"Affordable" Care Act - Yeah, Right.

Ziggurat said:
So in other words, you don't care that Obama lied because people you don't like are complaining about it. That's one approach, I suppose.
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I think it's more of an issue with the evidence or source provided....Not that they don't like the, but they aren't found to be reliable. Since everything that Obama has done, whether it's related to Obamacare or doing his laundry, the Republicans have declared it some form of impeachable offense, no one really cares anymore.
 
At this point the "lie" seems to smell a lot like the WMD claim in Iraq. A president who wanted to believe something enough to prevent a honest assessment of the facts.
 
Upchurch said:
It might just be that right wing echo chambers have been crying wolf on the sins of Obama for so long, its hard to take the -gate du jour with any credibility. Especially considering your cited blog is, in turn, citing nationalreview.com.

eta: :dqueen
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If you want another source, NBC is not a right-wing echo chamber.
 
DavidJames said:
At this point the "lie" seems to smell a lot like the WMD claim in Iraq. A president who wanted to believe something enough to prevent a honest assessment of the facts.
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This wasn't just a case of getting it wrong, though, his administration took active steps to make it not true.
 
Upchurch said:
No. I don't trust unreliable sources of information.
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The information is available from many sources. Newton Bits gave another above. It's not a secret that Obama lied about people's ability to keep their existing policies. The complaint is coming in from all quarters, from both the left and the right. At this point, if you don't know that you're either not paying attention or you're in denial.

But I am curious: did you believe the lie when he told it?
 
eeyore1954 said:
Mother Jones?
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Certainly some bloggers on MJ are partisan. But I am a fan of Kevin Drum's blog. He is a wonk of the highest order and likes to poke holes in liberal arguments. So even though he leans left, his numbers are never outrageous lies. NRO would make news if they ever wrote a post that DIDN'T contain outrageous lies.
 
Holy moly. Open enrollment just opened up at my company. I'm currently paying $2600 per year for my son and I. If I want to keep the same plan (kinda sorta, there is one slightly better benefit), my new premium is $4800. That's an 85% increase. I'm opting to go with a lesser plan that has significantly reduced benefits for $2300.

Thanks to the geniuses on this board I now understand that this is Mitt Romney's fault.
 
Obama repeatedly made a couple of key promises about ACA that have proved to be completely false:

1. You can keep your health plan and your doctor if you like it. ACA provides explicitly that plans existing before implementation would be grandfathered in. Then, the Administration tweaks the rules so that if any change had been made to the plan since implementation, no matter how minor, the plan could not be grandfathered. That resulted in hundreds of thousands -if not millions- of people having the plans they liked cancelled.

2. The average family will save $2500 in premiums. Premiums are going up, not down. Further, healthcare spending is expected to rise. That cost is going to be borne by the people who are paying for insurance so there's no way premiums are going to go down anytime soon.

So, ACA is already a failure because it didn't live up to the key promises the President made about it. It's really as simple as that.
 
Ziggurat said:
The information is available from many sources.
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And yet, look at the ones you chose to use. hm.

Ziggurat said:
Newton Bits gave another above. It's not a secret that Obama lied about people's ability to keep their existing policies. The complaint is coming in from all quarters, from both the left and the right. At this point, if you don't know that you're either not paying attention or you're in denial.
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:id:

Ziggurat said:
But I am curious: did you believe the lie when he told it?
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I had no opinion on the matter when it was first told. As I said back on page 1, It made sense that either some plans were not compliant OR insurance companies are changing their plans in light of the ACA.

Indeed, the signs of the problem have been out there for a while. However, a little research shows that Obama's statement is perfectly true for most Americans.
The large majority of Americans are not affected by these changes, since they get their coverage through comprehensive employer plans or Medicare or other government programs. But about 15 million Americans, or 5 percent of the population
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Given the 50-75% numbers in the NBC article:
Four sources deeply involved in the Affordable Care Act tell NBC NEWS that 50 to 75 percent of the 14 million consumers who buy their insurance individually can expect to receive a “cancellation” letter or the equivalent over the next year because their existing policies don’t meet the standards mandated by the new health care law.
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That's 2.5 to 3.75%* of Americans who fall into this category. That means Obama's statement was better than 96%* accurate.

So, did Obama lie because he ignored the edge case even though what he said was true for the nearly all Americans? Okay, sure, if it makes you feel better.




* This is all assuming the estimates are accurate. We don't have real numbers yet.
 
Ziggurat said:
Funny how that keeps happening. Not "ha ha!" funny, though.
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I am tired of conservatives trying to pin evil intent on President Obama in the past 5 years.

President Obama explained that he didn’t know about guns going to Mexico under Fast and Furious. He also explained he didn’t know about the IRS targeting Tea Party groups. Likewise about the security concerns for our embassy personnel in Benghazi. Also he didn’t know that the sign up website for AHC was not ready or people could not keep their own insurance.

Don’t you conservatives get it yet!? He doesn’t know anything! He really doesn’t know anything!

So lay off.
 
Upchurch said:
And yet, look at the ones you chose to use. hm.


:id:


I had no opinion on the matter when it was first told. As I said back on page 1, It made sense that either some plans were not compliant OR insurance companies are changing their plans in light of the ACA.

Indeed, the signs of the problem have been out there for a while. However, a little research shows that Obama's statement is perfectly true for most Americans.

Given the 50-75% numbers in the NBC article:

That's 2.5 to 3.75%* of Americans who fall into this category. That means Obama's statement was better than 96%* accurate.

So, did Obama lie because he ignored the edge case even though what he said was true for the nearly all Americans? Okay, sure, if it makes you feel better.




* This is all assuming the estimates are accurate. We don't have real numbers yet.
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The truth was: If you like your plan and your doctor, you may have to change it, especially if you are buying it on your own and it doesn't meet the requirement of the ACA.

What he said (repeatedly and unequivocally) was: "If you like your plan and you like your doctor, you can keep it; you won't have to do a thing."

That was a political lie, plain and simple.
 
Upchurch said:
I had no opinion on the matter when it was first told.
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Why? Because you didn't even care if it was true or not?

That's 2.5 to 3.75%* of Americans who fall into this category. That means Obama's statement was better than 96%* accurate.

So, did Obama lie because he ignored the edge case even though what he said was true for the nearly all Americans? Okay, sure, if it makes you feel better.
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He denied the existence of what you call "edge cases". Does the fact that he only lied about what would happen to millions of people rather than hundreds of millions make the lie excusable? Sure, if it makes you feel better.
 
Upchurch said:
A lie for > 4% of people, maybe.
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And how many people couldn't buy insurance because of pre-existing conditions? That was only a few percent of the population. Yet that was central to justifying the entire ACA to begin with.

Your excuses are pathetic and transparent.
 
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