Continuation Part Six: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Diocletus]

Stefanoni was never caught lying, Diocletus, and you know that.

Her report says that 36b quantified positive for dna. It's a lie. I guess what you're saying is that she wouldn't have written that if she knew the prosecution already had the records to prove her lie.

She doesn't want to give up the other records because they will prove all of the egrams that she's hiding. They'd another lie.

I thinks she has a PhD in lying.

 

[Machiavelli]

I would like to see proof that they ever made this statement.

I have shown you a written request for the raw data that C&V submitted to Stefanoni through Hellmann. I have also shown you Stefanoni's response, in which she declines the request. That was April 2011.

Vecchiotti testified on June 30, 2011 that she did not have certain negative controls, and court was recessed for an unsuccessful file search to find them. Leila posted a translation of the relevant transcript on IIP.

Then, when the hearings resumed in September, Comodi submitted some photocopies of what she said were the negative controls for 36B, but the numbers did not appear to be from the same test series. Leila translated that transcript and posted it on IIP as well.

These controls would be included in the raw data, so the transcripts suggest C&V did not have the raw data as of September 2011.

And now the new court has declined a defense request for the raw data. That means the defense still does not have it.

Your claim therefore does not line up with the facts as known to those of us who follow the case closely. You need to prove it if you expect anyone outside of your cult to take it seriously.

No, moment: I did bring a newspaper link reporting this statement, something which Vecchiotti said on the hearing of May 21. 2011. I linked this already on this forum.
Maybe I quoted two newspaper links, months ago.

Here there is another one:

http://www.leggo.it/index.php?p=articolo&id=122817

Davanti ai giudici uno degli esperti ha sottolineato la «massima ollaborazione» fornita dalla polizia scientifica che ha eseguito gli accertamenti tecnici nel corso delle indagini.

This one instead is La Nazione Umbria:

http://www.lanazione.it/umbria/cronaca/2011/05/21/509949-processo_meredith_risultati_della_nuova_perizia_entro_giugno.shtml

(...) Intanto in Aula, stamani, gli esperti hanno spiegato di avere ottenuto tutti i dati scientifici richiesti.

"... the experts explained they obtained all the scientific data they had requested".

Davanti ai giudici uno degli esperti ha sottolineato la "massima collaborazione" fornita dalla polizia scientifica che ha eseguito gli accertamenti tecnici nel corso delle indagini.

"One of the experts pointed out the scientific police offered 'complete cooperation' "

Do you want a transcript? I don't have the one of May 21. But it would be easier to manifacture a transcript rather than a link to the news.

 

[Diocletus]

It seems to me the Carabinieri sustain Novelli's bio-statystical methodology.

The carabinieri calculated the odds that Knox was a contributor to the contaminated mess that is 36i. This woukd blow novelli's mind because he doesn't believe in contamination.

 

[Bill Williams]

They were guilty. There was evidence of that, including one of the defendant's friends saying he admitted to holding down the woman's legs while she was raped. Another one had grass / debris/ semen in his underwear.

Another guy who confessed later was there but in the original two trials it was always understood some of the perps got away.

THey only got sprung because they are minorities.

Ok.... you started this saying that 75% of innocenters were racist. We've now come full circle I guess.

 

[Machiavelli]

Her report says that 36b quantified positive for dna. It's a lie. I guess what you're saying is that she wouldn't have written that if she knew the prosecution already had the records to prove her lie.

A lie to whom, since Prof. Potenza and the defence experts were supposed to be there when she tested the knife with the QBit fluorimeter?
How can you hide a fluorimeter?

She doesn't want to give up the other records because they will prove all of the egrams that she's hiding. They'd another lie.

And this one is from you.

 

[Machiavelli]

The carabinieri calculated the odds that Knox was a contributor to the contaminated mess that is 36i. This woukd blow novelli's mind because he doesn't believe in contamination.

Is there a specific reason why you expect a kitchen knife (employed in several activities, among them a murder) picked from a drawer to be clean, "uncontaminated"?

 

[Diocletus]

A lie to whom, since Prof. Potenza and the defence experts were supposed to be there when she tested the knife with the QBit fluorimeter?
How can you hide a fluorimeter?

That's a good question. On the other hand, we don't have the real Qubit records and stefanoni is hiding the records of RT-qPCR run nos 545 to 548. So, it's possible that the qubit was not used in front of Potenza. We can't know that it was without the real records.

 

[Bill Williams]

No two cases are alike.

All 5 of them implicated each other. One of them wrote "it was fun". They went into great detail about the rape.

Whatever.

 

[RandyN]

If you were innocent, would you put yourself at the murder scene?

That is the last thing you would do. So unless this girl was high as a kite that night at the police station, she was there.

If this case was in Texas, they would have executed her 5.75 years ago.
Italians always second guess themselves. They lack confidence.

I bet fellow Texan Michael Morton would disagree with you. And lets see what Texas does with Ex-judge and Ex prosecutor Ken Anderson. Anderson is the American counter part to the nutty prosecution of G Mignini.

After 3 years you should have better arguments about the facts of this case. So far you have presented none at all. How about a time line showing guilt of the two wrongly accused. Please try to have it fit the facts of the case. You are more than welcome to convince me that AK and RS are guilty. What facts do you present that prove guilt? Accusing an innocent man? Yes that is a strong piece of evidence that Italian police wrote up this "evidence" (in Italian btw) and forced Knox to sign something she could not understand. Her hand written statement in English proves she is confused and unsure about what police have told her...but perhaps English is not your first language either, which may explain your confusion.

 

[Diocletus]

Is there a specific reason why you expect a kitchen knife (employed in several activities, among them a murder) picked from a drawer to be clean, "uncontaminated"?

Sure, it would be nice and clean if had been scrubbed with bleach.

On the other hand, if it had been used to stab someone in the neck, then it would have blood on it . . . unless it had been scrubbed with bleach.

You decide.

 

[acbytesla]

Italian justice is long on procedure, it seems. This seems like the easiest conviction of all time and they are still messing with 6 years later.

Here are my untested observations that lead me to convict:


Most of the cases on Law and Order are more complicated than this one, it seems. WHat am I missing?

Knox isn't very bright, as her written declaration exposes.

I agree that written statement is poorly written. I wonder why? Considering that Amanda received high grades at one of the most prestigious prep schools in the country Seattle Prep and was and is an English major at the University of Washington. Could it be that Amanda DIDN'T write it? That she just signed it? Read it again. Even a high school dropout probably would have worded it better. Isn't it more likely that a person who's main language is not English wrote it?

Knox did drugs. Many homicides are drug related.

Yea, if we are talking hallucinogens and hard core drugs, even alcohol. But Knox smoked only a little marijuana. There is little evidence that marijuana causes people to commit murder. In fact, marijuana is a depressant. The only thing in danger after smoking a doobie are the Doritos.

Knox had opportunity. Nobody else was around on this weekend plus it was her house.

Well Knox actually wasn't around. She was at her boyfriend's house about ten blocks away.

Knox had motive. Did not get along with Meredith, possibly jealous.

In fact nothing could be further from the truth, even the judge in the first trial that convicted Amanda and Raffaele said that neither had any motive. That the motive belonged to Rudy Guede. Also Amanda and Meredith got along fine. The other two roommates both testified that they got along fine. The week before the murder, both had gone to a chocolate festival and music concert together. Meredith penned a fake tatoo on Amanda.

The boyfriend seems to be weird and also a druggie.

Well, weird is in the eye of the beholder. The boyfriend Raffaele had ZERO history of violence and was studying computer engineering.

Knox accused a black man of murder who turns out to be innocent.

So? Is this evidence of anything other than police coercion?

Knox and the boyfriend have no alibi other than each other. What is probality of having no alibi the same night your roommate is murdered in your house?

Pretty damn good, I'd say. Two kids, a cozy night together, watching movies and having sex. Sounds like what most horny 20 years-old kids might be doing given the opportunity.

Knox was acting weird after the murder.

What is weird?

Sadly Geoffrey, you walk into the forum and write a bunch of unsubstantiated fiction and declare to the world, why is this such a hard case? If you actually were familiar with the facts you would be asking why there was ever a trial in the first place.

 

[Bill Williams]

Is there a specific reason why you expect a kitchen knife (employed in several activities, among them a murder) picked from a drawer to be clean, "uncontaminated"?

This is new. It was alleged by the prosecution to have been cleaned - except for two minuscule samples, one in a groove on the blade no one but Stefanoni could see!

Do you just invent your responses as you go?

 

[Machiavelli]

Ahhh yea...NO! C and V had a due date in court to submit their report. On that due date they had to enter the court and explain why they could not present the report on the due date and that they needed an extension.

The reason was that Stefanoni failed/refused to turn over the requested files to them. (...)

No. The reason for the last 40 days delay is that they decided to ask further documentation to the Perugia Flying Squad (in Perugia). They were looking for the police reports about the collecting of the knife. C&V requested such time extension on may 21.
On the very same court hearing of May 21. they also declared they had already receved all data they had requested from the Scientific Police (in Rome), and they praised the Scientific police (aka Stefanoni) for their complete cooperation.

 

[Bill Williams]

I think you might have a bias, possibly in your past life experiences, toward the idea of innocent people being wrongfully convicted.

Whatever.

 

[Machiavelli]

This is new. It was alleged by the prosecution to have been cleaned - except for two minuscule samples, one in a groove on the blade no one but Stefanoni could see!

Do you just invent your responses as you go?

But do you understand what you are saying? They obviously cleaned it, but would a cleaning be sufficient to make it turn back actually completely clean, "uncontaminated"?

 

[Machiavelli]

I've already gone thru the facts that I need for conviction with 100 percent confidence.

I think her written statement alone is enough to convict her.

(...)

That is certainly one good piece of evidence; but there are several others.

 

[acbytesla]

I can't see middle aged Italian males writing that letter.

You're right that a middle aged Italian man did not write it. The woman translator wrote it. Time to start learning the actual facts of the case Geoffrey.

 

[Skind]

No two cases are alike. The black guy was innocent in Knox's case.

All 5 of them implicated each other. One of them wrote "it was fun". They went into great detail about the rape.

Pretty much what you'd expect from a internalised false confession then.

Police know what confessions look like. They're not going to stop until you give them a confession they can use.

It's not unknown for police in false confession cases to have been caught feeding crime scene information to the suspect.

You can feed false information about a scene to a suspect, but not true information. Once you do that, you're basically setting the suspect up.

 

[xinonix]

There was a trial in the 1st place because Mignini brought in a psychic and was told that this was a satanic rite. If the psychic had a vision that was accurate Amanda or Raffale would not have been arrested. Mignini would know Rudy did it.

 

[Machiavelli]

Do you understand that if the prosecution has possibly exculpatory information most countries require them to share that with the defense? Does Italy, by law, allow them to hold this information back? Yes or no?

If the prosecution has possible exculpatory information, but we are talking about raw data Stefanoni's machine used to produce charts, not about possible exculpatory information. Certainly not deemed of any exculpatory value by Stefanoni or the prosecution.