’s Polizia Scientifica ever tested such items, which would surely have offered up some useful DNA evidence, had they been used to clean blood.*"
His answer was that Nina must be part of the legal and P.R. team that the Knox family had assembled to create doubt in the minds of the jury and the public.
I would think that if you are a guilter and you are writing to a journalist who writes articles that appear in magazines, you would try to be ever so polite and friendly, hoping she would write something you liked. But he wasn't and he helped Ms. Burleigh change her mind about Amanda. Now Nina thinks that Knox is innocent and her enemies are crazy.
Perhaps the guilter is a phony and is putting posts on the internet that make the guilters and their beliefs seem irrational.
Another process is repeating Mignini's case, without Mignini being there to make his presentation.
I will show you a synopsis of Mignini's case and present it to you without any of the persuasive skills Mignini used when he made his case to the jury.
Foxy Knoxy is a super-slut who can control any man who falls under her spell.
On Halloween Ms. Knoxy wanted to do a human sacrifice during a satanic rite. She had acquired a hatred for Meridith, so she chose her to be the victim. She got together with 2 men and a chef's knife she found in the kitchen drawer, at Meridith's home. Meridith was told to participate in a sex game, or she would be killed. She was stabbed repeatedly with the chef's knife and died.
To confuse the police they made it look like a burgular had broken in, and this anonymous burgular killed Kercher.
Everything above is disinformation. If you have any skepticism when you read this synopsis, you will see that it just doesn't make sense, and seems to be something that would not happen in real life.
The guilter's posts are a very indirect way to make the rumors of Amanda's guilt unacceptable.
Read more: The Amanda Knox Haters Society: How They Learned to Hate Me Too | TIME.com http://world.time.com/2013/03/29/th...ow-they-learned-to-hate-me-too/#ixzz2kUFeIEUC

Gogerty-Marriott pays handsomely to make guilters look like this. Machiavelli pales in comparison.

 

[acbytesla]

The University for Foreigneers may offer certificate for proficiency in Italian language. It may offer study credits valid at other universities, but in an extremely limited set of subjects.
Now it has recently improved and developed also some real academic courses so maybe I should correct myself and say you are right if you say that now it's a university.
However, it mainly functions not as a university - its students are mostly language students not students of its academic courses - and Knox was not attending it as a university, but as a language school. She would be offered language proficiency credits. That she might later use in her study plan at the university of Washington.
But this can hardly be called an academic semester. It's a study for language certificates.

Not surprisingly, you don't have a clue what you are talking about. Since when is learning a foreign language NOT ACADEMIC? And why would someone attending one of the most prestigious Universities in the US go to Perugia to study anything other than to learn Italian?

http://studyabroad.washington.edu/index.cfm?FuseAction=Programs.ViewProgram&Program_ID=10462

University for Foreigners in Perugia

Location: Perugia, Italy
Academic Terms: Autumn Quarter (A), Winter Quarter (W), Spring Quarter (Sp), Summer Quarter (S)
Credits: 12-18 UW credits per quarter
Eligibility: 2.75 GPA preferred
Study Abroad Advisor: Mike Renes, renesm@uw.edu
Application Deadline: March 15 (A), September 15 (W), December 15 (Sp), March 15 (S)
Program Highlights: This program is geared to students who would like to focus specifically on improving their Italian language and culture skills. Courses will be taken at the University for Foreigners in Perugia, which is the most prestigious language school for non-native speakers in Italy.

Academics

The University for Foreigners in Perugia offers courses in Italian language and culture at basic, intermediate and advanced levels of Italian:

First Level Beginners Course [A1]

Second Level Beginners Course [A2]

First Level Intermediate Course [B1]

Second Level Intermediate Course [B2]

First Level Advanced Course [C1]

Second Level Advanced Course [C1+]

Second Level Advanced Course [C2]

In addition to its for-credit language courses, the University for Foreigners offers other non-credit activities, such as seminars, lectures, roundtables and inexpensive excursions to a variety of sites around Italy. Students also have the opportunity to involve themselves in sports, gyms, choruses, orchestras, etc.

It is mandatory that students take at least two months (8 weeks) of courses, complete all academic coursework for the program and submit a transcript to UW Study Abroad to receive credits upon their return.

Prior to the beginning of the program, the University for Foreigners will require that students take a placement test and will place them into the course levels that best fit their Italian language abilities. Students will then attend language and culture courses for 25-30 hours per week. In order to receive UW credit for the program, UW students must successfully pass a final examination.

 

[RWVBWL]

Courses will be taken at the University for Foreigners in Perugia, which is the most prestigious language school for non-native speakers in Italy?

Wow,
it'd figure that an Honor Student would want to learn Italian there...