Continuation Part Six: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Bill Williams]

Admit? It's obvious that the C&V is before the court. Even if it wasn't, the defence would have a right to submit it. They have the right to submit everything they want. Thus, including the C&V report. I'ts obvious.

But what the implication of that? C&V are no longer court appointed experts. So what's the point?
It is indeed before the Nencini's court, and it is discredited and died with the quashing of Hellmann verdict.
That is also obvious.
How could the C&V's arguments survive to that Supreme Court ruling?

Again, one of your countless twisting of arguments, your false logical dicothomies.

What about your keystrokes Bill, instead?
When would YOU make an admission? Take a position? Quote something? Talk about something directly? I mean any position of yours. Not a devious attempt to misreport someone else.

Sigh. You were doing so well. Mach.... get some sleep, be fresh in the morning and then take a look at the two highlighted comments above.

 

[Machiavelli]

Who is this drug dealer? Did any of this come up in the trial?

The trial was already over when he was convicted.

 

[Diocletus]

The trial was already over when he was convicted.

Curatalo didn't have a phone.

 

[acbytesla]

I do not suppose; we know it for certain: Amanda and Rudy both admitted to knowing each other for long before she met Sollecito.

Sure, they knew each other for a long time...LMAO. Amanda moved to Perugia precisely 42 days before the murder. A total of 6 weeks.

And they met exactly one time. Some say it was three times but two of those times was the day they met in the street (while Rudy was with boys downstairs) and the boys came home to the cottage and Amanda and Meredith joined all the boys downstairs. There is no one that testified that Rudy and Amanda spoke to each other longer than a couple of minutes. At no time were Amanda and Rudy known to be alone together. The other is very much in dispute. Rudy was at also at Le Chic when Amanda was working there.

That is all.

 

[acbytesla]

The woman I met was named Elizabeth Kendall. It was her VW Beetle that Bundy used when he did the murders at Lake Sammamish, and she was pretty certain that he chose his victims because they looked so much like her teen daughter. I'm sure the book is out of print, but King County Libraries used to have a copy on the shelves.

Show me anybody at all -- even one person -- who has similarly said that either Amanda or Raffaele were disturbing personalities, before or after this travesty of justice. Nobody. Nada.

Oh, wait . . . I forgot all the people online who feel qualified to discuss their personalities without having met them.

You're right on Kwill. What book are you talking about? Ann Rule's? There have been lots of books about Bundy

 

[Mary_H]

<snip>Having hight disturbance fines is consistent with being a honor student at the University of Washington?
Abandoning university courses; then, decide move to another city without any university-planned study course, starting unrelated attending of a non-university institute by your own choice instead of following academic percourses, is that typical of a honor student?
Leaving your job at the BUndestag after the first day of work, is that typical of a honor student?
Drifting to Perugia attracted by the legend of the local student party life, without even knowing which institute is the university in that city, is that typical of honor students?
Fail to perform at work because of wasting time on flirting with clients, as Knox used to do while hired at Lumumba's pub, is that typical of honor students?
You see, it's so a habitual claim to hear Knox be called a honor student, that one even may forget to ask evidence of it. Is there any evidence, by the way, that Knox was ever a honor student at the University of Washington?

Is there any evidence of any of the claims you just made? If so, let's see it.

Well, apart the number (that was given by Knox herself, anyway) we have testimonies which describe her way of building relations.

Can you provide quotes or citations so that we can see these ourselves? Please provide the academic records of the witnesses, so we can decide whether or not their testimony is reliable.

Well, she gave her phone number to a drug dealer for a reason, I suppose. They also exchanged phone rings the day prior to the murder and the following day. I don't want to necessarily infer that the reason for the drug dealer having her number was that she wanted to buy drugs.
The scenarios on possible reasons for attending a drug dealer are not in a very big number anyway. I tend to exclude shared academic interests.

Again, you make a claim for which you have no evidence? Did a drug dealer really have her number? What's his name? I want to ask him it she gave it to him or if he got it from someone else.

 

[Bill Williams]

You are lying, Bill. Lying as usual. I never said Guede was Amanda's pimp. It's one of your countless falsehoods, your misreporting of sources; diversions based on malicious misreporting of other people's statements.

Does this mean you're not bringing wine to dinner?

 

[Diocletus]

The trial was already over when he was convicted.

It really wouldn't be surprising if her number was on a drug dealers phone. At least half of all people in perugia are drug dealers or on drugs. Even Nara.

 

[RWVBWL]

Who gave her permission? And why?

Yes, but is this not the same Stefanoni who gift-wrapped the mop? And stored the crime scene evidence in the house freezer. And, etc.

At a minimum, Stefanoni knowingly contributed to constructing a pitifully flimsy case against two innocents, based on trumped-up, poorly collected and possibly falsified evidence. She would need to be profoundly stupid, just for starters, not to know what she was doing.

I'll grant you that she was goose-stepping to her superiors' orders, but that makes her no less guilty of gross moral turpitude.

Didn't Doc Stefanoni have to get special permission to come down from Rome to join the task force investigating Miss Kercher's slaughter?

Weird how she was also tasked with testing the evidence she herself helped collect...


Heya Machiavelli,
is that standard operating procedure in Italy?

 

[Mary_H]

Didn't Doc Stefanoni have to get special permission to come down from Rome to join the task force investigating Miss Kercher's slaughter?

Weird how she was also tasked with testing the evidence she herself helped collect...


Heya Machiavelli,
is that standard operating procedure in Italy?

I have a feeling Italians do not have a phrase for "conflict of interest."

 

[kwill]

Having hight disturbance fines is consistent with being a honor student at the University of Washington?

Fines, plural? Don't stretch the evidence, my friend. Remember, it's you who said: . . . you make a claim, you word such claim as if it was a fact, and you have no interesting in knowing if it's true or not.

This devious propaganda is your activity.

Abandoning university courses; then, decide move to another city without any university-planned study course, starting unrelated attending of a non-university institute by your own choice instead of following academic percourses, is that typical of a honor student?

Um . . . this is an odd way to describe a very common junior year practice here in the USA, which we usually refer to as studying abroad.

Again, you: . . . you make a claim, you word such claim as if it was a fact, and you have no interesting in knowing if it's true or not.

This devious propaganda is your activity.

Leaving your job at the BUndestag after the first day of work, is that typical of a honor student?

Devious. Propaganda. Etc. People do leave jobs that aren't a good fit, and smart people leave them right away. What were you suggesting, I wonder?

Drifting to Perugia attracted by the legend of the local student party life, without even knowing which institute is the university in that city, is that typical of honor students?

Now that's just silly. She enrolled through a University of Washington program before she left . . . are you deviously suggesting that she just randomly went to Perugia because it was a known party town? That would be sort of like making a claim as if it were a fact with no interest in its actual truth.

Fail to perform at work because of wasting time on flirting with clients, as Knox used to do while hired at Lumumba's pub, is that typical of honor students?

And yet he didn't fire her. Look at devious you, suggesting defamatory propaganda.

You see, it's so a habitual claim to hear Knox be called a honor student, that one even may forget to ask evidence of it. Is there any evidence, by the way, that Knox was ever a honor student at the University of Washington?

You'll be glad to hear that she's enrolled there even now, though I think grades are not given out to random devious internet personalities who suggest that she's lying about this. It's neither more nor less important, is it, than Stefanoni's credentials?

Well, apart the number (that was given by Knox herself, anyway) we have testimonies which describe her way of building relations.

What a dark, devious suggestion. Do you know something you aren't telling us? Or are you just insinuating claims as if they were fact?

Well, she gave her phone number to a drug dealer for a reason, I suppose.

And here I've been under the impression that you were such a strictly logical man. How do you know she gave her number to him? Has no one ever passed along a phone number to another person? Does your phone not have a "share" button on the contact list? Never mind. I see that we're still busy with devious propaganda.

They also exchanged phone rings the day prior to the murder and the following day. I don't want to necessarily infer that the reason for the drug dealer having her number was that she wanted to buy drugs.

Yes, because that would be wrong! For all you know, she got a call from a number she didn't recognize and called it back to see who was bothering her. But that wouldn't forward the agenda of making defamatory claims as if they were fact.

The scenarios on possible reasons for attending a drug dealer are not in a very big number anyway. I tend to exclude shared academic interests.

You tend to exclude shared academic interests! That's by far my favorite line of this post. A perfect blend of snooty intellectual and disapproving older man.

You ought to stick to muddling up DNA records conversations, Machiavelli. You're much less transparent in that mode.

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

The trial was already over when he was convicted.

Who was he? What is his name? What kind of drugs was he dealing?

 

[kwill]

You're right on Kwill. What book are you talking about? Ann Rule's? There have been lots of books about Bundy

No, Ann Rule's book about Bundy is still in print. This one was written by the hapless girlfriend herself: Elizabeth Kendall. It was called The Phantom Prince: My Life with Ted Bundy. I'd link, but I'm still New Blood here & the site won't let me.

I just checked, and it looks like somebody's got it checked out from the King County library.

 

[Strozzi]

Who is this drug dealer? Did any of this come up in the trial?

I'll ask a few questions about drug connections:

If Amanda had the phone number of a drug dealer, did Amanda know he is a dealer? Next question: How did she meet him? Through Laura or a friend of Laura's? Or was it through Filomena or Filomena's friend?

Mach, while we are on this topic, let me ask who supplied drugs to Laura and Filomena? Laura taught Amanda how to roll a joint and cheered Amanda on for getting it rolled the way Laura instructed her. Amanda didn't know how before Laura taught her. Is that why Filomena referred to Amanda as "the stupid one?" Because she didn't even know how to roll a joint? (I bet Meredith knew how to roll one!)

Filomena rushed home when Amanda called to tell her the window in Filomena's bedroom was broken and she couldn't locate Meredith and Meredith's door was locked. When Filomena arrived at the house the first thing she did was go into her room. Was she checking to see if her drug stash was stolen? Or if the Postal Police had already discovered it in her room? Is that why Filomena immediately got a lawyer for herself? I read that her lawyer got to the house even before Filomena got there. That's quick service! After the police ordered everyone out of the house, Filomena snuck back into her room. Was it just to grab her laptop or did she also grab her drug stash? Was it Filomena or Laura who instructed Amanda not to let the police know about the drug use in the house? I guess if Filomena and Laura are apprentice lawyers working for a Perugia law firm, they could be in some legal or licensing trouble if found posessing drugs, supplying drugs, or for coaching a witness (Amanda) to lie about drug use in the house. If either of them supplied drugs to Meredith or Amanda, does that make them dealers under Italian law? Since they were both on the house lease, under Italian laws would that make them keepers of a drug house?

When Mignini was questioning Filomena on how she closed her outside shutters, Filomena at first said she pulled them partially closed but did not close them all the way. Mignini questioned her on this over and over and, wouldn't you know it, by the time he was done Filomena agreed she had closed them pretty snug! No wonder Filomena was pliable in Mignini's hands. He had potential drug issues hanging over her. Must be hard for an apprentice lawyer in Perugia to keep a license when the chief prosecutor has a drug issue hanging over your head.

 

[acbytesla]

No, Ann Rule's book about Bundy is still in print. This one was written by the hapless girlfriend herself: Elizabeth Kendall. It was called The Phantom Prince: My Life with Ted Bundy. I'd link, but I'm still New Blood here & the site won't let me.

I just checked, and it looks like somebody's got it checked out from the King County library.

Thanks, I'll check it out. I have so many bizarre little connections to Bundy. I lived in the same apartment building near the UW as him (although at a different time) My older sister and her boyfriend were both detained at Lake Samamish when one of Bundy's victims disappeared from there and all hell broke loose. . (he actually looked a lot like Ted...dark hair, thin, and he also drove a VW Beetle and had a cast on his arm..so, so weird)

 

[Bill Williams]

I'll ask a few questions about drug connections:

If Amanda had the phone number of a drug dealer, did Amanda know he is a dealer? Next question: How did she meet him? Through Laura or a friend of Laura's? Or was it through Filomena or Filomena's friend?

Mach, while we are on this topic, let me ask who supplied drugs to Laura and Filomena? Laura taught Amanda how to roll a joint and cheered Amanda on for getting it rolled the way Laura instructed her. Amanda didn't know how before Laura taught her. Is that why Filomena referred to Amanda as "the stupid one?" Because she didn't even know how to roll a joint? (I bet Meredith knew how to roll one!)

Filomena rushed home when Amanda called to tell her the window in Filomena's bedroom was broken and she couldn't locate Meredith and Meredith's door was locked. When Filomena arrived at the house the first thing she did was go into her room. Was she checking to see if her drug stash was stolen? Or if the Postal Police had already discovered it in her room? Is that why Filomena immediately got a lawyer for herself? I read that her lawyer got to the house even before Filomena got there. That's quick service! After the police ordered everyone out of the house, Filomena snuck back into her room. Was it just to grab her laptop or did she also grab her drug stash? Was it Filomena or Laura who instructed Amanda not to let the police know about the drug use in the house? I guess if Filomena and Laura are apprentice lawyers working for a Perugia law firm, they could be in some legal or licensing trouble if found posessing drugs, supplying drugs, or for coaching a witness (Amanda) to lie about drug use in the house. If either of them supplied drugs to Meredith or Amanda, does that make them dealers under Italian law? Since they were both on the house lease, under Italian laws would that make them keepers of a drug house?

When Mignini was questioning Filomena on how she closed her outside shutters, Filomena at first said she pulled them partially closed but did not close them all the way. Mignini questioned her on this over and over and, wouldn't you know it, by the time he was done Filomena agreed she had closed them pretty snug! No wonder Filomena was pliable in Mignini's hands. He had potential drug issues hanging over her. Must be hard for an apprentice lawyer in Perugia to keep a license when the chief prosecutor has a drug issue hanging over your head.

One doesn't have to be terribly conspiratorial about this either. Filomena was asked about her drug use when testifying. Her answer, "Yes, I have sinned."

Did Filomena have the name of a drug dealer in her phone?

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

No, Ann Rule's book about Bundy is still in print. This one was written by the hapless girlfriend herself: Elizabeth Kendall. It was called The Phantom Prince: My Life with Ted Bundy. I'd link, but I'm still New Blood here & the site won't let me.

I just checked, and it looks like somebody's got it checked out from the King County library.

From the rare book collection no doubt.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Phantom-P...eywords=phantom+prince+my+life+with+ted+bundy

I was hoping for a $3.99 Kindle edition...

 

[acbytesla]

From the rare book collection no doubt.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Phantom-P...eywords=phantom+prince+my+life+with+ted+bundy

I was hoping for a $3.99 Kindle edition...

Is the price for this book insane??

 

[kwill]

Thanks, I'll check it out. I have so many bizarre little connections to Bundy. I lived in the same apartment building near the UW as him (although at a different time) My older sister and her boyfriend were both detained at Lake Samamish when one of Bundy's victims disappeared from there and all hell broke loose. . (he actually looked a lot like Ted...dark hair, thin, and he also drove a VW Beetle and had a cast on his arm..so, so weird)

That is utterly creepy. Here's how my conversation with Elizabeth Kendall went. It was 1987 or 88, not long after I came to Seattle. We were at a party at someone's house -- mostly AA people, so not exactly a wild scene. She and I got to talking over food, and she said something vague about having "really, really bad luck with men." She seemed perfectly ordinary & I didn't think much about it.

Later the guy who was our mutual friend (and who was hosting the party) mentioned that he'd seen us talking . . . and in that conversation I found out who she was and that she'd published a book. At the time it was easy to get from the library. Really, really bad luck doesn't even get near it.

Looks like there's a reference copy at the Seattle Public Library downtown.

I'm out of New Blood land!

 

[acbytesla]

That is utterly creepy. Here's how my conversation with Elizabeth Kendall went. It was 1987 or 88, not long after I came to Seattle. We were at a party at someone's house -- mostly AA people, so not exactly a wild scene. She and I got to talking over food, and she said something vague about having "really, really bad luck with men." She seemed perfectly ordinary & I didn't think much about it.

Later the guy who was our mutual friend (and who was hosting the party) mentioned that he'd seen us talking . . . and in that conversation I found out who she was and that she'd published a book. At the time it was easy to get from the library. Really, really bad luck doesn't even get near it.

Looks like there's a reference copy at the Seattle Public Library downtown.

I'm out of New Blood land!

This will be an excuse to visit the new library downtown. I haven't been to the downtown branch since they replaced the old one. The new library is an architectural icon whereas the old library building was very nondescript.