Continuation Part Six: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Dan O.]

This is why we really need a wiki or something, because in the ~95000 posts dedicated to this topic we've been over this repeatedly but there is no easy way to direct people to the relevant discussion.

Try this one: http://amanda-knox.wikispaces.com/

 

[Machiavelli]

The "so what" is that the RIS Carabinieri did it the proper way, the Florence prosecution (unlike Comodi) did not conspire with the RIS Carabinieri to suppress evidence, and Judge Nencini, unlike judges Massei and Hellmann, were not caught in the precarious position of having either to "out" criminal behaviour of the prosecution, or to ignore it and push on to their own conclusions.....

I don't undersatnd a word in the above raving.

Vogt's comments are clear and in the public record. The fact that YOU are not countering by posting her comments which refute what she's obviously said, say all I need to hear.

Do you know how a quote looks like? It looks like this:

The forensic scientists determined that the DNA in question was derived from “biological fluids” of Amanda Knox.

Do you know that trace I was found in the insertion between the blade and the handle?
What do you think the word "body fluid" may suggest, when referred to the blade insertion in a knife handle?

For instance, look what you did with the Satanic rite claim and Barbie Nadeau. You ended up calling Nadeau an "approximate reporter".

An approximate reported on this case compared to Andrea Vogt. Your little scissors cut pieces.
And what did you do with the Satanic rite claim?
How did you support your claim? You ended up admitting you are a person who doesn't care to know if his claims are true or not.

Look what you did with Andrea Vogt's unretracted reporting of "I was there"? You eventually got around to saying that the reason why Andrea did not need to retract was because Knox and her mother were, in your view, speaking in "Mafia code".

Actually, I said much more about you and your pretension to pick up a report by Andrea Vogt and ask her to retract one point. The chutzpah of someone who is silent about CNN, ABC, Burleigh, Castelfranco & C., and than dares to point his finger to one statement from Vogt...

The truth is this - Vogt now believes that C&V is before the Nencini court.

C&V report is before the Nencini court. Why shouldn't it be?
But it doesn't have any credibility before the Nencini court; they didn't appoint them, and Nencini is not Hellmann.
It's like any other report submitted by the defence experts and the parties experts reports. They are all there, before the court.
But why do you use the word "valid"? What does that mean? If you mean the various reports are all equally valid, then C&V are as valid as the others, too. The Stefanoni reports are valid too. The Novelli report is valid too. The Torricelli report is valid too.
But this is probably not what you mean by "valid".
And probably not even Vogt ever use that word: it's your misreporting others' words, as usual.

 

[js202]

In fairness I think Stefanoni was trapped in a web led by Mignini and his main DNA consultant Renato Biondo. You may remember Biondo as Stefanoni's boss. The person who reviewed Stefanonis work in the first trial and surprisingly found it scientifically safe and sound.

The more we see in this whole affair it seems to be more about corruption and less about incompetence. No other conclusion can be reasonably made.

Yes, but is this not the same Stefanoni who gift-wrapped the mop? And stored the crime scene evidence in the house freezer. And, etc.

At a minimum, Stefanoni knowingly contributed to constructing a pitifully flimsy case against two innocents, based on trumped-up, poorly collected and possibly falsified evidence. She would need to be profoundly stupid, just for starters, not to know what she was doing.

I'll grant you that she was goose-stepping to her superiors' orders, but that makes her no less guilty of gross moral turpitude.

 

[Diocletus]

About 1,000.



1.3% x 163,287 = 2122.731/2 (genders) = 1061.3655

Whoever thinks that Guede would be properly described as "beautiful" should really have themselves examined by a Dr. And I mean a real one.

 

[Diocletus]

What do you think the word "body fluid" may suggest, when referred to the blade insertion in a knife handle?
.

Well, we're talking about Italian courts here, so my guess is that they will decide that it's Amanda Knox's semen.

 

[Kestrel]

Why would they use sirens? They received a call from an older person that she had received a call warning of a bomb in the toilet. It boggles the mind that they responded at all, much less with sirens blaring late at night.

My argument doesn't depend on sirens. That was just a convenient way of expressing the idea that Guede heard or saw the officers responding to the villa.

The direct route from the cottage to Guede's home took him past his places like the basketball court where he was well known. The path outside the city wall was likely to be deserted and led to a side gate near his home. If the gate was locked he could continue on and enter the old city by the next gate. That path takes him right past where the cell phones were found. On entering the old city, he might be noticed, but he would not be coming from the area where a murder had just occurred.

 

[acbytesla]

You don't think Vecchiotti is the problem?
I do think Vecchiotti is the problem.

Vecchiotti is the problem only because she doesn't back up the party line. Like Hellmann, you have taken to disparaging them both because they are unwilling go along with this moronic farce.

You think Vogt is the problem?
I don't think Vogt is the problem.
Believe me I do believe that.

Vogt is a shill. But hardly the real problem. The real problem is Mignini and the moronic Italian judicial system.

Now you falsely report that I said Guede may be Knox's pimp. It's not the first time that I corrected your misreporting.
I explicitly said that Guede could NOT be Knox's pimp - at best, Guede could have been Knox's client, if Knox was a prostitute.

And you say that it is us that twist things around? Seriously Machaivelli?

but I never said Knox had the moral of a prostitute or that she was a prostitute: again, you are falsely reporting my words.
Knox was a party girl, not a prostitute. A prostitute has a different moral, she does things for money not for fun.
And Knox does not have any particular moral qualification: she just had her attitude, and her lifestile, like legitimately any person has.
But having casual sex with Guede would be consistent with her lifestyle, and also with the information we have (in via Garibaldi in Perugia she met a young man she described as 'the most beautiful black man she ever met', and they promised to each other they would meet again as she would return from Germany; how many black man do you think you can meet in via Garibaldi in Perugia? And what was his name?).

It wasn't Rudy. I don't think anyone would refer to him as the most beautiful black man. He many not have been ugly, but he certainly wasn't the most beautiful anything.

You are constantly peddling your obscene smear campaign and everyone else is to blame?

I also recall that Knox's phone number was found in the cell phone memory of a drug dealer, who was convicted.

So? Did Knox know that the guy was a drug dealer? And even if she did, does that mean she was looking for drugs? Or does it mean that the guy was looking to sell Amanda drugs?

Don't forget that every single person living in that cottage both upstairs and down including Filomena, Laura and saintly Meredith all smoked grass. Why does Amanda's sex life or casual use of drugs even bear mentioning unless you are saying it to smear Amanda?

 

[Bill Williams]

C&V report is before the Nencini court. Why shouldn't it be? But it doesn't have any credibility before the Nencini court; they didn't appoint them, and Nencini is not Hellmann.
It's like any other report submitted by the defence experts and the parties experts reports. They are all there, before the court.
But why do you use the word "valid"? What does that mean? If you mean the various reports are all equally valid, then C&V are as valid as the others, too. The Stefanoni reports are valid too. The Novelli report is valid too. The Torricelli report is valid too.
But this is probably not what you mean by "valid".
And probably not even Vogt ever use that word: it's your misreporting others' words, as usual.

Can you then take this highlighted part and communicate it (with your Yummi account) to your guilter friends who say it is discredited and died with the quashing of the Hellmann verdict.

Did it REALLY take you all these keystrokes to admit this?

 

[Machiavelli]

Srsly, Knox was a party girl, Knox having sex with Guede would be consistent with her life style, Knox's phone # was in the cell of a convicted drug dealer . . . this is nothing but devious propaganda.

I take this as a conceding tha these things ar true. They are proven after all.

You leave out certain information, don't you? Knox was an honor student.

Having hight disturbance fines is consistent with being a honor student at the University of Washington?
Abandoning university courses; then, decide move to another city without any university-planned study course, starting unrelated attending of a non-university institute by your own choice instead of following academic percourses, is that typical of a honor student?
Leaving your job at the BUndestag after the first day of work, is that typical of a honor student?
Drifting to Perugia attracted by the legend of the local student party life, without even knowing which institute is the university in that city, is that typical of honor students?
Fail to perform at work because of wasting time on flirting with clients, as Knox used to do while hired at Lumumba's pub, is that typical of honor students?
You see, it's so a habitual claim to hear Knox be called a honor student, that one even may forget to ask evidence of it. Is there any evidence, by the way, that Knox was ever a honor student at the University of Washington?

Knox had a total of 7 lovers, well within the norm for her age and demographic (are all average American students party girls?).

Well, apart the number (that was given by Knox herself, anyway) we have testimonies which describe her way of building relations.

Knox is responsible for a drug dealer having her phone number, though there is no evidence whatsoever to suggest that she actually bought any drugs.

Well, she gave her phone number to a drug dealer for a reason, I suppose. They also exchanged phone rings the day prior to the murder and the following day. I don't want to necessarily infer that the reason for the drug dealer having her number was that she wanted to buy drugs.
The scenarios on possible reasons for attending a drug dealer are not in a very big number anyway. I tend to exclude shared academic interests.

 

[Caper]

Mach.... how do you suppose Amanda knew Rudy anyway?

 

[Mary_H]

Well, we're talking about Italian courts here, so my guess is that they will decide that it's Amanda Knox's semen.

 

[Diocletus]

Is there any evidence, by the way, that Knox was ever a honor student at the University of Washington.

No, but I did hear that she has a PhD from Frederick II uni.

 

[Machiavelli]

Can you then take this highlighted part and communicate it (with your Yummi account) to your guilter friends who say it is discredited and died with the quashing of the Hellmann verdict.

Did it REALLY take you all these keystrokes to admit this?

Admit? It's obvious that the C&V is before the court. Even if it wasn't, the defence would have a right to submit it. They have the right to submit everything they want. Thus, including the C&V report. I'ts obvious.

But what the implication of that? C&V are no longer court appointed experts. So what's the point?
It is indeed before the Nencini's court, and it is discredited and died with the quashing of Hellmann verdict.
That is also obvious.
How could the C&V's arguments survive to that Supreme Court ruling?

Again, one of your countless twisting of arguments, your false logical dicothomies.

What about your keystrokes Bill, instead?
When would YOU make an admission? Take a position? Quote something? Talk about something directly? I mean any position of yours. Not a devious attempt to misreport someone else.

 

[kwill]

You nailed it there Kwill.

I took a class at the UW taught by Bob Keppel. He was one of the lead Seattle detectives on the Ted Bundy case. He interviewed Bundy multiple times including days before his execution in Florida. He also was a lead member of the Green River Task force. According to Keppel, Bundy was social to a degree. He was quite involved in the Republican party and was very friendly in social situations involving his career and work. He definitely had friends and was well liked by some people. But he was also known to be cruel and very much a loner when he began his obsession with killing. So for all the people that said he was a nice guy, there were others who said. not really.

The woman I met was named Elizabeth Kendall. It was her VW Beetle that Bundy used when he did the murders at Lake Sammamish, and she was pretty certain that he chose his victims because they looked so much like her teen daughter. I'm sure the book is out of print, but King County Libraries used to have a copy on the shelves.

Show me anybody at all -- even one person -- who has similarly said that either Amanda or Raffaele were disturbing personalities, before or after this travesty of justice. Nobody. Nada.

Oh, wait . . . I forgot all the people online who feel qualified to discuss their personalities without having met them.

 

[Machiavelli]

Mach.... how do you suppose Amanda knew Rudy anyway?

I do not suppose; we know it for certain: Amanda and Rudy both admitted to knowing each other for long before she met Sollecito.

 

[Bill Williams]

I take this as a conceding tha these things ar true. They are proven after all.



Having hight disturbance fines is consistent with being a honor student at the University of Washington?
Abandoning university courses; then, decide move to another city without any university-planned study course, starting unrelated attending of a non-university institute by your own choice instead of following academic percourses, is that typical of a honor student?
Leaving your job at the BUndestag after the first day of work, is that typical of a honor student?
Drifting to Perugia attracted by the legend of the local student party life, without even knowing which institute is the university in that city, is that typical of honor students?
Fail to perform at work because of wasting time on flirting with clients, as Knox used to do while hired at Lumumba's pub, is that typical of honor students?
You see, it's so a habitual claim to hear Knox be called a honor student, that one even may forget to ask evidence of it. Is there any evidence, by the way, that Knox was ever a honor student at the University of Washington?



Well, apart the number (that was given by Knox herself, anyway) we have testimonies which describe her way of building relations.



Well, she gave her phone number to a drug dealer for a reason, I suppose. They also exchanged phone rings the day prior to the murder and the following day. I don't want to necessarily infer that the reason for the drug dealer having her number was that she wanted to buy drugs.
The scenarios on possible reasons for attending a drug dealer are not in a very big number anyway. I tend to exclude shared academic interests.

Seriously, dude.... get your mind out of the gutter.... did Amanda Knox once cut you off in traffic? What's YOUR beef with someone who you've never met, to make you want to hurl these ad hominems at her.... repeat, someone you've never met?

Seriously, I'm beginning to think that it was you, this afternoon, who cut ME off in traffic!

Get some sleep Machiavelli..... seriously. I do not mean this to tease you.

 

[Bill Williams]

I do not suppose; we know it for certain: Amanda and Rudy both admitted to knowing each other for long before she met Sollecito.

Mach - it must be 4 am where you are... you're beginning to plat whack a mole.

 

[Diocletus]

Admit
How could the C&V's arguments survive to that Supreme Court ruling?
.

Simple. Just show the video. It makes people laugh.

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

Well, she gave her phone number to a drug dealer for a reason, I suppose. They also exchanged phone rings the day prior to the murder and the following day.

Who is this drug dealer? Did any of this come up in the trial?

 

[Machiavelli]

*I'm still chuckling about the way you avoid dealing with your previous theories that Guede was Knox's pimp, which morphed into Knox trading sec for drugs which meant your claim about prostitution was somewhat mitigated, and now you're saying ti was simply a "party-girl liaison".
(...)

You are lying, Bill. Lying as usual. I never said Guede was Amanda's pimp. It's one of your countless falsehoods, your misreporting of sources; diversions based on malicious misreporting of other people's statements.