Continuation Part Six: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Kaosium]

With regards to the 'negative controls requested or not' discussion. This just reinforces the view that the forensic science laboratory procedures are of poor quality and Machiaveli does not understand the practical nature of doing this stuff. When you run an analysis the run is your result; positive controls, negative controls and your ca libration curve if your analysis requires one. As I have said before, you can no more cut out a single result, from the run than it is valid to crop a photo and present it in evidence. You can show the whole phot and a close up of a scene of interest, but giving an isolated result is just disingenuous. It implies there is something you are trying to conceal, a slight of hand. As has been argued in certain circumstances even previous runs are relevant if there might be a hang over contamination. Specifically requesting the controls should not be necessary, they are part of the result. I cannot emphasise to much that you cannot interpret the results without the full set of data, this should be automatic. If there are not the control values the result is meaningless. If you ran a test and forgot the controls, or the results of the controls are outside acceptable limits you have no result. You might as well have used a Ouija board (apparently under Italian jurisprudence equally acceptable as evidence to the court).

Thank you for your contributions, I've found them of great interest. I do have a question for you: what specifically do you suppose might be Stefanoni's reason for refusing to turn over the electronic data files?

As an aside; I think interacting with Goeffrey is pointless. It is like having discussions with believers in ID or HIV denialists. There will never be convincing scientific proof. At a fundamental level they know the truth and any supporting evidence is 'high quality' and any contradicting evidence will have a fundamental flaw.

Perhaps having 'faith' (or more accurately hope!) in the power of human reason means guys like me resemble little gerbils running around the wheel in my cage to the amusement of others, but some of us can't resist the impulse to try to see if their dis/misinformation is corrected if they might even change their minds.

 

[Kaosium]

well this rinaldi guy is supposed to be an expert in footprint identification.

that is all he does all day. lol so why would he be wrong.

Read the article I linked.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Rinaldi and the two parallel lines

well this rinaldi guy is supposed to be an expert in footprint identification.

that is all he does all day. lol so why would he be wrong.

You can read the Vinci report, and you can look in Massei for a discussion of the two parallel lines that Rinaldi turned into something compatible with Amanda's footprint. That alone is enough to call Rinaldi's competence into question. I'll respond further when you let me know that you have read up on this matter.

 

[snook1]

I will expect an apology from each of you when Knox is convicted. lol

I won't gloat....much. lol

Why are you here?

Are you aware that the evidence from Hellmann trial will be added to the evidence from Massei trial and will be available for consideration at Nencini's trial?

Are you aware that nothing is going to be the same as it was back in 2009 when they were convicted? Not? Let me fill you in - there is C&V - and even if not decisive for guilters, it's still a huge report heavily criticizing Stefanonin's findings used by Massei to convict them. It ain't gonna be that easy this time, pal. Mark my words.

If Nencini ends up convicting them, watch what's gonna come next. I think you should really try to get to know these nine words, as you gonna be seeing them alot in the future - USA denies the extradition of Amanda Knox to Italy.

 

[Kaosium]

nah, i'm not getting down in the weeds on footprint analysis.

i'm more of a big picture person.

two weird people plus drug use plus knowledge of victim alone plus door key plus false accusation = guilty, guilt guilty

So, just where does Rudy Guede fit into your scenario? You know him, the one who left his traces inside Meredith, on her clothes, on her pillow, on her purse and her floor was covered by his shoeprints inside and outside the murder room.

Doesn't it strike you as odd that in your scenario Amanda must have called the police in to look at the evidence Rudy left before he skipped town, but when broken down to a blubbering mess she gave them that weak-ass nonsense about Patrick Lumumba that the police said of afterward:

"Initially the American gave a version of events we knew was not correct. She buckled and made an admission of facts we knew were correct and from that we were able to bring them in."

You know what they're talking about? The text message and Patrick Lumumba, which we all know now had nothing to do with the murder. That was their facts they 'knew to be correct' and they kept after her until she 'buckled' (and even believed them for a while) and gave them what they wanted.

Here's another source with the same account but a slightly different translation and more of Arturo di Felice's statements:

The police chief, Arturo De Felice, said Knox had "crumbled and confessed" under intense questioning. "There were holes in her alibi and her mobile phone records were crucial," he said. Police also found text messages from Lumumba, fixing a meeting between them at 8.35pm on November 1, the night Miss Kercher died.

If you do happen to read that article, note also just how many lies the police told the press in the beginning.

 

[Strozzi]

I think there is enough evidence to hang Raffe, with the footprint and the dna on bra clasp.

LondonJohn, et al, I think we are being played by a Goeffrey with an agenda. Goeffrey says he has followed this case for 3 years. He demonstrates at times detailed knowledge and at other times expresses ignorance with his questions which lead him to cavalierly make hang em comments about the defendants. Geoffrey, are you sure you don't know Dr. Tesla?

 

[Dan O.]

"The other knife, of which there is no description, was found in the garden of Sollecito's apartment." Daily Mail - Nov 8, 2007

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

So, just where does Rudy Guede fit into your scenario? You know him, the one who left his traces inside Meredith, on her clothes, on her pillow, on her purse and her floor was covered by his shoeprints inside and outside the murder room.

Heh. You're dealing with a "big picture person." You may have to start at the beginning and gird yourself for lengthy discussion, one that ranges from Rinaldi's footprint analysis to dinosaurs on Noah's Ark.

 

[acbytesla]

well this rinaldi guy is supposed to be an expert in footprint identification.

that is all he does all day. lol so why would he be wrong.

You're serious? Who in the world is an expert in footprint identification?? What makes one an expert? Is there a class Geoffrey? I bet it is not a very good living. How often does anyone need to make a footprint identification? How many cases has he testified about a footprint?

What's wrong Geoffey? Afraid to to take the blind test? Afraid that you might say that Rudy's print is the match? Or that you might not be able to tell?

 

[snook1]

All I know is I'm not placing myself at the crime scene if I wasn't there. I don't see any reason why the cops would want her to just make something up about Patrick or why she would feel compelled to do so.

In America, a white person accusing a black person of a crime that she is being questioned about = guilty lol

You're one tough cookie, Goeffrey.

How many times in your life you were interrogated by the police in a foreign country,with very limited language skills at the age of 20 without a lawyer when your friend of 6 weeks was killed?

 

[Supernaut]

So, just where does Rudy Guede fit into your scenario? You know him, the one who left his traces inside Meredith, on her clothes, on her pillow, on her purse and her floor was covered by his shoeprints inside and outside the murder room.

Doesn't it strike you as odd that in your scenario Amanda must have called the police in to look at the evidence Rudy left before he skipped town, but when broken down to a blubbering mess she gave them that weak-ass nonsense about Patrick Lumumba that the police said of afterward:



You know what they're talking about? The text message and Patrick Lumumba, which we all know now had nothing to do with the murder. That was their facts they 'knew to be correct' and they kept after her until she 'buckled' (and even believed them for a while) and gave them what they wanted.

Here's another source with the same account but a slightly different translation and more of Arturo di Felice's statements:



If you do happen to read that article, note also just how many lies the police told the press in the beginning.

Always makes me shake my head when I'm reminded of De Felici's monumental foot-in-mouth moment. Just how stupid must that man be?

ETA >>

"Initially the American gave a version of events we knew was not correct. She buckled and made an admission of facts we knew were correct and from that we were able to bring them in."

IMO every time someone parrots "she accused an innocent man", nothing more is required as a response than to fire this quote straight back at them.

 

[Antony]

well this rinaldi guy is supposed to be an expert in footprint identification.

that is all he does all day. lol so why would he be wrong.

What is the name of the technique he used to match the footprints and which forensic institutions recognise this technique? What are Rinaldi's qualifications related to using this technique?

 

[Grinder]

LondonJohn, et al, I think we are being played by a Goeffrey with an agenda. Goeffrey says he has followed this case for 3 years. He demonstrates at times detailed knowledge and at other times expresses ignorance with his questions which lead him to cavalierly make hang em comments about the defendants. Geoffrey, are you sure you don't know Dr. Tesla?

but there are so many Drs. associated with this case.

He is just making silly comments. He won't pay up when they are found not guilty.

 

[snook1]

but there are so many Drs. associated with this case.

 

[Supernaut]

Oh no! The "lols" are coming thick-and-fast now.

Ooooh!! It just makes me so angry I could just spit!

It's going to take every ounce of self-control I can muster not to rise to it!

LoL.

 

[Grinder]

What is the name of the technique he used to match the footprints and which forensic institutions recognise this technique? What are Rinaldi's qualifications related to using this technique?

I know. I know. The discredited Robbins technique.

 

[Bill Williams]

Rudy's already been found guilty. Nobody denies his part.

Sounds like the cops were mistaken and they simply believed Knox at the time when she accused Patrick. She did break down after they told her raffe wasn't giving her an alibi.

Were the cops ever questioned about this statement in court? Was Mignini? Seems like the defense lawyers would have brought it up if it was compelling as you claim it is.

That's the point, Cassazione had already ruled the statements inadmissible in relation to the murder. They mean nothing yet guilters keep referring to it in relation to the murder, not just the calunnia charge/conviction.

 

[Supernaut]

I know. I know. The discredited Robbins technique.

Was that the US "forensic shoe/footprint expert" who ended up completely disgraced?

 

[Bill Williams]

"In Judge Massei's court, Professor Vinci, Sollecito’s expert witness attempted to argue that the footprint was actually that of Guede, but this was rejected by the judges on the basis of the measurements shown above.[4] In addition, the court discounted the idea that Guede had ever been in his bare feet that evening. The visible shoe prints clearly showed that he had walked directly from Meredith’s room, down the hallway, and out of the door"

This is from the Murder of Meredidth wiki website.
Is this incorrect? Sounds like judges agreed with Rinaldi's findings.

That website also said a photoshopped pic of guede's foot was put out there on the internet. who knows.

I'm not sure why anyone would reference that website when one can read Massei for themselves. That wiki is a biased account, not of anything found at trial (incl. Massei's court), but is an accounting of what Mignini wanted the courts to find as factual. That wiki is stuck in a time-warp, pre Dec 2009.

There simply is now better information out there.

 

[Bill Williams]

I'll still be right about the conviction even if USA denies extradition.

I can't see Obama going for that because Knox accused an innocent black of murder, and there is another black man who has been jailed while the two rich white people are still free.

You're kidding, right? This is a trollish comment.