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Continuation Part Six: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

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It seems like if Rudy was a professional burglar he would have taken what he needed and got out of there rather than use the bathroom.

You would think so, wouldn't you. But Guede was acquainted with drugs and many criminals like to take things like meth amphetamine to give them extra energy and feelings of enhanced physical abilities. Amphetamines are stimulants, and also stimulate the bowels. [drug forum].

Here is Guede's speaking about it in his pre arrest Skype call:
I went to the bathroom. I really had to go take a ****. & So, I really had to take this ****,.

That is why he was in the bathroom. He really had to take a ****.

Edited by zooterkin: 
Edited for Rule 10. Do not attempt to evade the autocensor.
 
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In almost two months, there has been less than 2 days of trial. If Amanda was actually there, it would be a circus. But you should keep in mind, that this is actually typical in Italy. Berlusconi, Mignini, and countless others never show up for the appeals trials if they don't have to.

So true, in addition to not looking "guilty" by sitting in the accused chair. That alone makes a person look guilty.

Yes, they look much more innocent not being in jail, not being in the accused chair, not being drove in from a prison cell looking guilty for the media.

The fact they are free and can speak out reminds the news readers (which can be jurors) that they were acquitted and released aka....found innocent.

Tuesday will be the end of the Prosecutions requests....then Raffaeles finger nails?
 
So true, in addition to not looking "guilty" by sitting in the accused chair. That alone makes a person look guilty.

Yes, they look much more innocent not being in jail, not being in the accused chair, not being drove in from a prison cell looking guilty for the media.

The fact they are free and can speak out reminds the news readers (which can be jurors) that they were acquitted and released aka....found innocent.

Tuesday will be the end of the Prosecutions requests....then Raffaeles finger nails?

Geoffrey is just spouting off. He's a very typical guilter. Anything to disparage Amanda. Very little of it has any substance.
 
Think back to everything you've said about her presentation and personality. Now imagine if anything you've imagined about Knox was actually remotely close to the truth.

The last thing such a person would want to do is turn up to court. Her presentation would simply work against her.

The Internet is full of nitwits who think they understand Amanda's character and personality from what they have seen in the media. They are willing to assume that everyone who actually knows her is completely wrong about what she is like.

What she is like... she is a friendly, unassuming, very intelligent woman, a warm and kind-hearted person beloved by her friends and family. The whole time she was growing up, she was the delight of her family, a daughter who always made her parents proud. That is why they pulled out all the stops, cashed in their retirements, mortgaged everything they had to rescue her.

In 2007, Amanda stumbled across a murder scene through no fault of her own. She wound up in the middle of a criminal investigation run by bumbling incompetents. She had no idea they would be stupid enough to think of her as a suspect. The thought never crossed her mind. So she was totally off her guard. When they turned on her, she had no idea how to deal with it, so she collapsed under the pressure and stupidly signed the statements incriminating her and Lumumba. Many other innocent people have done the same thing.

Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito were, are and always will be completely innocent in the death of Meredith Kercher. Most of the people here who have examined the case fully understand that. A few will never understand. And from time to time, someone will come along who is either new to the case or pretending to be new, and will post a lot of ignorant garbage that is not worthy of a serious response.
 
The Internet is full of nitwits who think they understand Amanda's character and personality from what they have seen in the media. They are willing to assume that everyone who actually knows her is completely wrong about what she is like.

What she is like... she is a friendly, unassuming, very intelligent woman, a warm and kind-hearted person beloved by her friends and family. The whole time she was growing up, she was the delight of her family, a daughter who always made her parents proud. That is why they pulled out all the stops, cashed in their retirements, mortgaged everything they had to rescue her.

In 2007, Amanda stumbled across a murder scene through no fault of her own. She wound up in the middle of a criminal investigation run by bumbling incompetents. She had no idea they would be stupid enough to think of her as a suspect. The thought never crossed her mind. So she was totally off her guard. When they turned on her, she had no idea how to deal with it, so she collapsed under the pressure and stupidly signed the statements incriminating her and Lumumba. Many other innocent people have done the same thing.

Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito were, are and always will be completely innocent in the death of Meredith Kercher. Most of the people here who have examined the case fully understand that. A few will never understand. And from time to time, someone will come along who is either new to the case or pretending to be new, and will post a lot of ignorant garbage that is not worthy of a serious response.

I don't know Amanda. She sounds like a good young woman. I have never thought anything else. Still, the truth is, I don't know. But that is the point. None of these guilters have a clue what Amanda is like. Geoffrey certainly does not know. Machiavelli does not know, Peter Quennell, Peggy Ganong, BR Mull or Harry Rag, etc don't know either. Most of us are clueless about who Amanda Knox is.

Amanda and Raffaele, were supposed to be judged on the evidence and given the benefit of the doubt to start. But she hasn't been, certainly not by the nutsos. These people are not looking at the evidence of a crime and making a thoughtful fair conclusion. They judged her from second, third, fourth, fifth hand stories, many of which were never true. Amanda Knox, the she devil, witch incarnate is the story they bought. Hook line and sinker.

I'm amazed at how so many people have been so willing to cast a stone. I think it says more about humanity and that scares me. People judge far too quickly and without any real knowledge.
 
I don't know Amanda. She sounds like a good young woman. I have never thought anything else. Still, the truth is, I don't know. But that is the point. None of these guilters have a clue what Amanda is like. Geoffrey certainly does not know. Machiavelli does not know, Peter Quennell, Peggy Ganong, BR Mull or Harry Rag, etc don't know either. Most of us are clueless about who Amanda Knox is.

Amanda and Raffaele, were supposed to be judged on the evidence and given the benefit of the doubt to start. But she hasn't been, certainly not by the nutsos. These people are not looking at the evidence of a crime and making a thoughtful fair conclusion. They judged her from second, third, fourth, fifth hand stories, many of which were never true. Amanda Knox, the she devil, witch incarnate is the story they bought. Hook line and sinker.

I'm amazed at how so many people have been so willing to cast a stone. I think it says more about humanity and that scares me. People judge far too quickly and without any real knowledge.

It didn't take me long to figure out that she was completely innocent, but I had no idea what she was like as a person. So I paid attention to what her friends and family said. They would know, right? Better than Barbie Nadeau.

And sure enough, once I met her, and got to know her a little, I realized her friends and family had described her very accurately.
 
Her report says that 36b quantified positive for dna. It's a lie. I guess what you're saying is that she wouldn't have written that if she knew the prosecution already had the records to prove her lie.

She doesn't want to give up the other records because they will prove all of the egrams that she's hiding. They'd another lie.

I thinks she has a PhD in lying.

She has a PhD in lying, in how to contaminate and in mop wrapping.
 
Bruce posted this on IIP and I think it would be nice to get more info on what is actually written in the RIS report, apart from obvious findings regarding 36I.

Bruce Fischer
So as far as I can tell, the Carabinieri respects the work of Stefano Conti and Carla Vecchiotti, and now has confirmed once more that there is no trace of Meredith on the knife. All experts that have tested the knife, that are not working for the prosecution or the defense, have concluded that there is no trace of Meredith on the knife.

Florence has no reason not to respect the work of both the Carabinieri and C&V. If they interpret the evidence as they should, this case will finally be put to rest with acquittals for both Amanda and Raffaele.

This is optimistic.
 
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Bruce posted this on IIP and I think it would be nice to get more info on what is actually written in the RIS report, apart from obvious findings regarding 36I.

Bruce Fischer


This is optimistic.


I don't think this is correct at all. While it appears correct that the Carabinieri report does validate the techniques and protocols used by Vecchiotti, I think it's incorrect to state that the Carabinieri have "confirmed once more that there is no trace of Meredith on the knife".

I would repeat that the only task given to the Carabinieri was the testing of Vecchiotti's sample 36I. The Carabinieri apparently never had custody of the knife itself, nor of any of Stefanoni's samples, nor of any of Vecchiotti's samples other than her 36I. It therefore appears impossible for the Carabinieri to have "confirmed" anything regarding whose DNA was or wasn't on Stefanoni's swab 36B (the swab on which Meredith's DNA was allegedly found).

I would also add one other thing: the actual issue here is not strictly whose DNA was found on the various swab samples taken from the knife. Indeed, in my opinion it appears highly probable that Meredith's DNA - in extremely small quantities - was discovered by Stefanoni when she ran her sample 36B through the equipment. The real issue is one of the probative value pf that DNA finding, which in turn is directly linked to how and why the DNA came to be found from the testing.

There are various ways in which Meredith's DNA could have been identified on swab 36B. The only way that means anything is if that DNA was present on the knife at the time it was seized by the police from Sollecito's apartment, and was subsequently collected on swab 36B and tested. However, there are various other mechanisms by which Meredith's DNA could have ultimately been identified on swab 36B. For instance, it could have been deposited on the knife when the knife was improperly removed from an evidence bag at the police station and put in a non-sterile cardboard box; or Meredith's DNA could have been deposited on the knife during its analysis and testing in Stefanoni's laboratory (especially given that Stefanoni provably failed to follow the strict safeguards that are mandatory when working with such minute low-template quantities of DNA); or Meredith's DNA could have been in or on the equipment within Stefanoni's laboratory, and was transferred to swab 36B during the testing procedure (again, it's provable that Stefanoni failed to follow necessary low-template protocols, and there was plenty of Meredith's DNA already present in the laboratory).

What's meant to happen (in a competent lab) is that the forensic scientists are supposed to take every reasonable precaution to minimise the possibility of contamination or other malpractice. They are supposed to follow carefully-documented procedures, and to rigorously document their own work. It's only under those circumstances that any results - especially in the low-template range - should be considered reliable and probative. Stefanoni manifestly did not do any of this, and that's the chief reason why her work should be regarded as unreliable for use in a murder trial.

Simply speaking, any alleged finding of Meredith's DNA by Stefanoni on swab 36B should be considered null and void, owing to the widescale incompetence and malpractice employed by Stefanoni (and others involved in the chain of custody of the knife). That's what Conti and Vecchiotti concluded, and it's the correct conclusion. It now remains to be seen whether the new appeal court will accept this conclusion. If it does - as it should - then the knife no longer has any evidential relevance to the trial.
 
ok, so you think the bloody footprint on the bathmat is Rudy's? I thought that was a perfect match for the weird boyfriend, Romeo or whatever it is.

I don't think you can tell who the footprint belongs to. It could be Rudy's, it could be Raffaele's. While it could be used to exclude an individual. It's a piss poor piece of evidence to match to anyone.

IIRC the defence expert demonstrated that the prosecution expert had been in serious error.


Blood on a bathroom floor mat, in plain view.

I thought that there was supposed to have been a clean-up done?
Ya know, to cover up the crime.
Right...

Anyways, just for fun, here's that bloody bathmat print and some footprints photo's to compare it with:
;;



Why does that footprint look like Rudy Guede's?

A link:
http://web.archive.org/web/20100806.../2009/09/sollecitos-expert-questions-all.html
 
Well, let me think. I recall Nencini basically refused all defensive expert reports, and he only accepted the photos of Sollecito's nails (which are documentation) and accepted the testimonies that were to be completed as ordered by the supreme court, but refused everything else. However, I am not 100% sure, your indication makes me doubt. I don't know what Bongiorno said exactly, so if you have a link that might be useful.

Here you go: "Sono soddisfatta anche perché è stata acquisita una nostra consulenza di parte sul computer di Sollecito. Conferma infatti il suo alibi". It sounds like Nencini refused to order an independent report on the computer but accepted the report compiled by Sollecito's expert, assuming the quote is accurate.
 
The prosecutor is a 'Public Minister', a judge, in Italy.

I don't care what you want to call him. He's the guy whose trying to get the defendant thrown in jail. He doesn't also get to decide what evidence the defendant can have to try to stay out of jail. If he does, then you have a serious equality if arms violation.
 
Here you go: "Sono soddisfatta anche perché è stata acquisita una nostra consulenza di parte sul computer di Sollecito. Conferma infatti il suo alibi". It sounds like Nencini refused to order an independent report on the computer but accepted the report compiled by Sollecito's expert, assuming the quote is accurate.

I suspect that Machiavelli already knew this. Otherwise, why would he have given this report to two of his own Italian "experts" (Doctors, probably), and then suggest that they have poo pooed the report.
 
Thank you, LondonJohn.

I've actually went through the RIS report briefly and seen the photos of the swabs in the refrigerator. I knew that they only tested 36I and had no contact with the knife at all, but from various comments it looked like RIS made some negative observations towards Stefanoni's work and postive about C&V's, which you confrimed in your last post(about C&V), for what I'm thankful.
 
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So do you think that the Central Park Jogger Five and the Birmingham Six were correctly convicted as well? After all, they all also "confessed" to murder....

(Hint: all of the above were subsequently acquitted and exonerated).

Sorry to nitpick, LJ - it was the Guildford Four who were convicted on dodgy confessions. The Birmingham Six were "nailed" by dodgy forensics. It doesn't alter the point you're making, of course.
 
i mean the unsolicted one. I assume it was the latest one that night.

guilty or innocent I think this woman has a few screws loose.

Most people suffer a complete failure of imagination when they consider what Amanda and Raff went through on Nov 6th.

Amanda was already tired and stressed out, but before she even realised what was happening, she was being absolutely terrorised by a literal gang of shouting cops, with no friend or advocate of any kind to hand.

She was literally screaming for help at one point.

And you know what - I think some of those ****** thugs in uniform are more than just bullies, they are sadists as well, and they enjoyed it.

THAT'S why the writing in her 'memoriale' is the way it is - she was almost at the point of losing her mind completely.

But I suspect you might lack both the imagination and the capacity for empathy needed to ggrasp this
 
Here you go: "Sono soddisfatta anche perché è stata acquisita una nostra consulenza di parte sul computer di Sollecito. Conferma infatti il suo alibi". It sounds like Nencini refused to order an independent report on the computer but accepted the report compiled by Sollecito's expert, assuming the quote is accurate.

This from La Nazione also seems to confirm the same:

"Sono soddisfatta anche perché è stata acquisita una nostra consulenza di parte sul computer di Sollecito. Conferma infatti il suo alibi".

http://www.lanazione.it/cronaca/2013/10/04/960299-processo-meredith.shtml
 
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