Continuation Part Six: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Diocletus]

Of the three damaged hard drives (Sollecito's, Knox's, Meredith's), two were recovered. Don't forget that.

I think that the point of the hard drive issue is that the police and their experts didn't know what they were doing. They overwrote information. They broke three hard drives. Even if two were "recovered," the technicians are still incompetent. On top of that, they failed to collect all of the relevant information off of the drives.

 

[Strozzi]

I fail to see the relevance. The fact that they were damaged in the first place is embarrassing on its own.

Machiavelli, police "experts" damaged or destroyed four hard-drives. Data on two were subsequently (partially?) recovered. Were they recovered by the police or prosecution on the PLE's own initiative? Or were they only recovered after the defense demanded it?

Who had supervisory authority over the police experts who damaged or destroyed the drives?

How did Mignini react when he learned what had happened? Did he say "What do you mean, damaged? This is intolerable! Bring in experts and recover the drives' data if at all possible!"

 

[LondonJohn]

Of the three damaged hard drives (Sollecito's, Knox's, Meredith's), two were recovered. Don't forget that.

So the Massei Report was wrong in that respect then (my highlighting)?

As far as the accused Raffaele Sollecito goes, the Postal Police technical examination was carried out only on his MacBook PRO Apple laptop. Insofar as his other PC, an ASUS L300D, as well as Amanda Knox’s Toshiba serial number 7541811OK and Meredith Kercher’s G4 iBook sustained damage, it was impossible to retrieve data from their respective hard drives.

(Massei Report, English translation, p299)

???

 

[LondonJohn]

Machiavelli, police "experts" damaged or destroyed four hard-drives. Data on two were subsequently (partially?) recovered. Were they recovered by the police or prosecution on the PLE's own initiative? Or were they only recovered after the defense demanded it?

Who had supervisory authority over the police experts who damaged or destroyed the drives?

How did Mignini react when he learned what had happened? Did he say "What do you mean, damaged? This is intolerable! Bring in experts and recover the drives' data if at all possible!"

The part that would be hilarious - if it wasn't so consequentially serious - is that the examination (i.e. destruction) of these hard drives was carried out by the specific unit of the Italian State Police that is supposed to specialise in the analysis of computer data!

It would be bad enough if some unqualified plod street cop had inadvertently wrecked the hard drives by fiddling around with them. But the fact that they were wrecked by the supposed "experts" of the State Police is, frankly, beyond ridicule.

 

[Strozzi]

All the more so when you think that when Rudy broke into the nursery school, he took a knife from the kitchen for "protection". Could he have done the same here? Admittedly it's not all that likely he replaced the knife in the drawer afterwards, rather than dispose of it - no one would be that stupid - but he might well have picked up a couple of other knives before settling on the one he finally used.

The problem was, as codyjuneau says, that finding Meredith's, Amanda's, or Raffaele's DNA on a knife from the cottage wouldn't be at all incriminating. So there was no point in testing them.

Competent investigators would have collected ALL knives from the kitchen in Kerscher's flat. The kitchen 20 feet from where the body lay. Then they would have tested the knives to see if Meredith's blood was on the blade of any of the knives. Machiavelli, why didn't they do that?

 

[LondonJohn]

Competent investigators would have collected ALL knives from the kitchen in Kerscher's flat. The kitchen 20 feet from where the body lay. Then they would have tested the knives to see if Meredith's blood was on the blade of any of the knives. Machiavelli, why didn't they do that?

D'oh! They didn't do that because they simply KNEW (osmotically, of course ) that none of these knives was used.

I can't believe that you underestimate the parapsychological predictive powers of the Italian State Police in this way! Heretic!

 

[Grinder]

Heya acbytesla:
Check out this photograph:
[qimg]http://imageshack.us/a/img198/6634/391.JPG[/qimg]

You would think that with all these kitchen knives found in Meredith's own kitchen,
that the investigators would have tried to see if 1 was better suited to match that bloody outline on Meredith's bed and then test the darn thing to see if it was the murder weapon!

Also hard to believe that Raf or Patrick didn't have a knife that could have fit the bloody outline. But that cuts two ways, if they were framing the kids from before grabbing the knife which many here believe, why didn't they grab a knife that was closer to a fit from Raf's?

 

[Chris_Halkides]

we don't need no stinking Toshiba experts

IIUC Amanda's defense offered to pay for her drive to be sent to Toshiba, but they were refused. Mind-boggling.

 

[Bill Williams]

Competent investigators would have collected ALL knives from the kitchen in Kerscher's flat. The kitchen 20 feet from where the body lay. Then they would have tested the knives to see if Meredith's blood was on the blade of any of the knives. Machiavelli, why didn't they do that?

The knife intitially was never meant to make it to trial anyways. It was meant to show Raffaele what they were prepared to do to get a conviction... and his part of it was to turn on Knox, as Lumumba did.

No guilter has been able to come up with a logical narrative as to why, from a guilt perspective, Raffaele simply would not lie about Knox's non-involvement in this. Raffaele is clear about his reasons for bring thus, "Honor Bound" in his book - he was prepared to do 25 years rather than lie, and he refused a deal from the prosecution for leniency.

But as the days after the plucking of that knife at random turned into weeks and then turned into months, and then turned into an inevitable trial with Raffaele sitting there as a co-accused.... they could ignore Raffaele, but they couldn't ignore that....

..... the kitchen knife now had to be asked to do some heavy lifting that forensics in the courtroom simply would not allow. All the lunacy about that knife - the DNA testing, the alleged transportation of it from Raffaele's, the linking of the knife to motive (as Massei found out)....

By the time trial came around, they wished they plucked another knife at random, other than that one. It was initially designed to do one thing.... then had to do another.

If nothing else, it's the smoking gun of PLE corruption.

 

[Bill Williams]

I think he has pretty much stated that he feels Mignini rode the tide of frenzy re satan to his advantage, but now is trying to distance himself from it because it is a liability of some sort now. I don't think that is so hard to see.


PS: Bill, any of the above that quotes or interprets you wrong you can set me straight. I am just saying how I filter the conversation...​

That's about it. I've probably made more of it than I should, but that's about it in a nutshell.

 

[Diocletus]

Hi acbytesla,
That kitchen knife photo that I posted above earlier tonight,
(err make that last night RW!)
with the lil spots on it,
well it was tested for DNA, as you mighta heard.

But when it came up empty, so to say,
err, make that "Too Low"
it was tested again, and again, and again:
[qimg]http://imageshack.us/a/img13/1158/vcdb.jpg[/qimg]

Why?
Were any other items also tested again,
+ again, + again, + again, + again, + again, + again, + again, + again, + again, and again?

Or just this 1 sample?

If not,
why not?

Just wonderin' over here in Santa Monica, California...
RW


Link here:
http://web.archive.org/web/20100806235709/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2009/09/too-low.html

So, as I mentioned, we can place this as a missing page of the Quantificazione document as pertaining to the Qubit Flourometer runs.

What is interesting is that we can use this document to determine that Sample 33a (clasp knife), which produced Egram no. 757 showing a "mixed" profile at 150 RFU (in other words, a mess), results from a "Too low" sample.

Curiously, this egram appears to show, as a secondary contributor/possible contaminant, small peaks that could be matched to Kercher in several cases.

Could this suggest a widespread Kercher contamination problem in the relevant egram plate, i.e., 365bis???

 

[Machiavelli]

The hard disks - technically speaking - were not broken; were not overwritten, they were not activated at all; the content of two of them was recovered entirely.
This is what you can read in the expert reports - including the defence expert report.

The electric shock damaged the bios and control boards of the hard drives, not the disks themselves.

Knox's toshiba hard drive was not destroyed either: the experts gave up attempt to recover data because, due to the Toshiba (multiple disc) technology, a disassembling of the disk unit would have caused the danger of making the data unrecoverable. Only a producer-licensed firma could attempt to do so.
The judge declined the defence proposal to submit the hard drive to another firma.

The other two hard drives were successfully recovered following an order by the investigating judge.

 

[Machiavelli]

"Of the three damaged hard drives (Sollecito's, Knox's, Meredith's), two were recovered. Don't forget that. "
OK, so the evidence that Raffi was online at the time of the murder was on the drive that was not recovered.

All drives of Sollecito were recovered.

 

[Grinder]

"Of the three damaged hard drives (Sollecito's, Knox's, Meredith's), two were recovered. Don't forget that. "
OK, so the evidence that Raffi was online at the time of the murder was on the drive that was not recovered.

His ISP would have provided online records. Does anyone believe they were part of the conspiracy?

If it was his that wasn't recovered then it would be his writing of emails in the night that weren't sent that could have been recovered.

 

[Machiavelli]

I fail to see the relevance. The fact that they were damaged in the first place is embarrassing on its own.

I fail to see the relevance of this. What is relevant to guilt or innocence, is whether evidence exists or not.

 

[Matthew Best]

I fail to see the relevance of this. What is relevant to guilt or innocence, is whether evidence exists or not.

It speaks to the competence of the Italian police and their so-called "experts".

 

[Diocletus]

The hard disks - technically speaking - were not broken; were not overwritten, they were not activated at all; the content of two of them was recovered entirely.
This is what you can read in the expert reports - including the defence expert report.

The electric shock damaged the bios and control boards of the hard drives, not the disks themselves.

Knox's toshiba hard drive was not destroyed either: the experts gave up attempt to recover data because, due to the Toshiba (multiple disc) technology, a disassembling of the disk unit would have caused the danger of making the data unrecoverable. Only a producer-licensed firma could attempt to do so.
The judge declined the defence proposal to submit the hard drive to another firma.

The other two hard drives were successfully recovered following an order by the investigating judge.

So the technicians are incompetent and the judge is a weasel?

And I recall that some of the data in the computers was in fact overwritten because the police were surfing the internet and watching movies on the computers.

 

[Diocletus]

That's about it. I've probably made more of it than I should, but that's about it in a nutshell.

My conclusion is that Mignini may never have uttered the word "Satan" in court, but that he used the theme of a "Halloween" "initiation" "rite" because he wanted to suggest Satanism, and in fact, this worked because the press interpreted and reported it as such.

Mignini was able to prejudice the defendants with the Satanism theme without ever discrediting himself by actually saying "Satan." Very sneaky. Now he's mad because people think he actually said "Satanism," even though all he did was imply it.

 

[christianahannah]

That picture is interesting. It is a page of Qubit records that is not included in the Quantificazione document.

Does anyone have an image of the whole document? I'm think that these measurements do not relate to Exh. 36. Rather, these appear to me to be the Qubit records for exhibits 32-34. I would like to know the date of these tests.

If you have the Quantificazione document there were five pages of Qubit records included at the end which has the image of the page you ask.

 

[Grinder]

The knife intitially was never meant to make it to trial anyways. It was meant to show Raffaele what they were prepared to do to get a conviction... and his part of it was to turn on Knox, as Lumumba did.

Really. Do we have a source other than you for this theory? If that was the idea why didn't they just take his tactical knifes? There is no logic for this strategy that would involve more people so early in the conspiracy. They would ask people for a fake knife and then count on them to keep quiet when they salted it with Meredith's DNA.

There is no proper word "anyways".

No guilter has been able to come up with a logical narrative as to why, from a guilt perspective, Raffaele simply would not lie about Knox's non-involvement in this. Raffaele is clear about his reasons for bring thus, "Honor Bound" in his book - he was prepared to do 25 years rather than lie, and he refused a deal from the prosecution for leniency.

Why would a PGP need a narrative? Had he turned on Amanda and been involved as the PG think then she would have pointed the finger right back at him.

But as the days after the plucking of that knife at random turned into weeks and then turned into months, and then turned into an inevitable trial with Raffaele sitting there as a co-accused.... they could ignore Raffaele, but they couldn't ignore that....

..... the kitchen knife now had to be asked to do some heavy lifting that forensics in the courtroom simply would not allow. All the lunacy about that knife - the DNA testing, the alleged transportation of it from Raffaele's, the linking of the knife to motive (as Massei found out)....

By the time trial came around, they wished they plucked another knife at random, other than that one. It was initially designed to do one thing.... then had to do another.

If nothing else, it's the smoking gun of PLE corruption.

Why didn't they just use his knives that he carried and "find" the DNA on those knives? Why didn't they put a trace of Meredith's blood on the knife of choice? Why would they just want to get Amanda?

There is nothing in the record to substantiate your theory of taking a kitchen knife to scare him. Nothing.

Who has backed Raf's story of being offered a deal?