Continuation Part Six: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Grinder]

I fail to see the relevance of this. What is relevant to guilt or innocence, is whether evidence exists or not.

Mach I can understand many of your positions but not in this area.

The biggest PGP should acknowledge that the PLE made a mess of this case. The evidence may have existed but was destroyed by the police.

What happened to all the video from public and private cameras from around the area where the kids and Rudy would have been that night?

 

[Dan O.]

The hard disks - technically speaking - were not broken; were not overwritten, they were not activated at all; the content of two of them was recovered entirely.
This is what you can read in the expert reports - including the defence expert report.

The electric shock damaged the bios and control boards of the hard drives, not the disks themselves.

Knox's toshiba hard drive was not destroyed either: the experts gave up attempt to recover data because, due to the Toshiba (multiple disc) technology, a disassembling of the disk unit would have caused the danger of making the data unrecoverable. Only a producer-licensed firma could attempt to do so.
The judge declined the defence proposal to submit the hard drive to another firma.

The other two hard drives were successfully recovered following an order by the investigating judge.

Is that why they disassembled it? It wasn't enough to just fry the logic card, they had to insure that the data on that drive could never be recovered.


foto n.4 DiscoToshiba 100MB integrità superficie (from computer consultants report)

 

[Diocletus]

If you have the Quantificazione document there were five pages of Qubit records included at the end which has the image of the page you ask.

I looked at two different places (IIA and Kermit Wiki), and for both of them, I see an "index"-type page that states that there are 4 pages of QF records attached, for dates 11/6, 11/13, and 11/14. But, there are only 3 pages of records actually attached, and none of them match what was attached above. Could you point me to where you are looking?

 

[christianahannah]

Mach I can understand many of your positions but not in this area.

The biggest PGP should acknowledge that the PLE made a mess of this case. The evidence may have existed but was destroyed by the police.

What happened to all the video from public and private cameras from around the area where the kids and Rudy would have been that night?

Has there been discussion concerning retention policy of the tapes of public and private cameras? When was the car park video first accessed by police? Is it known the retention record of that particular camera?

Also, it appears Patrick's computer was successfully cloned which was among the five computers seized.

 

[Dan O.]

His ISP would have provided online records. Does anyone believe they were part of the conspiracy?

If it was his that wasn't recovered then it would be his writing of emails in the night that weren't sent that could have been recovered.

His ISP did provide records. That showed an Internet connection was made in the middle of the night when the experts testified that there was none.

Also, the ISP records requires by Italy's "pis-on-u" law only covered a minimum subset of internet protocols such as port 80 (HTTP) web connections. They miss completely any HTTPS secure web connections that would be used for web mail.

 

[christianahannah]

I looked at two different places (IIA and Kermit Wiki), and for both of them, I see an "index"-type page that states that there are 4 pages of QF records attached, for dates 11/6, 11/13, and 11/14. But, there are only 3 pages of records actually attached, and none of them match what was attached above. Could you point me to where you are looking?

I have the records from some time ago. I am not sure how to separate the last five pages from the rest of the document (it is in pdf form) to create an attachment of those five pages.

Have you looked at The Murder of Meredith Kercher wiki?

 

[Diocletus]

I have the records from some time ago. I am not sure how to separate the last five pages from the rest of the document (it is in pdf form) to create an attachment of those five pages.

Have you looked at The Murder of Meredith Kercher wiki?

That one is the same as I described: 3 pages of records, none of which exactly matches the page in question.

If you could PM to me whatever you have, that would be great.

 

[Dan O.]

So the Massei Report was wrong in that respect then (my highlighting)?

As far as the accused Raffaele Sollecito goes, the Postal Police technical examination was carried out only on his MacBook PRO Apple laptop. Insofar as his other PC, an ASUS L300D, as well as Amanda Knox’s Toshiba serial number 7541811OK and Meredith Kercher’s G4 iBook sustained damage, it was impossible to retrieve data from their respective hard drives.

(Massei Report, English translation, p299)

???

This would be consistent for the time when the postals did the examination. The damaged drives would not be recovered until later.

 

[Bill Williams]

Grinder - you challenged my use of the term "full bore" in describing the current PGP PR campaign. Ok I had only used it in relation to Mignini’s current sensitivity to *****ic r*te theories.

Perhaps "full bore" needs to be put into perspective. Andrea Vogt is currently slandering Hampikian over a two-year old claim coincidently just days ahead of the Florence court discussing DNA again, and anonymous guilters are setting up false FoxNews twitter feeds ahead of today's meeting with Congress.

The real challenge to the use of "full bore" is that this current PGP PR effort is nothing when compared with the original tabloid frenzy 6 years ago. But far far fewer guilters seem to be doubling and tripling their efforts with suspect results - esp. When their game is discovered.

I am searching for a new term. Please advise.

 

[acbytesla]

Katy, the knife believed to be the murder weapon was from Raffaele's kitchen. Raffaele was a knife collector, so the prosecution assumed that Raffy grabbed a knife from his kitchen drawer just before he left. after Rudy was done stabbing her with his pocket knife, Raffi took another stab with the kitchen knife. He was taking advantage of this opportunity to add a knife that had been used in a murder to his collection. He thought he removed all the DNA from the knife when he cleaned it, but he was wrong.

Yea, sure. And I have swampland for sale.

Two pocket knives hardly constitute being a collector. I personally have a a half a dozen similar knives and I AM NOT A COLLECTOR.

 

[Bill Williams]

Grinder - you challenged my use of the term "full bore" in describing the current PGP PR campaign. Ok I had only used it in relation to Mignini’s current sensitivity to *****ic r*te theories.

Perhaps "full bore" needs to be put into perspective. Andrea Vogt is currently slandering Hampikian over a two-year old claim coincidently just days ahead of the Florence court discussing DNA again, and anonymous guilters are setting up false FoxNews twitter feeds ahead of today's meeting with Congress.

The real challenge to the use of "full bore" is that this current PGP PR effort is nothing when compared with the original tabloid frenzy 6 years ago. But far far fewer guilters seem to be doubling and tripling their efforts with suspect results - esp. When their game is discovered.

I am searching for a new term. Please advise.

 

[Machiavelli]

Mach I can understand many of your positions but not in this area.

The biggest PGP should acknowledge that the PLE made a mess of this case. The evidence may have existed but was destroyed by the police.

The fact is I completely disagree on this. I don't think the "PLE" (as you call it) made a mess. There are several errors by various people, but nothing determinant.

What happened to all the video from public and private cameras from around the area where the kids and Rudy would have been that night?

There was only one public camera that could have been useful, belonging to the city administration, but was inactive.

I don't know about the military camera, but that only shoots on their entrance gate; I think it doesn't even record continuously.

The parking camera was active, but it did not record 24/h, it would set on recording only on the passing of cars along the road (it did not activate on passers by).

Bear in mind also that in Italy there are laws which prevent the owners of tv cameras to retain video recordings of public places beyond a short time (usually 24 hours). In 2007 the law was even more ambiguous and so possibly more strict thant today.

 

[LondonJohn]

This would be consistent for the time when the postals did the examination. The damaged drives would not be recovered until later.

Ah yes, I realise that. I was just pointing out that the position of the "crack" Postal Police, as articulated in the Massei Report, was that it was "impossible to retrieve data" from all these hard drives.

Mind you, the Postal morons only had, what..... some 16 months between the seizure of the computers and the relevant point in the Massei trial, in which to try to rectify their incompetence. Clearly not enough time for these idiots

 

[Machiavelli]

(...)
And I recall that some of the data in the computers was in fact overwritten because the police were surfing the internet and watching movies on the computers.

That the police were surfing the internet in Sollecito's apartment it's a defence theory (or claim), not a proven fact.
That was allegedly the other hard drive, and wouldn't be enough to delete traces of Sollecito's previous activity, anyway (information which in fact was recovered).

 

[acbytesla]

That the police were surfing the internet in Sollecito's apartment it's a defence theory (or claim), not a proven fact.
That was allegedly the other hard drive, and wouldn't be enough to delete traces of Sollecito's previous activity, anyway (information which in fact was recovered).

Proven to who? Morons like Massei? Or the rest of the Italian Legal System? Or to to experts? What I've noticed is Italy is Legal LA LA LAND. Morons.

 

[Machiavelli]

His ISP did provide records. That showed an Internet connection was made in the middle of the night when the experts testified that there was none.

Also, the ISP records requires by Italy's "pis-on-u" law only covered a minimum subset of internet protocols such as port 80 (HTTP) web connections. They miss completely any HTTPS secure web connections that would be used for web mail.

But beyond connection, the mail service provider would retain the sending information.

The internet connection showed activity which could not be tracked to Sollecito's computer, and moreover it was consistent with the automatic functioning of a runging p2p app.

 

[Diocletus]

That the police were surfing the internet in Sollecito's apartment it's a defence theory (or claim), not a proven fact.
That was allegedly the other hard drive, and wouldn't be enough to delete traces of Sollecito's previous activity, anyway (information which in fact was recovered).

Is there an internet access record corresponding to a time when Sollecito was at the police station, or not?

 

[LondonJohn]

That the police were surfing the internet in Sollecito's apartment it's a defence theory (or claim), not a proven fact.
That was allegedly the other hard drive, and wouldn't be enough to delete traces of Sollecito's previous activity, anyway (information which in fact was recovered).

Who was viewing the web pages (some of which were actually about the crime) that were provably in the cache of Sollecito's computer, and which were time-stamped AFTER Sollecito and Knox had both been arrested?

Perhaps somebody broke into Sollecito's flat, used his laptop to surf the net, then left, all without leaving a trace? Perhaps an intelligent ant in Sollecito's flat learnt how to power up Sollecito's laptop and surf the net? Who knows? It's a genuine mystery!

 

[Machiavelli]

Proven to who? (...)

To anyone. As for any standard of common sense.

 

[Machiavelli]

Who was viewing the web pages (some of which were actually about the crime) that were provably in the cache of Sollecito's computer, and which were time-stamped AFTER Sollecito and Knox had both been arrested?

Perhaps somebody broke into Sollecito's flat, used his laptop to surf the net, then left, all without leaving a trace? Perhaps an intelligent ant in Sollecito's flat learnt how to power up Sollecito's laptop and surf the net? Who knows? It's a genuine mystery!

Perhaps one of Sollecito's sisters. Perhaps one of his two cleaning ladies. Perhaps his father. Perhaps his father's "hence persons" (aunt, cousins, etc.) Perhaps his university friend...